TC
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Post by TC on Aug 25, 2023 11:59:53 GMT -5
Is "involving" the same as "caused by" or "as a result of?" Sounds very different to me. Sounds pretty similar to me. I don't think the CDC is juicing the numbers with "guy with COVID walked down the street and got hit by a bus".
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Aug 25, 2023 22:32:05 GMT -5
Is "involving" the same as "caused by" or "as a result of?" Sounds very different to me. There may be a distinction, but does it really matter? Suppose the language was "contributed to by", which could well be similar to involving. Aren't these results still extremely alarming?
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 25, 2023 22:38:30 GMT -5
Is "involving" the same as "caused by" or "as a result of?" Sounds very different to me. There may be a distinction, but does it really matter? Suppose the language was "contributed to by", which could well be similar to involving. Aren't these results still extremely alarming? It depends upon whether or not you believe at all in reality. If your preferred garb is a MAGA/tin foil hat, it's all just the flu because stupidity is now deadly and virulent.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Aug 28, 2023 12:16:37 GMT -5
There may be a distinction, but does it really matter? Suppose the language was "contributed to by", which could well be similar to involving. Aren't these results still extremely alarming? It depends upon whether or not you believe at all in reality. If your preferred garb is a MAGA/tin foil hat, it's all just the flu because stupidity is now deadly and virulent. This is true, but I viewed this as a legitimate question by tgo that deserved a response.
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tgo
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Post by tgo on Aug 28, 2023 16:27:10 GMT -5
Is "involving" the same as "caused by" or "as a result of?" Sounds very different to me. There may be a distinction, but does it really matter? Suppose the language was "contributed to by", which could well be similar to involving. Aren't these results still extremely alarming? COVID is much more contagious than the flu correct? If i was in a car accident during one of the peaks of transmission there is a very high chance that I had it without knowing it. If i then went to the hospital for 4 days before dying, there was then a much much higher chance that i would now have it. I would then be listed in the column of this chart as a covid death. i am not going to take the time to go back and find them but i saw incredible stats about the percentage of people in hospital care who had covid active in their system, what percentage of them went to the hospital for that as opposed to their appendix bursting? i dont recall, but that is a key data point. Obviously a lot of people died from COVID, how many more than the flu? probably a lot but this stat doesn't tell me that. Similarly, the post further up the thread about the people who were and are still not ok with the crimes committed against the education and development of the generation in school at the time should be ok with it because life expectancy dropped and without these draconian policies it would have been worse. The stat used to make this spurious claim is also suspect since - as far as i can tell - it is not taking in to account the increase in suicides due to the lock downs and increases in things like cancer that might not have been deadly if caught earlier but because fear mongers did what they do best, people skipped dr's appointments and check ups etc or the diminished life expectancy that today's children have due to the impact on their education among other things. If people want to find stats that help them to clear their consciences for what they did to children and society at large in response to the COVID Pandemic then in my book they need to do much better. I remember what they did and do not forgive them. In all policy discussions both sides exaggerate and lie and then get busy with patting themselves on the back. This makes it almost impossible for either side to trust each other going forward. Using exaggerated stats and things with obviously holes in them to prove a point will get your supporters pumped up and push the middle and your opposition further away. I feel this is a very difficult to solve problem in our society not just when discussing COVID. I try to point it out when i can and sometimes i am shown that there is back up beyond what i am seeing but most of the time instead the rabid in the crowd will try to shout me down saying if you question the party line then you are irredeemable and corrupt. this is nearly universal, i am just as disappointed when people i would otherwise agree with do it. of course that is what those in power want, to keep us in our own tribes viewing those who we disagree with as reprehensible.
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hoyajinx
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Post by hoyajinx on Aug 28, 2023 16:44:25 GMT -5
There may be a distinction, but does it really matter? Suppose the language was "contributed to by", which could well be similar to involving. Aren't these results still extremely alarming? COVID is much more contagious than the flu correct? If i was in a car accident during one of the peaks of transmission there is a very high chance that I had it without knowing it. If i then went to the hospital for 4 days before dying, there was then a much much higher chance that i would now have it. I would then be listed in the column of this chart as a covid death. i am not going to take the time to go back and find them but i saw incredible stats about the percentage of people in hospital care who had covid active in their system, what percentage of them went to the hospital for that as opposed to their appendix bursting? i dont recall, but that is a key data point. Obviously a lot of people died from COVID, how many more than the flu? probably a lot but this stat doesn't tell me that. Similarly, the post further up the thread about the people who were and are still not ok with the crimes committed against the education and development of the generation in school at the time should be ok with it because life expectancy dropped and without these draconian policies it would have been worse. The stat used to make this spurious claim is also suspect since - as far as i can tell - it is not taking in to account the increase in suicides due to the lock downs and increases in things like cancer that might not have been deadly if caught earlier but because fear mongers did what they do best, people skipped dr's appointments and check ups etc or the diminished life expectancy that today's children have due to the impact on their education among other things. If people want to find stats that help them to clear their consciences for what they did to children and society at large in response to the COVID Pandemic then in my book they need to do much better. I remember what they did and do not forgive them. In all policy discussions both sides exaggerate and lie and then get busy with patting themselves on the back. This makes it almost impossible for either side to trust each other going forward. Using exaggerated stats and things with obviously holes in them to prove a point will get your supporters pumped up and push the middle and your opposition further away. I feel this is a very difficult to solve problem in our society not just when discussing COVID. I try to point it out when i can and sometimes i am shown that there is back up beyond what i am seeing but most of the time instead the rabid in the crowd will try to shout me down saying if you question the party line then you are irredeemable and corrupt. this is nearly universal, i am just as disappointed when people i would otherwise agree with do it. of course that is what those in power want, to keep us in our own tribes viewing those who we disagree with as reprehensible. I am having trouble reconciling your third and fifth paragraphs. They seem at odds with each other.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Aug 28, 2023 19:57:11 GMT -5
Honestly, this parsing of "with it" and "because of it" is all about denying SARS-CoV-2 was a problem.
I lived through the worst of this sh!t, personally taking care of over 1000 patients with it with 3 partners in our hospital over 100 days with only 3 days off each. Sh!t is real and 1000X worse than the flu. We should all be thankful for those who developed effective vaccines and therapeutics. Everything else is window dressing.
That said, the latest variants have caused less severe disease but there is early evidence that some of the new variants are not so kind, especially to our immune compromised and elderly populace.
The best advice is given often by one of my colleagues:
To lower your risk:
Be up to date with boosters
Wear a high quality, well-fitting N95 respirator or KN95 mask in indoor crowded settings
Ventilate indoor spaces & use indoor air filtration
Get tested & treated promptly if eligible.
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hoyajinx
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Post by hoyajinx on Aug 29, 2023 7:31:23 GMT -5
It depends upon whether or not you believe at all in reality. If your preferred garb is a MAGA/tin foil hat, it's all just the flu because stupidity is now deadly and virulent. This is true, but I viewed this as a legitimate question by tgo that deserved a response. That was a very generous interpretation of the intent of that question.
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tgo
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Post by tgo on Aug 29, 2023 10:43:11 GMT -5
That said, the latest variants have caused less severe disease but there is early evidence that some of the new variants are not so kind, especially to our immune compromised and elderly populace. then help those who need protection and are at high risk and stop using stats that cherry pick data to make it seem like the damage done by pandemic policies were worth the cost to the other 95% of our population.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Sept 10, 2023 2:22:40 GMT -5
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hoyajinx
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Post by hoyajinx on Sept 21, 2023 10:57:28 GMT -5
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Sept 21, 2023 14:50:00 GMT -5
The self-proclaimed "pro-life" party is actually a death cult.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 5, 2023 5:39:31 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 5, 2023 5:50:42 GMT -5
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Oct 6, 2023 19:41:42 GMT -5
I sent an article about the Nobel Prize being awarded to two scientists whose work led to the development of the mRNA COVID vaccines to our doctor friend in Maryland whose crazy wife and sister in law didn't want their mother to receive blood from anyone who had been vaccinated, and asked him whether the Nobel Committee is part of the global conspiracy to poison the world.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 2, 2023 0:27:18 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 10, 2023 9:12:11 GMT -5
Two informative threads that should affect our behavior over the next few weeks.
Not to mention but getting an updated XBB booster is an excellent idea.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 11, 2023 19:42:04 GMT -5
Two informative threads that should affect our behavior over the next few weeks. Not to mention but getting an updated XBB booster is an excellent idea. Boosters? We don't need no stinking boosters.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 11, 2023 20:22:19 GMT -5
Two informative threads that should affect our behavior over the next few weeks. Not to mention but getting an updated XBB booster is an excellent idea. Boosters? We don't need no stinking boosters. This time you might be right… JN.1 seems to be pretty evasive vs the XBB booster. Time to carry that mask with you for crowded spaces outside home.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 12, 2023 0:43:00 GMT -5
Boosters? We don't need no stinking boosters. This time you might be right… JN.1 seems to be pretty evasive vs the XBB booster. Time to carry that mask with you for crowded spaces outside home. And yet despite such a seemingly high infection rate, mortality is not only far lower than any previous winter of the pandemic, it doesn't really even appear to be spiking relative to the past few months: covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_weeklydeaths_select_00Understanding why that should be the case is pretty crucial for grasping the underlying dynamics at play.
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