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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 13:10:54 GMT -5
Tremont waters is shorter than Dante and playing minutes in NBA. came in way more heralded / polished, but there is a path for the smaller/quick guys.. even if its just some spot minutes. Tremont shot 33% from 3 the year he was drafted, I could see Dante being at least that (he is 88% from the line, but appears to have a bit slower release/less trajectory). Biggest difference aside from assists which Dante could get is steals (Tremont at 2.6!) and finishing at rim/2pt FG, Tremont at 50%, Dante at 38%. Akinjo at 36% for his career. Matt McClung at 47%. Waters has insane athleticism, I wouldn’t compare many to him. I think we see a significant bump in Dante’s 3 point shooting next year.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Feb 25, 2021 15:39:08 GMT -5
Tremont waters is shorter than Dante and playing minutes in NBA. came in way more heralded / polished, but there is a path for the smaller/quick guys.. even if its just some spot minutes. Tremont shot 33% from 3 the year he was drafted, I could see Dante being at least that (he is 88% from the line, but appears to have a bit slower release/less trajectory). Biggest difference aside from assists which Dante could get is steals (Tremont at 2.6!) and finishing at rim/2pt FG, Tremont at 50%, Dante at 38%. Akinjo at 36% for his career. Matt McClung at 47%. Waters has insane athleticism, I wouldn’t compare many to him. I think we see a significant bump in Dante’s 3 point shooting next year. Same here. Some people talk about Dante as if this year is as good as he will get (and he is already decently solid) but his jump to next year or even the one after that could have him being a fan favorite for a long time (he already is for me)
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Feb 25, 2021 18:01:41 GMT -5
He's pretty good and will get better. At his age (?), he could also have a growth spurt. With Dante, I am impressed!!
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Feb 25, 2021 18:37:33 GMT -5
Waters is super skilled. May not be a fair comparison.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 27, 2021 21:56:19 GMT -5
Don't know if many of you caught the press conference but Coach was saying that they didn't know if Dante would be able to play in this game as he has some kind of injury.
Sounds like it will be an on going thing for the rest of the season so I could see them reduce his minutes which would move Blair to point and Berger getting some more time.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Feb 27, 2021 22:29:41 GMT -5
Strange that he played 38 minutes if he had some sort of injury. Clearly he wasn’t on any minutes restriction.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Feb 27, 2021 22:32:55 GMT -5
Don't know if many of you caught the press conference but Coach was saying that they didn't know if Dante would be able to play in this game as he has some kind of injury. Sounds like it will be an on going thing for the rest of the season so I could see them reduce his minutes which would move Blair to point and Berger getting some more time. Would love to see more Berger and less Dante.
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Feb 27, 2021 22:53:06 GMT -5
Don't know if many of you caught the press conference but Coach was saying that they didn't know if Dante would be able to play in this game as he has some kind of injury. Sounds like it will be an on going thing for the rest of the season so I could see them reduce his minutes which would move Blair to point and Berger getting some more time. Would love to see more Berger and less Dante. We know
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Post by wponds on Feb 28, 2021 14:35:51 GMT -5
Strange that he played 38 minutes if he had some sort of injury. Clearly he wasn’t on any minutes restriction. I think a couple games ago he landed hard on his left wrist, so I think that might be it? Would explain why he can still manage to play through it
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wsdhoya
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Post by wsdhoya on Mar 1, 2021 2:22:52 GMT -5
Not sure if this has been pointed out but if you're a believer in advanced statistics they don't paint a pretty picture for Dante. His player efficiency rating is atrocious as is his turnover percentage and most of the other advanced stats that I know less about. I compared him to Collin Gillespie's freshman season and he is absolutely miles and miles away in every category. Sometimes being one of the better players on a not so good team can make you look better on film than you actually are. With that said, advanced stats aren't everything and they don't measure things like Dante's hustle and the fact that he is playing so many minutes in a freshman season with pandemic shortened preseason preparation. These stats make me feel like Dante can't be the answer at point guard for the next three years on a team with serious ambitions, but hopefully I am wrong. For one thing the amount of turnovers this team gives up is mind blowing and the first culprit there has to be the guy running the offense. Love the effort and passion Dante plays with so I really hope he puts in the work on the court and in the film room and can run our offense more efficiently and effectively.
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dailey247
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Post by dailey247 on Mar 1, 2021 2:53:50 GMT -5
For one thing the amount of turnovers this team gives up is mind blowing and the first culprit there has to be the guy running the offense. I mean, as a program we have been terrible with turnovers for years. We haven't been able to crack even the top (bottom?) 100 nationally in turnovers since the 07 Final Four team. Throwing the ball directly out of bounds several times a game just seems to be the Georgetown way. I'm definitely not ready to call a freshman PG the "first culprit" at this point. I'd bet on him cleaning that up over the summer, but then again I would have bet on a lot of guys improving over their first summers in recent years and that hasn't worked out so well.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 1, 2021 6:02:54 GMT -5
I think the turnovers will improve. Q’s 2 turnovers on feeds from Dante against UCONN come to mind.
1) Dante splits a double on the PNR and lobs it to Q
2). Dante drives the baseline and bounce passes it to Q.
At some point in the progression, those are easy buckets.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Mar 1, 2021 8:52:33 GMT -5
Not sure if this has been pointed out but if you're a believer in advanced statistics they don't paint a pretty picture for Dante. His player efficiency rating is atrocious as is his turnover percentage and most of the other advanced stats that I know less about. I compared him to Collin Gillespie's freshman season and he is absolutely miles and miles away in every category. Sometimes being one of the better players on a not so good team can make you look better on film than you actually are. With that said, advanced stats aren't everything and they don't measure things like Dante's hustle and the fact that he is playing so many minutes in a freshman season with pandemic shortened preseason preparation. These stats make me feel like Dante can't be the answer at point guard for the next three years on a team with serious ambitions, but hopefully I am wrong. For one thing the amount of turnovers this team gives up is mind blowing and the first culprit there has to be the guy running the offense. Love the effort and passion Dante plays with so I really hope he puts in the work on the court and in the film room and can run our offense more efficiently and effectively. Why would you compare Harris to Gillespie's freshman season? I literally can't think of a worse comp. CG played 15 minutes a game on a national championship team with four players drafted after the year. And he played behind or along side the national player of the year in Brunson. And played for probably the most guard friendly coach/system in the NCAA. Harris doesn't measure up to that? I don't doubt that Harris's advanced starts are bad but we are asking him to do a lot more than we should out of necessity and he is holding up as well as you can reasonably expect. hm
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 1, 2021 11:37:20 GMT -5
Not sure if this has been pointed out but if you're a believer in advanced statistics they don't paint a pretty picture for Dante. His player efficiency rating is atrocious as is his turnover percentage and most of the other advanced stats that I know less about. I compared him to Collin Gillespie's freshman season and he is absolutely miles and miles away in every category. Sometimes being one of the better players on a not so good team can make you look better on film than you actually are. With that said, advanced stats aren't everything and they don't measure things like Dante's hustle and the fact that he is playing so many minutes in a freshman season with pandemic shortened preseason preparation. These stats make me feel like Dante can't be the answer at point guard for the next three years on a team with serious ambitions, but hopefully I am wrong. For one thing the amount of turnovers this team gives up is mind blowing and the first culprit there has to be the guy running the offense. Love the effort and passion Dante plays with so I really hope he puts in the work on the court and in the film room and can run our offense more efficiently and effectively. I'm a huge believer in advanced stats but this is not how you use them. Most of Dante's detractors seem to be obsessed with using his stats from this year and acting like no improvement is possible, even when improvement has already occurred. No one is saying Dante is an all-Big East PG; we're saying we see the tools for him to be a very good player. Scouting purely by numbers is never going to give you great predictive outcomes for players that aren't already performing. Dante has exhibited some of the most important skills a guard can show: - He can beat a guy off the dribble with no pnr assistance. He's not a superstar here; he can't do it at will, but he can do it enough for it to be a reliable weapon. And he's improving in the pick and roll immensely -- he has a good eye for the dish that has generated a bunch of easy buckets. But that can always improve -- what is harder to do is improving the combination of quickness + handle that gets him to the rim. Having someone who can create off the dribble is a huge asset for an offense. And right now, he's the only one we really have that can do that reliably.
- For a shorter player he gets good separation and elevation at the rim. He's not finishing at the rim, but he's not getting blocked that often -- he's just missing. This is improved through focus, repetition and practice, and it's a place players often make a big leap if they can have reasonably open space. Without starting a storm, this is something Akinjo never had at Georgetown -- he could get to the rim, but he was not a good finisher. Unlike Dante, though, his elevation was poor and his separation was limited as it was mostly generated by crafty play and not pure quickness. He wasn't missing layups so much as constantly getting blocked or shouldered off. Dante should be able to bring up his 2 point shot.
- He has good vision. His 21% assist rate is pretty good for a freshman, if we are using stats. But it's the characteristics of his passing and the assists that I like. He hasn't yet really mastered the drive and kick out yet, but his assists that he is getting ... a good number are off the pick n roll for easy baskets down low. The other portion are a little easier -- they are dishes to wide open three point shooters. But I like his recognition on the latter, and I think despite our good 3 pt %, his assist total could be much higher. We're missing a LOT of wide open threes. Either way, I like his recognition to where the ball needs to go. It's clear he's seeing the court out there. I don't think he's ever going to be the guy dissecting a defense like Jason Kidd or something; I just think he has good vision for running the offense.
- Creating off the dribble is one aspect, then you need to hit your shots. Dante's low offensive advanced stats are held back by his turnovers and his poor shooting. We've talked at the rim, and I think that improves. I also think his outside shot can improve. He gets good elevation, and his overall stroke isn't broken. Most of his misses are either a bit of back set up -- not being squared, which is fixable -- or just a bit too much / too little on the shot. His free throw % -- actually the best predictor of next year's 3PT % is strong, and I don't know that he's ever a deep bomber or anything, but ... getting to 50% at the rim and 36% from three, and Dante is suddenly a strong offensive asset.
- Defensively, he's actually pretty good for a frosh in simply staying in front of his man. He's got decent footwork and quickness, and he's the one guard of ours who doesn't get beat every time down. He's small, and that will always be an issue, but he's actually contained players this year, which is something most of our defenders can't say.
I don't know how good Dante ends up -- so much of that relies on him improving. But I'm excited about him because he has skills that are hard to improve on if you don't have them. People have been waiting for Pickett, for example, to suddenly develop a real game driving to the hoop, but they are ignoring that the handle required to do that isn't something you see people improve in the college years very often. It starts young and requires so much repetition. Whereas minor tweaks to shooting form? Doable. Learning to finish over bigger people? Doable. Decision making at the college level? Doable. It isn't about where he is now, it's about the skills he has and how the things that are holding him back are absolutely improvable. Pre-COVID break, Dante shot 31% from 2. Post-COVID break, he's shot 48% from 2. That's a big improvement. Pre-COVID break, Dante turned the ball over 25 times in 265 minutes. Post-COVID break, he's turned it over 21 times in 276 minutes. That's a small improvement, and it's even bigger when you realize that the pre-COVID number is 23 times in 220 Big East minutes. Same numbers for assists: 23 assists in 265 minutes pre-COVID; 36 in 276 minutes after. Basically, he went from 3.5A : 3.8TO ration per 40 to 5.2A : 3.0TO. The latter is still too high, but he's creating more and turning it over less. There may be some pace differences in there, but they are likely immaterial. The one thing that hasn't improved is the 3. That's got to do so -- you can't have a guard shooting 30%. He shot 32% before the break, he's shot 25% after though he's cut back on shots/minute. The poor shooting here is actually somewhat masked his improvement elsewhere. Still, if he is at 48% from 2, 5:3 TO ratio. Then shoots better from three next year, loses a turnover, makes a couple more twos, starts to get more calls as a sophomore... that's a pretty good player. I don't envision Dante as a superstar player who dominates the offense and controls everything. I see him much more as someone who can run the offense, be a part of it, create easy shots for people, be opportunistic with his driving, and absolutely be an end of the shot clock guy in many cases. There's a lot to say he can be that if he works hard. There are skills there are absolutely plus-Big East skills. Just needs to bring it all together.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 1, 2021 11:39:15 GMT -5
I think the turnovers will improve. Q’s 2 turnovers on feeds from Dante against UCONN come to mind. 1) Dante splits a double on the PNR and lobs it to Q 2). Dante drives the baseline and bounce passes it to Q. At some point in the progression, those are easy buckets. There's also some dumb things he's doing. He had a really great game against DePaul until he forced it against the press twice. Those can hurt you, but they are also pretty easy to clean up the decision making on them.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Mar 1, 2021 11:52:08 GMT -5
Well said. I am a big fan of Dante Harris and think he will be a huge asset for another three years!
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 1, 2021 11:54:18 GMT -5
Don't know if many of you caught the press conference but Coach was saying that they didn't know if Dante would be able to play in this game as he has some kind of injury. Sounds like it will be an on going thing for the rest of the season so I could see them reduce his minutes which would move Blair to point and Berger getting some more time. Would love to see more Berger and less Dante. No words for this...Like MAGA-level speechless. More Berger and less Blair I suppose I could reconcile in some alternative universe where an Ivy Leaguer becomes a meaningful contributor on a backcourt next season that features an incoming 5-star, an all-frosh BE soph and two other recruits everyone wanted... But more Berger and less Dante? The only explanation is that HoyaBoya is a masochist.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Mar 1, 2021 13:59:52 GMT -5
I agree with everything in SFHoya99 post, and the chart in the attached link also does a good job of showing the improvement. It's observable even in the advanced stats themselves. barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2021&p=Dante%20Harris&t=GeorgetownIf you look at the 5 game moving average, it really starts to take off post covid break. It's coming back down a little bit but considering everyone struggled vs. UConn and he was banged up against DePaul while playing 38 minutes, I would think he earns a pass. Yes the numbers in the beginning were terrible, although they were basically the same as Jalen Harris which is why there was such a push to play Dante because he'd have a better chance of improving. The trend is positive and this experience as a guard should be invaluable going forward.
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kbones17
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Post by kbones17 on Mar 1, 2021 14:21:01 GMT -5
I think the turnovers will improve. Q’s 2 turnovers on feeds from Dante against UCONN come to mind. 1) Dante splits a double on the PNR and lobs it to Q 2). Dante drives the baseline and bounce passes it to Q. At some point in the progression, those are easy buckets. There's also some dumb things he's doing. He had a really great game against DePaul until he forced it against the press twice. Those can hurt you, but they are also pretty easy to clean up the decision making on them. Yes Dante made two bad decisions in the last two minutes of the DePaul game. Dribbled way too aggressively trying to split two defenders leading to a turnover (when they would have fouled almost intentionally), and then after that when he broke the press and then attempted a contested layup instead of pulling it back out to kill clock. The game was far enough out of reach that it didn’t matter but both were not smart decisions given the situation. He will learn from these mistakes but both were just poor decisions; end of game decisions from your point guard need to be sound.
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wsdhoya
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Post by wsdhoya on Mar 1, 2021 16:36:20 GMT -5
Certainly hadn't look at the stats on Dante through that lens, but I am glad he is showing improvement in several areas. Struggling to shoot from 3 could potentially be not just a problem with his stroke but also the fact that he's undersized and has difficulty getting shots up over defenders. With that said, if he can still find a way to up his percentages to at least keep defenders honest around the perimeter, he has the speed and passing ability to drive and dish or find an open player off the dribble. The key factor to determining the level of success next year could very well be Harris' ability to improve his game. Ever since Markel Starks left I've been saying Georgetown's kryptonite has been the lack of a real point guard. DSR wasn't a point guard, Akinjo had potential but was young and sometimes out of control, and all of those teams since Starks have struggled with turnovers. Hopefully Harris can be the guy to finally provide the Hoyas with a ball dominant guard who can run the offense, because if he can do that Sibley, Aminu, Q, and the rest of the gang the next few years will be able to feed off of that and churn out some Ws.
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