hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 7, 2021 7:45:26 GMT -5
Not to insert facts into this discussion , but - If we play all 20 conference games, and we win the 3 missed games against the 3 teams that finished below us - we finish 10-10(certainly a realistic possibility - although the COVID break did seem to give us the time to turn our season around). If St. John's plays the game they missed - UConn - a very real chance they finish 10-10. Yes Anderson has done it in 2 years. Of course he had a few years head coaching experience to start with. We are better this year than last, and have a strong recruiting class coming in. Let's see where the 2 programs are 2 years from now. As it stands now St, John's will have a promising returning team with the top scorer in the conference plus the best frosh in the league... If you had a choice which would you rather have? I agree that it has to be played out on the court though but on paper, it's hard to make the case that they aren't further along than Gtown... Champagnie is gone. Long gone. He would be gone if it were just him but he has an identical twin that is doing the identical thing in the ACC (minus the winning). They both will declare. StJs will still be good because I believe Annae-Wusu and Alexander will make huge jumps but neither will be the force that Champagnie is currently.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 7, 2021 9:11:23 GMT -5
But Mullin made a tourney appearance in his 4 years plus he won 3 BET games so I'm not sure how St. John's being further along than Gtown in the recent past to present hasn't always worked out... I didn't say it never worked out, just not always. Given how much Mullin's recruiting classes were hyped I expected multiple Sweet Sixteen trips. Seems to me you’re moving the the point of the discussion which was who appears to be in a better position for success right now Gtown or St. John’s...
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 7, 2021 9:14:03 GMT -5
As it stands now St, John's will have a promising returning team with the top scorer in the conference plus the best frosh in the league... If you had a choice which would you rather have? I agree that it has to be played out on the court though but on paper, it's hard to make the case that they aren't further along than Gtown... Champagnie is gone. Long gone. He would be gone if it were just him but he has an identical twin that is doing the identical thing in the ACC (minus the winning). They both will declare. StJs will still be good because I believe Annae-Wusu and Alexander will make huge jumps but neither will be the force that Champagnie is currently. Not sure what one has to do with the other considering they chose different schools coming out of HS.... You could be right but I haven’t seen Justin or Julian on any mock drafts for the upcoming draft, I’ve seen Julian listed on a top 100 list though...
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 7, 2021 10:33:13 GMT -5
I didn't say it never worked out, just not always. Given how much Mullin's recruiting classes were hyped I expected multiple Sweet Sixteen trips. Seems to me you’re moving the the point of the discussion which was who appears to be in a better position for success right now Gtown or St. John’s... I'm not moving anything, I was directly addressing your point about Mullin and the times that St. John's had a stellar recruiting class, was ready to move into the top realm of the Big East - and then fell flat on its proverbial face. And yes Mullin did have some success, but also some dramatic failures. St. John's is a little ahead of us right now, so yes they are in better position. My original point was that I don't think they are head and shoulders above us. And that Anderson taking them to 10-9 in his second year is similar to Ewing taking us to 9-9 in his second year. Our trajectory swung back down last year obviously, for a number of reasons, some coaching and some not. Our trajectory moved back up this year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 10:46:02 GMT -5
In terms of raw talent where would you guys rank every BE team at full strength?
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Mar 7, 2021 10:56:50 GMT -5
I cannot rank them and think that this is the weakest the conference has been since its rebirth. Some due to injury, some to youth and some to the failure of certain players to have a year that was anticipated. I can see any of 5 teams winning this tournament, with the dark horse for me being St. Johns. Based upon yesterday's no-show, I cannot get excited about the Hoyas chances of playing on Thursday. Ewing has a terrible record against Marquette and we just seem to turn them into great shooters every time we play. Wild card is Bile.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 11:53:44 GMT -5
I would go:
1) Nova
2) Uconn
3) Creighton
4) Seton Hall
5) Marquette
6) St john's
7) Xavier
8) Providence
9) Georgetown
10) Butler
11) Depaul
Tier 1: Nova clearly has the most guys. UConn has nice talent and depth plus a lotto pick. Creighton pretty much solid across the board, similar to UConn, but Zeg isn't Bouk.
Tier 2: Seton Hall is the most talented in this group but Bryce not being Bryce hurts. They have really solid starting 5 and Samuels has played well this year. Marquette has some studs. Outside shooting has been a major issue but 2 top 50 kids and a solid Senior core says they should be better. St John's has arguably the best player/scorer in the league and the best Frosh. Supporting cast is solid (similar to Xavier) with many guys who are capable of getting hot and making plays but somewhat inconsistent. Xavier all league guard and big. Supporting staff is solid and you can argue with Johnson they have more talent than St John's but 3 point shooting is worse so I go edge Johnnies. Providence all league guard and big, similar to X, but supporting staff isn't as good.
Tier 3: Georgetown is probably the best in this group. They have some nice guys, descent balance, but no all league performers. Butler's makeup is similar to Georgetown, balanced, but lacking in standout players. DePaul is DePaul.
What do you guys think?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 12:14:17 GMT -5
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 7, 2021 12:14:58 GMT -5
Seems to me you’re moving the the point of the discussion which was who appears to be in a better position for success right now Gtown or St. John’s... I'm not moving anything, I was directly addressing your point about Mullin and the times that St. John's had a stellar recruiting class, was ready to move into the top realm of the Big East - and then fell flat on its proverbial face. And yes Mullin did have some success, but also some dramatic failures. St. John's is a little ahead of us right now, so yes they are in better position. My original point was that I don't think they are head and shoulders above us. And that Anderson taking them to 10-9 in his second year is similar to Ewing taking us to 9-9 in his second year. Our trajectory swung back down last year obviously, for a number of reasons, some coaching and some not. Our trajectory moved back up this year. I'm not sure why you brought Mullin into the discussion, this was about where the two programs stand right now... No one ever stated that St. John's was head & shoulders above Gtown, folks made the point that they appear to be in a better position right which you agree with so it's all good Frazier... Although I'm not sold that Gtown's trajectory has moved much this season especially since what the final roster will look like is unclear at this time... P.S. - After spending much of yesterday getting calls & texts from gloating Uconn fans I am a little down right now...
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 7, 2021 12:27:53 GMT -5
Oldfan wrote: Apparently some relatively reliable sources are saying a resignation is coming tomorrow - don’t hold me to it, just sharing what I’ve heard
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 7, 2021 12:29:03 GMT -5
I would go: 1) Nova 2) Uconn 3) Creighton 4) Seton Hall 5) Marquette 6) St john's 7) Xavier 8) Providence 9) Georgetown 10) Butler 11) Depaul Tier 1: Nova clearly has the most guys. UConn has nice talent and depth plus a lotto pick. Creighton pretty much solid across the board, similar to UConn, but Zeg isn't Bouk. Tier 2: Seton Hall is the most talented in this group but Bryce not being Bryce hurts. They have really solid starting 5 and Samuels has played well this year. Marquette has some studs. Outside shooting has been a major issue but 2 top 50 kids and a solid Senior core says they should be better. St John's has arguably the best player/scorer in the league and the best Frosh. Supporting cast is solid (similar to Xavier) with many guys who are capable of getting hot and making plays but somewhat inconsistent. Xavier all league guard and big. Supporting staff is solid and you can argue with Johnson they have more talent than St John's but 3 point shooting is worse so I go edge Johnnies. Providence all league guard and big, similar to X, but supporting staff isn't as good. Tier 3: Georgetown is probably the best in this group. They have some nice guys, descent balance but no all league performers. Butler's makeup is similar to Georgetown. Balanced but lacking in standout players. DePaul is DePaul. What do you guys think? This hits it right on the nose in my view, it'll be interesting to see what these rosters will look like in July...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 13:09:25 GMT -5
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 7, 2021 13:14:49 GMT -5
Wow, surprised to see Blair make HM and not Pickett.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 7, 2021 13:16:06 GMT -5
Wow, surprised to see Blair make HM and not Pickett. Also pretty clear that Big East coaches aren’t impressed by the Hoyas’ newcomers this season.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 7, 2021 13:19:30 GMT -5
Wow, surprised to see Blair make HM and not Pickett. I think it's a positional thing as there are alot of powerfowards Mamu and Robison Earle being tied. And some how Freemantle squeaks in there based on raw garbage numbers. And they didn't even really bother having the center position other than Nate Watson.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Mar 7, 2021 13:20:09 GMT -5
I would go: 1) Nova 2) Uconn 3) Creighton 4) Seton Hall 5) Marquette 6) St john's 7) Xavier 8) Providence 9) Georgetown 10) Butler 11) Depaul Tier 1: Nova clearly has the most guys. UConn has nice talent and depth plus a lotto pick. Creighton pretty much solid across the board, similar to UConn, but Zeg isn't Bouk. Tier 2: Seton Hall is the most talented in this group but Bryce not being Bryce hurts. They have really solid starting 5 and Samuels has played well this year. Marquette has some studs. Outside shooting has been a major issue but 2 top 50 kids and a solid Senior core says they should be better. St John's has arguably the best player/scorer in the league and the best Frosh. Supporting cast is solid (similar to Xavier) with many guys who are capable of getting hot and making plays but somewhat inconsistent. Xavier all league guard and big. Supporting staff is solid and you can argue with Johnson they have more talent than St John's but 3 point shooting is worse so I go edge Johnnies. Providence all league guard and big, similar to X, but supporting staff isn't as good. Tier 3: Georgetown is probably the best in this group. They have some nice guys, descent balance, but no all league performers. Butler's makeup is similar to Georgetown, balanced, but lacking in standout players. DePaul is DePaul. What do you guys think? Love this idea. I'd go: 1) Nova 2) Creighton 3) UConn (I think these two can go in either order, but I like Creighton's 2-5 better than UConn's) 4) Seton Hall 5) Xavier 6) Marquette (these last two can also be swapped) 7) DePaul (ok... let me explain down below) 8) Johnnies (Great top 2 in Posh and Champagnie and I like Dunn a lot, but the rest I'm not sold on like at all) 9) Providence 10) Hoyas 11) Butler (I'm not counting Scooby Johnson, but if I did they'd be a lot higher. That kid is gonna be a star) I think that DePaul team has NCAA tournament level talent. Solely talent, nothing else. Charlie Moore is an elite guard, I think Freeman-Liberty is awesome, I think Weems has NBA potential (if he was anywhere else), I think Salnave and McCauley are very good like 4/5 options, and I think David Jones is a borderline top 100 kid. Also, Pauly Paulicap has a great name is is a quality inside grad transfer. I just think they fit really poorly together as they don't have shooters and Leitao is an absolutely atrocious coach who needs to go. I think the Hoyas are pretty solidly at this mark. No elite guy, but some solid pieces.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Mar 7, 2021 13:27:28 GMT -5
Dante missing all freshman team for Colby Jones and Adama Sanogo is an awful decision
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 7, 2021 13:35:14 GMT -5
I'm not moving anything, I was directly addressing your point about Mullin and the times that St. John's had a stellar recruiting class, was ready to move into the top realm of the Big East - and then fell flat on its proverbial face. And yes Mullin did have some success, but also some dramatic failures. St. John's is a little ahead of us right now, so yes they are in better position. My original point was that I don't think they are head and shoulders above us. And that Anderson taking them to 10-9 in his second year is similar to Ewing taking us to 9-9 in his second year. Our trajectory swung back down last year obviously, for a number of reasons, some coaching and some not. Our trajectory moved back up this year. I'm not sure why you brought Mullin into the discussion, this was about where the two programs stand right now... No one ever stated that St. John's was head & shoulders above Gtown, folks made the point that they appear to be in a better position right which you agree with so it's all good Frazier... Although I'm not sold that Gtown's trajectory has moved much this season especially since what the final roster will look like is unclear at this time... P.S. - After spending much of yesterday getting calls & texts from gloating Uconn fans I am a little down right now... I feel your pain. Used to be the same for me with Syracuse.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 7, 2021 13:38:55 GMT -5
Dante missing all freshman team for Colby Jones and Adama Sanogo is an awful decision Everybody except a few Hoyas fans realize Dante’s not very good.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Mar 8, 2021 14:01:45 GMT -5
Dante missing all freshman team for Colby Jones and Adama Sanogo is an awful decision Everybody except a few Hoyas fans realize Dante’s not very good. There is no award for biggest Edited on a message board.
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