hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
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Post by hoyainla on Mar 21, 2019 11:04:57 GMT -5
This is such a short sighted take on our 18-19 season. Yes if you just look at the KenPom numbers we were worse but we started 3 frosh, 1 soph, and 1 senior. Last year we started 1 senior, 1 soph, 1 fresh, and 2 juniors.....I guess you dont include the gms that we won last year with MD making ridiculous shots as luck? Eyes of the beholder?....Look we know that you don't like Ewing but if you don't understand that this year was a upgrade over last year, I don't know what to tell you... Some fans have been involved with team sports at a high level and some just haven’t got a clue. I’ve realized this is often a big difference in how fanbases evaluate their team, particularly at the NCAA level. I've been involved with team sports at a pretty high level and can say this season in a vacuum was not any better than the previous. If you want to say the results of this season provide you hope for future seasons than that can be discussed. Those are 2 entirely different things though.
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Post by teddy16 on Mar 21, 2019 11:08:34 GMT -5
The BE looks horrible this year. Penn beat Nova and Harvard beat GU in -18-19 season. 3 teams (Prov,Butler and GU) lost in 1st rd of NIT!! Current state of affairs, GU is a mediocre team in a weak conference
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sweetness
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Post by sweetness on Mar 21, 2019 11:27:40 GMT -5
To go 9-9 in conference with three freshmen starters is progress, without a doubt. Disappointing end, but when your senior 'leader' doesn't step up and set the tone, the postseason upside is capped. I'm glad the young guys were able to experience a little of the postseason to see how the intensity level rises and what is expected. Hopefully the young guys work hard in the offseason, and we can maybe add one more shooter. The future is looking up.
Also regarding the conference, a lot of young teams. Will definitely be improved next year, so we have to improve that much more.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Mar 21, 2019 11:29:03 GMT -5
Some fans have been involved with team sports at a high level and some just haven’t got a clue. I’ve realized this is often a big difference in how fanbases evaluate their team, particularly at the NCAA level. I've been involved with team sports at a pretty high level and can say this season in a vacuum was not any better than the previous. If you want to say the results of this season provide you hope for future seasons than that can be discussed. Those are 2 entirely different things though. No, but to completely dismiss the performance of the other 353 teams and how that has had an effect on our perceived performance and hard metrics is to fall short of understanding the dynamic of college basketball. Not to mention to understand what goals were for Ewing and his team in year 1 and 2 were very different, and the preparation showed as much. Also, I never said that being involved with team sports at a high level necessarily gives you an accurate understanding for the record. Some of those involved understand more than others. I would put money that this year’s team would beat last year’s. Contain Marcus in that matchup and we win. Akinjo would abuse Mulmore and i liked Mulmore.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 21, 2019 11:55:10 GMT -5
To go 9-9 in conference with three freshmen starters is progress, without a doubt. Disappointing end, but when your senior 'leader' doesn't step up and set the tone, the postseason upside is capped. I'm glad the young guys were able to experience a little of the postseason to see how the intensity level rises and what is expected. Hopefully the young guys work hard in the offseason, and we can maybe add one more shooter. The future is looking up. Also regarding the conference, a lot of young teams. Will definitely be improved next year, so we have to improve that much more. What does this mean? Didn't the frosh play hard this season? Same question for Jagan, Malinowski, Kaleb, Pickett & Blair?
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sweetness
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Post by sweetness on Mar 21, 2019 12:07:02 GMT -5
It means that when your senior big man, first team all big-east isn't fighting, clawing, and battling to win every rebound, every loose ball, every one-one-one battle, let alone every game, you aren't going to win in the postseason. That's fine though - wish him well - but I'm looking forward to next year when more if not all of the guys will take on the personality of the coach.
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robbyt
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Post by robbyt on Mar 21, 2019 12:21:47 GMT -5
It means that when your senior big man, first team all big-east isn't fighting, clawing, and battling to win every rebound, every loose ball, every one-one-one battle, let alone every game, you aren't going to win in the postseason. That's fine though - wish him well - but I'm looking forward to next year when more if not all of the guys will take on the personality of the coach. Yeah there was not a single legit banger on this team, except maybe flashes of Josh LeBlanc, who right now is more of a leaper and in the future could be a better-scoring Rodman. Most of the other Big East teams except maybe Creighton have a few good scorers and a few bangers--like Mamukelashvili for Seton Hall > who by the way is 19 yo. Yurtseven practices with the team right? If so, my hunch is he dusts Govan in practice every day, that may be one reason Ewing dogs Govan. Yurtseven is a physical player and a high-motor guy. Having said that, the mystery to me is: Ewing always seem to know what went wrong in postgame conferences. He knows the game. But he can't seem to fix it. My question is, is that because he's allowing other coaches to handle the offense, or just the chasm between knowing the game and being able to teach the game? I can't blame the players for repeated strategic mistakes which ought to have been ironed out over the year.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 21, 2019 12:27:38 GMT -5
It means that when your senior big man, first team all big-east isn't fighting, clawing, and battling to win every rebound, every loose ball, every one-one-one battle, let alone every game, you aren't going to win in the postseason. That's fine though - wish him well - but I'm looking forward to next year when more if not all of the guys will take on the personality of the coach. C'mon. 5-15 for Mac, 6 points combined from Mosely, Blair, Pickett and Malinowski, and insufficient decent offensive sets to score more than 68 at McDonough, and we didn't win because Jesse (who BTW puts up 25 because he's "lazy") doesn't fight enough? I guess we watched different games.
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adm1hoya
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Post by adm1hoya on Mar 21, 2019 12:30:54 GMT -5
I didn't see the entire game. I tuned out after the sequence in which Jessie stood their with his arms raised high on defense, Harvard player shoots, gets his own rebound and follow, while Jessie still remains with his arms raised high over his head. Never turning to box out and seal, only moving just slightly to allow said Harvard player direct access towards the missed shot.
I'd had enough of Jessie playing as if he has 4 fouls entering the building. His lack of defense totally offsets whatever he may do on offense.
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sweetness
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Post by sweetness on Mar 21, 2019 12:35:50 GMT -5
Yeah I guess we did - because after the first five minutes of seeing Lewis push around and manhandle Jessie, I knew that we were likely to lose. His points were empty points, like they were all year.
And btw the list of bigs who set the tone for games by pushing Jessie around this year is too long to even recount, but off the top of my head the Illinois big, the Xavier big, the Seton Hall big, the Creighton big. This happened all year, and I know this because I watched every game.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 21, 2019 12:45:43 GMT -5
Yeah I guess we did - because after the first five minutes of seeing Lewis push around and manhandle Jessie, I knew that we were likely to lose. His points were empty points, like they were all year. And btw the list of bigs who set the tone for games by pushing Jessie around this year is too long to even recount, but off the top of my head the Illinois big, the Xavier big, the Seton Hall big, the Creighton big. This happened all year, and I know this because I watched every game. It’s not an argument the Jessie apologists understand. He is the worst defensive regular inch for inch in the history of the program, and his listless BS defense means he needs to score 25 a game to be a net-zero impact. That said, he wasn’t the primary reason for last night’s loss in my opinion. I thought Ewing and Mac were equally horrible last night, and LeBlanc wasn’t far behind (relative to expectation). Trey has his own tier of expected and customary atrocity, which he exceeded last night. Aside from Akinjo, I thought the whole team was terrible last night. As for the season, I don’t see how anyone could call it worse than last season. The highs were higher, the lows were lower. And there are literally red flags everywhere re Pat. He’s been a laughable in-game coach to date. But next year, it’s NCAAs or bust with HIS roster, and no more excuses will be legit.
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sweetness
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Post by sweetness on Mar 21, 2019 12:49:23 GMT -5
Agreed it was a rough performance all around, but it doesn't really alter my hopes/expectations for next year, which as you mentioned include a tourney bid.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Mar 21, 2019 12:53:41 GMT -5
On the bright side, Coach Ewing can focus on recruiting today instead of putting together a game plan for Sunday.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Mar 21, 2019 13:04:28 GMT -5
It means that when your senior big man, first team all big-east isn't fighting, clawing, and battling to win every rebound, every loose ball, every one-one-one battle, let alone every game, you aren't going to win in the postseason. That's fine though - wish him well - but I'm looking forward to next year when more if not all of the guys will take on the personality of the coach. Yeah there was not a single legit banger on this team, except maybe flashes of Josh LeBlanc, who right now is more of a leaper and in the future could be a better-scoring Rodman. Most of the other Big East teams except maybe Creighton have a few good scorers and a few bangers--like Mamukelashvili for Seton Hall > who by the way is 19 yo. Yurtseven practices with the team right? If so, my hunch is he dusts Govan in practice every day, that may be one reason Ewing dogs Govan. Yurtseven is a physical player and a high-motor guy. Having said that, the mystery to me is: Ewing always seem to know what went wrong in postgame conferences. He knows the game. But he can't seem to fix it. My question is, is that because he's allowing other coaches to handle the offense, or just the chasm between knowing the game and being able to teach the game? I can't blame the players for repeated strategic mistakes which ought to have been ironed out over the year. I don't think it is a case of Coach Ewing or the staff not knowing what adjustments/changes to make, it was more a case of having the players/athletes to makes the changes they want to employ. I thought some of the offensive game plans and adjustments were good this year. The biggest issue all year was on defense, where it seems they want to play man to man most of the time. In order to play a really effective and disruptive style of man to man, you need athletes who can, and are willing to, get up on their guy, pressure the ball and still stay in front of them without fouling. The roster did not have enough of those guys, so they tended to play more of a passive man defense, that hoped to force the other team into making contested shots, opposed to really disrupting what they other team was trying to do. Akinjo can play tight defense on the perimeter (although he did get some cheap fouls late last night) and Jagan and Josh can also play that type of defense. The rest of the team is just not really capable. I think Mac has the athletic skills to do it, but is not an experienced enough defender at this point to play that way without getting beat often. Kaleb can play that way sometimes but he was really a role player most of the season. Watching Jessie and Trey try to recover after hedging on pick and rolls was painful some times, they were just not athletic enough. Grayson never really played enough to know what he is capable of defensively. Jamorko got better as a defender and worked much harder then the year before, but he still would struggle playing tight defense on the perimeter. Greg and Javon are just not quick enough to play that type of defense. I am hopeful with the players coming in next year, they can play a more disruptive and athletic brand of defense, with much better rim protection, which should lead to more steals/forced turnovers and more transition baskets.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 21, 2019 13:17:33 GMT -5
Yeah I guess we did - because after the first five minutes of seeing Lewis push around and manhandle Jessie, I knew that we were likely to lose. His points were empty points, like they were all year. And btw the list of bigs who set the tone for games by pushing Jessie around this year is too long to even recount, but off the top of my head the Illinois big, the Xavier big, the Seton Hall big, the Creighton big. This happened all year, and I know this because I watched every game. It’s not an argument the Jessie apologists understand. He is the worst defensive regular inch for inch in the history of the program, and his listless BS defense means he needs to score 25 a game to be a net-zero impact. That said, he wasn’t the primary reason for last night’s loss in my opinion. I thought Ewing and Mac were equally horrible last night, and LeBlanc wasn’t far behind (relative to expectation). Trey has his own tier of expected and customary atrocity, which he exceeded last night. Aside from Akinjo, I thought the whole team was terrible last night. As for the season, I don’t see how anyone could call it worse than last season. The highs were higher, the lows were lower. And there are literally red flags everywhere re Pat. He’s been a laughable in-game coach to date. But next year, it’s NCAAs or bust with HIS roster, and no more excuses will be legit. I'm not sure if I qualify as a "Jesse apologist" simply because I've been disputing the contention that he is basically the reason we lost last night--something we seem to be on the same side about. Still, if you're going to call him the worst defensive regular (inch for inch) in program history, it would help to have some numbers to support the argument, if only something showing how bad he is. I don't really care if Jesse is a worse defender than, say, Duane Spencer, but something tangible might help to support the "worst" tag. After four years here, he deserves that.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 21, 2019 13:30:32 GMT -5
There’s a lot of hyperbole flying around in this thread.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 21, 2019 13:35:20 GMT -5
I don’t think there’s any way to quantify how bad Govan is defensively. I don’t buy all of the advanced stats. What I do know is I can’t remember another frontcourt starter who was worse. He’s bad on the ball. Atrocious on hedge and move (just glacial). And I’m not sure I’ve ever seen him slide weakside and supply help. Does he have one weakside/backside block in his career? That’s frankly pathetic for a guy his size. Spencer didn’t play enough to count. Give me a worse regular.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 21, 2019 13:40:14 GMT -5
It means that when your senior big man, first team all big-east isn't fighting, clawing, and battling to win every rebound, every loose ball, every one-one-one battle, let alone every game, you aren't going to win in the postseason. That's fine though - wish him well - but I'm looking forward to next year when more if not all of the guys will take on the personality of the coach. Ok, but where does the "set the tone" reference you posted come into play? Did the other players on the team fight, claw, and battle in your view?
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 21, 2019 13:46:58 GMT -5
It means that when your senior big man, first team all big-east isn't fighting, clawing, and battling to win every rebound, every loose ball, every one-one-one battle, let alone every game, you aren't going to win in the postseason. That's fine though - wish him well - but I'm looking forward to next year when more if not all of the guys will take on the personality of the coach. Ok, but where does the "set the tone" reference you posted come into play? Did the other players on the team fight, claw, and battle in your view? I think Sweetness’ reference is more to Govan’s utter lack of leadership, fire and grit all season as opposed to just last night. Personally, I don’t buy the “it’s not Jessie’s personality” argument. Then grow. Learn it. Take it on. Be more. Relative to intensity and leadership, Govan was a cadaver all season. That just doesn’t cut it when you’re the only key upperclassman on the team. The truly mystifying thing to me was Govan had to know going into the season that the ONLY way he gets a sniff at the league is if he demonstrates a willingness to play defense and uber-leadership/coachability metrics. Without quantum improvements in non-offensive areas, Govan had to know he wasn’t remotely attractive to the NBA. And yet, there was no growth mindset demonstrated.
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Post by centercourt400s on Mar 21, 2019 14:02:47 GMT -5
There’s a lot of hyperbole flying around in this thread. I hope you're ready for a looooong off-season of it Dan.
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