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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Apr 22, 2020 14:59:01 GMT -5
I’m cautiously optimistic we’ll beat this expectation, but can’t find any fault in this writer’s analysis. Truth hurts
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Apr 22, 2020 15:54:09 GMT -5
Not one mention of Morko who is our 2nd best returning player. Having Butler ranked above us is criminal.... Herein lies the problem. It's hard to project us having that much success in the Big East when Pickett is our 2nd best player (not sure who you put as 1 - McClung? Wahab?). I don't mean that as a knock against Pickett, but he didn't have a great season, despite some decent games at the end. He's improved on the defensive end, but he has largely been stagnant on offense and been inefficient for 3 years. I would be happy to be wrong, if Pickett makes a big jump for senior year, but I think it's more likely we get more of what we have gotten the last 3 years. 10.2pts 6.3rbs 7.1pts. 5.2rbs One of these is Morko and one is Brendan Bailey....I'm not saying Morko is great but he deserves a mention....hell Aaron Thompson got a mention....and the bigger numbers are Morko
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Apr 22, 2020 17:41:21 GMT -5
I wonder if UConn gets added to this next year? Problem is there’s only 10 B12 teams.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 24, 2020 11:40:36 GMT -5
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Apr 24, 2020 15:25:16 GMT -5
I am already sick of UConn again
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 24, 2020 15:27:02 GMT -5
Just puts us down another peg in the conference. 🦠😷🦠
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 26, 2020 14:30:29 GMT -5
Herein lies the problem. It's hard to project us having that much success in the Big East when Pickett is our 2nd best player (not sure who you put as 1 - McClung? Wahab?). I don't mean that as a knock against Pickett, but he didn't have a great season, despite some decent games at the end. He's improved on the defensive end, but he has largely been stagnant on offense and been inefficient for 3 years. I would be happy to be wrong, if Pickett makes a big jump for senior year, but I think it's more likely we get more of what we have gotten the last 3 years. 10.2pts 6.3rbs 7.1pts. 5.2rbs One of these is Morko and one is Brendan Bailey....I'm not saying Morko is great but he deserves a mention....hell Aaron Thompson got a mention....and the bigger numbers are Morko Brendan Bailey is a better offensive player than Pickett. His O rating was 112 to Pickett's 95.3, which is a big difference. Bailey is a better shooter and turns it over way less. They are similar rebounders, and Pickett gets to the line more. I can't speak to defense.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 26, 2020 15:21:15 GMT -5
10.2pts 6.3rbs 7.1pts. 5.2rbs One of these is Morko and one is Brendan Bailey....I'm not saying Morko is great but he deserves a mention....hell Aaron Thompson got a mention....and the bigger numbers are Morko Brendan Bailey is a better offensive player than Pickett. His O rating was 112 to Pickett's 95.3, which is a big difference. Bailey is a better shooter and turns it over way less. They are similar rebounders, and Pickett gets to the line more. I can't speak to defense. Bailey May be more efficient, but he’s not a greater offensive threat than Pickett....Picketts superiority in the rebounding department is bigger than the difference between them as offensive players. Picket is also a much better defender. But anywho that wasn’t even the point of the comparison...
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on May 1, 2020 9:11:06 GMT -5
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Post by RockawayHoya on May 1, 2020 11:15:07 GMT -5
"We know this much: Villanova will be excellent. Creighton will be very good. (Though maybe not as very-good as they might have been had Ty-Shon Alexander stuck around.) Ed Cooley’s Providence will almost certainly overachieve. DePaul will be bad. Other than that, though? Who knows? Teams 3 through 9 on this list could easily swap positions come next February, and we wouldn’t be surprised." Sadly, it's hard to argue he'll be wrong. Best case scenario at this point, we overachieve and maybe get up to that 6th-7th spot and challenge for a NIT bid.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on May 1, 2020 12:45:51 GMT -5
"We know this much: Villanova will be excellent. Creighton will be very good. (Though maybe not as very-good as they might have been had Ty-Shon Alexander stuck around.) Ed Cooley’s Providence will almost certainly overachieve. DePaul will be bad. Other than that, though? Who knows? Teams 3 through 9 on this list could easily swap positions come next February, and we wouldn’t be surprised." Sadly, it's hard to argue he'll be wrong. Best case scenario at this point, we overachieve and maybe get up to that 6th-7th spot and challenge for a NIT bid. I get circumstances have changed but if this is how it plays out and after four years of the Ewing era the following would be true: - 0 seasons above .500 in conference (3 below .500) - 0 NCAA appearances - 0 BET wins (3 times in the play-in game) - 0 20 win seasons - 0 Top 75 recruits - 1 NIT appearance (first round loss) Whatever your expectations were for Ewing back in ‘16, this resume would fall short and would be grounds for dismissal. Whether or not you give him a pass for ‘19-20 and ‘20-22 as a result of the departures is another subject, but in a vacuum that 4 year track record would be pretty disastrous for even the most ardent Ewing supporters. The outlier of Depaul aside, Kevin Willard at Seton Hall is the only example I can think of that was retained with a similar resume (though he did win 21 games in Year 2 and an NIT game). I’m cautiously optimistic next year we can surprise some folks in what will be a tight conference 3rd-11th (kinda like 2 years ago), but if we don’t, I agree that ‘21-22 would be Ewing’s hot seat year.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on May 1, 2020 12:56:33 GMT -5
Although I can understand the lack of neutral's optimism about the Hoyas 2020-21 chances, I wouldn't put too much weight in predictions at this point. Heck, its likely we haven't even finalized our roster yet.
Fact is, even after the mass defection, Pat put a competitive team on the floor which won multiple games against ranked opponents (Creighton, Butler) and was playing in an absolutely loaded BE. The wheels only really came off when Mac and Omer got hurt.
We may be a bit of a jumble of players to start off with next year, but we will certainly have more balance. It won't just be Pickett in the PF/SF/Swing role next season--we will also have Chudier, Jamari and Kobe who can fill in there. We add guard depth with the Harrises and Beard.
We lose Omer, but at times Q was a better player and hopefully he is more polished next season. Tim should be improved and perhaps we'll see some rim running from Malcolm too.
Our biggest loss may be Allen--but hopefully Jalen Harris replaces much of the veteran savvy.
The big question will be Mac. Is he returning--and if so, will he be fully healthy? As we saw last year, a healthy and engaged Mac is an enormous weapon. Mac playing with one leg...not so much.
Anyways--I'm not ready to write the group off quite yet.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on May 1, 2020 13:05:35 GMT -5
"We know this much: Villanova will be excellent. Creighton will be very good. (Though maybe not as very-good as they might have been had Ty-Shon Alexander stuck around.) Ed Cooley’s Providence will almost certainly overachieve. DePaul will be bad. Other than that, though? Who knows? Teams 3 through 9 on this list could easily swap positions come next February, and we wouldn’t be surprised." Sadly, it's hard to argue he'll be wrong. Best case scenario at this point, we overachieve and maybe get up to that 6th-7th spot and challenge for a NIT bid. I get circumstances have changed but if this is how it plays out and after four years of the Ewing era the following would be true: - 0 seasons above .500 in conference (3 below .500) - 0 NCAA appearances - 0 BET wins (3 times in the play-in game) - 0 20 win seasons - 0 Top 75 recruits - 1 NIT appearance (first round loss) Whatever your expectations were for Ewing back in ‘16, this resume would fall short and would be grounds for dismissal. Whether or not you give him a pass for ‘19-20 and ‘20-22 as a result of the departures is another subject, but in a vacuum that 4 year track record would be pretty disastrous for even the most ardent Ewing supporters. The outlier of Depaul aside, Kevin Willard at Seton Hall is the only example I can think of that was retained with a similar resume (though he did win 21 games in Year 2 and an NIT game). I’m cautiously optimistic next year we can surprise some folks in what will be a tight conference 3rd-11th (kinda like 2 years ago), but if we don’t, I agree that ‘21-22 would be Ewing’s hot seat year. We’re not even officially at the end of year 3 yet you’re already counting the results of year 4. Makes sense.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on May 1, 2020 13:09:06 GMT -5
I get circumstances have changed but if this is how it plays out and after four years of the Ewing era the following would be true: - 0 seasons above .500 in conference (3 below .500) - 0 NCAA appearances - 0 BET wins (3 times in the play-in game) - 0 20 win seasons - 0 Top 75 recruits - 1 NIT appearance (first round loss) Whatever your expectations were for Ewing back in ‘16, this resume would fall short and would be grounds for dismissal. Whether or not you give him a pass for ‘19-20 and ‘20-22 as a result of the departures is another subject, but in a vacuum that 4 year track record would be pretty disastrous for even the most ardent Ewing supporters. The outlier of Depaul aside, Kevin Willard at Seton Hall is the only example I can think of that was retained with a similar resume (though he did win 21 games in Year 2 and an NIT game). I’m cautiously optimistic next year we can surprise some folks in what will be a tight conference 3rd-11th (kinda like 2 years ago), but if we don’t, I agree that ‘21-22 would be Ewing’s hot seat year. We’re not even officially at the end of year 3 yet you’re already counting the results of year 4. Makes sense. I guess words like “if” and “would” within the post are lost on you. It was a reply to the original poster who shared the projections and then the reply saying he thought we could maybe get 6th or 7th.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on May 1, 2020 13:24:59 GMT -5
We’re not even officially at the end of year 3 yet you’re already counting the results of year 4. Makes sense. I guess words like “if” and “would” within the post are lost on you. It was a reply to the original poster who shared the projections and then the reply saying he thought we could maybe get 6th or 7th. If, would usage isn’t lost on me. The whole exercise is fruitless and still assumes a lot of unknowns. How about this: if Ewing wins the next 15 straight national championships, then he would likely the best coach of all time. See? No point.
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Post by RockawayHoya on May 1, 2020 14:49:32 GMT -5
"We know this much: Villanova will be excellent. Creighton will be very good. (Though maybe not as very-good as they might have been had Ty-Shon Alexander stuck around.) Ed Cooley’s Providence will almost certainly overachieve. DePaul will be bad. Other than that, though? Who knows? Teams 3 through 9 on this list could easily swap positions come next February, and we wouldn’t be surprised." Sadly, it's hard to argue he'll be wrong. Best case scenario at this point, we overachieve and maybe get up to that 6th-7th spot and challenge for a NIT bid. I get circumstances have changed but if this is how it plays out and after four years of the Ewing era the following would be true: - 0 seasons above .500 in conference (3 below .500) - 0 NCAA appearances - 0 BET wins (3 times in the play-in game) - 0 20 win seasons - 0 Top 75 recruits - 1 NIT appearance (first round loss) Whatever your expectations were for Ewing back in ‘16, this resume would fall short and would be grounds for dismissal. Whether or not you give him a pass for ‘19-20 and ‘20-22 as a result of the departures is another subject, but in a vacuum that 4 year track record would be pretty disastrous for even the most ardent Ewing supporters. The outlier of Depaul aside, Kevin Willard at Seton Hall is the only example I can think of that was retained with a similar resume (though he did win 21 games in Year 2 and an NIT game). I’m cautiously optimistic next year we can surprise some folks in what will be a tight conference 3rd-11th (kinda like 2 years ago), but if we don’t, I agree that ‘21-22 would be Ewing’s hot seat year. I would say '20-21 is the hot seat year. There needs to be substantial progress shown this upcoming season or it's basically DNR as far as our recruiting goes for this group. Again, not saying it can't be done or that there's no hope for improvement. But we are going to have to see some considerable upticks in player development and scheme the next 6-9 months compared to the last 3 years to get there. My confidence in that happening is pretty low with the current staff as presently constructed.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 1, 2020 18:06:56 GMT -5
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on May 1, 2020 18:20:52 GMT -5
Fact is, even after the mass defection, Pat put a competitive team on the floor which won multiple games against ranked opponents (Creighton, Butler) and was playing in an absolutely loaded BE. The wheels only really came off when Mac and Omer got hurt. This is not meant to call you out specifically I am just sick of this point that keeps getting brought up over and over that somehow the injuries derailed a potential good season. We went 2-5 in Big East games with both Mac and Yurt. We went 2-6 in games with just Mac and 3-9 in games with just Yurt. While you didn't say it, many others keep repeating this years team was tournament bound if Mac or Omer don't get hurt. There is nothing to back that up in actual results. The transfers derailed what could've been a "Coach is free from the hot seat discussion for years" type of year.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on May 1, 2020 18:29:25 GMT -5
Fact is, even after the mass defection, Pat put a competitive team on the floor which won multiple games against ranked opponents (Creighton, Butler) and was playing in an absolutely loaded BE. The wheels only really came off when Mac and Omer got hurt. This is not meant to call you out specifically I am just sick of this point that keeps getting brought up over and over that somehow the injuries derailed a potential good season. We went 2-5 in Big East games with both Mac and Yurt. We went 2-6 in games with just Mac and 3-9 in games with just Yurt. While you didn't say it, many others keep repeating this years team was tournament bound if Mac or Omer don't get hurt. There is nothing to back that up in actual results. The transfers derailed what could've been a "Coach is free from the hot seat discussion for years" type of year. Forgetting that you’re cherry picking and they were out in different games... Nothing to back it up but the analysis of people who understand how actual college sports work. People who understand the nuances of roster balance and minute allocation. People who can see with their own two eyes what tired legs look like and what they don’t. People who understand the distinct differences between having 5 capable bodies versus 6 versus 7. People who can see with their own two eyes players on the floor playing hurt because they had no replacements. People who understand what an athletes body feels like during the off-season, versus during preseason versus early in the season versus late in the season. People who understand strategy and how a diminished roster size affects strategy. People who, you know, know how to properly weight your “actual results”, with numbers and all. There are stats/ numbers out there that can be derived to show how our performance weights versus expected with more bodies. Etc, etc, I could go on and on. And these people weren’t just on this board either. National analysts and coaches picked up on it too. We played walkons more minutes in this season alone than in the 15+ years combined that I have been a fan. We win 3-4 more games and we’re on the right side of the bubble. Our league was great last year. We lost more than 3-4 games simply because we ran out of bodies/legs/fouls. If you can’t see that I’m not sure there’s anything anyone on this board can do to convince you otherwise. Losing 4 of your top 7 players is not easy to absorb. And we were still in striking distance. Whenever you’re on the bubble within 2 weeks of the end of the regular season you can pretty much be considered a near tournament team. I guess that’s not your standard but that’s semantics. We weren’t eliminated until our last few games. We lost 4 bodies a month into the season....3 of them were in our top 5/6 defenders.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on May 1, 2020 19:01:04 GMT -5
This is not meant to call you out specifically I am just sick of this point that keeps getting brought up over and over that somehow the injuries derailed a potential good season. We went 2-5 in Big East games with both Mac and Yurt. We went 2-6 in games with just Mac and 3-9 in games with just Yurt. While you didn't say it, many others keep repeating this years team was tournament bound if Mac or Omer don't get hurt. There is nothing to back that up in actual results. The transfers derailed what could've been a "Coach is free from the hot seat discussion for years" type of year. Forgetting that you’re cherry picking and they were out in different games... You’ve now proven twice on just this page your reading comprehension is about as good as our BE performance lately. Let me spell it out for you again. We won 2 games and lost 5 when Mac AND Yurt BOTH played in conference games. That is not cherry picking. That is the stat. Just like the stat is we were 2-6 in conference games that Mac played in and 3-9 in conference games that Yurt played in. I’m sure here was some useless babble after you called out that but what was he point in reading if. If you want it to be taken seriously give it to someone else to post.
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