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Post by iheartdurenbros on Jan 8, 2019 17:55:12 GMT -5
I really wish that Jessie started out with Josh's energy and enthusiasm. How different Jessie's Georgetown career might have been if he started out with Pat. Rooting hard that our most important player gets his first and only NCAA appearance in his last year! And that our most exciting player gets in his first year here. Things like energy and motor are usually either there are not (though it can be learned to some extent). Josh LeBlanc would be a high energy player regardless of who the coach was. I highly doubt that Josh got his energy and enthusiasm from Ewing - in fact, that's probably part of the reason Ewing wanted him! I didn't say that Ewing gave Josh energy. I doubt that Jessie ever could have had the energy of Josh, but I think that the last years of JT3 sucked the life out of all the players, but particularly Jessie. Let's face it, it helps a lot when the players like the coach.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jan 8, 2019 18:25:48 GMT -5
If Trey starts when he comes back, I'm going to be mighty disappointed in Ewing. Don’t agree with this at all: a player especially a senior should not loose his job due to an injury. Josh will be on the floor for 30+ minutes anyway and at the end of games. I do agree that he is our best player and most important. Who wrote that rule? I don't agree. If you go down injured, and the guy replacing you is clearly superior, there is nothing preventing a coach from making the change permanent. Happens all the time in sports, most famously when Wally Pipp called in sick with a headache and was replaced by Lou Gherig, a clearly superior player, for the next 2,130 games. Likewise, it is clear to me Josh is superior to Trey in every facet of the game. Josh's stellar play has earned him the right to start and play 30+ minutes. Trey is a below-average Big East level player. It's hard to say it, because we love him and his father. But it's true. And my disappointment in Ewing putting Trey back in the starting lineup and taking starter minutes away from Josh will be because coach would seemingly be valuing his loyalty to Alonzo (or some silly unwritten rule) more than rewarding results on the floor.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Jan 8, 2019 18:37:36 GMT -5
On the CBS broadcast Rafftery referred to a conversation he had with Ewing in which he said he tries to keep Govan on the floor as much as possible because he's the team's BEST PLAYER. But what does he know compared to all the keyboard warriors among the Hoyas fanbase, the same guys who think they're qualified to pick or adjust starting lineups? Love LeBanc but I doubt opposing teams are even game-planning him yet. They most definitely are for our most vital player, Govan. The same guy who starts Trey Mourning over Josh? Yeah no thanks.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Jan 8, 2019 18:38:47 GMT -5
Agreed with this take. Jessie is our best offensive player. But Josh is the best overall player, and it’s not particularly close. I love Josh and think he will be our best player one day, but right now he can't create his own shot and can't score consistently outside of 5 feet. He is our best defensive player but not our best overall player. You just described Draymond Green who has been a top 15-20 player in the NBA.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 8, 2019 19:04:00 GMT -5
I love Josh and think he will be our best player one day, but right now he can't create his own shot and can't score consistently outside of 5 feet. He is our best defensive player but not our best overall player. You just described Draymond Green who has been a top 15-20 player in the NBA. Green as a freshman & sophomore right?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 8, 2019 19:05:32 GMT -5
If Trey starts when he comes back, I'm going to be mighty disappointed in Ewing. Don’t agree with this at all: a player especially a senior should not loose his job due to an injury. Josh will be on the floor for 30+ minutes anyway and at the end of games. I do agree that he is our best player and most important. What has Trey Mourning done to demonstrate he should start? I don't mean this in a negative way against Trey Mourning, but he had an undistinguished three years with the team, threatened to transfer, was injured, and then came back this season after recovering. He was essentially a walk-on to start, and was not widely considered to be a high-major recruit. I totally understand why Ewing may have logically gone with Mourning to start the year, as he was a senior, Ewing clearly has familiarity with him, etc. However, I don't think any of us (or most of us) realized how consistently good Josh LeBlanc would be and so quickly, at that. Aside from Govan, he has clearly been the best player on the team. As other's have shown, he improves our defense substantially compared with when Mourning plays, and he is highly efficient even though no offense is run for him (even in total numbers, LeBlanc has the third most points on the team). Directly compared with Mourning, LeBlanc is better in almost every way. It's not even close. As a result, he deserves to start. Not only does that help to put our best squad on the court to start the game, but it also gives LeBlanc the recognition he deserves. LeBlanc is a lot more important to the future of the team. (To the extent anybody argues Akinjo/McClung need to learn to play together for the future of the team, the same argument also militates in favor of LeBlanc getting play over Mourning.) If Mourning starts, the only logical reason is because his name is Mourning, and Ewing has ties to his father. That would be an awful precedent to set. It clearly isn't because of his on court performance, and being a senior isn't enough to merit starting.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 8, 2019 19:21:18 GMT -5
I love Josh and think he will be our best player one day, but right now he can't create his own shot and can't score consistently outside of 5 feet. He is our best defensive player but not our best overall player. You just described Draymond Green who has been a top 15-20 player in the NBA. Great. He was a great four year college player and didn't start for Michigan until his junior year. Certainly wasn't best player on a high major team his freshman year quality, similar to Josh.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Jan 8, 2019 19:28:22 GMT -5
If Trey starts when he comes back, I'm going to be mighty disappointed in Ewing. Don’t agree with this at all: a player especially a senior should not loose his job due to an injury. Josh will be on the floor for 30+ minutes anyway and at the end of games. I do agree that he is our best player and most important. Trey has no business starting over Josh. Not now, not three weeks ago, not ever. Trey is a nice little deep bench role player who should play about 5 min a game for GU. If his last name was Jones, he’d be at Montclair State.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 8, 2019 20:12:34 GMT -5
Maybe coach starts Trey so Josh is not worn down at the end of the game and miss 5 of 7 free throws.
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Post by kansashoyafan on Jan 8, 2019 22:02:23 GMT -5
Don’t agree with this at all: a player especially a senior should not loose his job due to an injury. Josh will be on the floor for 30+ minutes anyway and at the end of games. I do agree that he is our best player and most important. Trey has no business starting over Josh. Not now, not three weeks ago, not ever. Trey is a nice little deep bench role player who should play about 5 min a game for GU. If his last name was Jones, he’d be at Montclair State. I'm sure there are Legacy student's in many programs at the university, taking spots from more deserving students because of their last name or money. Trey did not deserve your slam. He earned his scholarship. Be a fan of our squad.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 9, 2019 3:03:42 GMT -5
On the CBS broadcast Rafftery referred to a conversation he had with Ewing in which he said he tries to keep Govan on the floor as much as possible because he's the team's BEST PLAYER. But what does he know compared to all the keyboard warriors among the Hoyas fanbase, the same guys who think they're qualified to pick or adjust starting lineups? Love LeBanc but I doubt opposing teams are even game-planning him yet. They most definitely are for our most vital player, Govan. The same guy who starts Trey Mourning over Josh? Yeah no thanks. Awwww, so you're throwing Ewing and his judgment under a bus because he had the audacity to start a fifth year senior over your new boo? That's so sweet. This fanbase is so golden. I'm gonna guess Ewing gave Trey the starting spot that he probably figured Antwan Walker would fill before his dismissal. Probably felt comfortable with his experience in being a fifth-year guy who has already gone through it all and knows what it takes. Maybe at the time being he felt Josh wasn't ready for the starting spot alongside Govan but was prepared to give Josh major starters' like minutes anyway. Also maybe in practice Trey had EARNED the right to be that starter in the PF slot. But, naw, let's keep dogging Trey as if he stole our Christmas gifts right from under the tree. Most of all let us keep slandering Ewing's ability to think and make the right decisions. This Hoya fanbase has been dishing out the coaching critique equivalent of "Ewing Can't Read" for the past year. What a disgrace.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Jan 9, 2019 3:05:17 GMT -5
Don’t agree with this at all: a player especially a senior should not loose his job due to an injury. Josh will be on the floor for 30+ minutes anyway and at the end of games. I do agree that he is our best player and most important. Wally Pipp? Drew Bledsoe?
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Jan 9, 2019 9:03:47 GMT -5
You just described Draymond Green who has been a top 15-20 player in the NBA. Great. He was a great four year college player and didn't start for Michigan until his junior year. Certainly wasn't best player on a high major team his freshman year quality, similar to Josh. That wasn't my point. I wasn't comparing them as college players. I was using Green as an example of an elite player who doesn't post big scoring numbers.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Jan 9, 2019 9:11:59 GMT -5
The same guy who starts Trey Mourning over Josh? Yeah no thanks. Awwww, so you're throwing Ewing and his judgment under a bus because he had the audacity to start a fifth year senior over your new boo? That's so sweet. This fanbase is so golden. I'm gonna guess Ewing gave Trey the starting spot that he probably figured Antwan Walker would fill before his dismissal. Probably felt comfortable with his experience in being a fifth-year guy who has already gone through it all and knows what it takes. Maybe at the time being he felt Josh wasn't ready for the starting spot alongside Govan but was prepared to give Josh major starters' like minutes anyway. Also maybe in practice Trey had EARNED the right to be that starter in the PF slot. But, naw, let's keep dogging Trey as if he stole our Christmas gifts right from under the tree. Most of all let us keep slandering Ewing's ability to think and make the right decisions. This Hoya fanbase has been dishing out the coaching critique equivalent of "Ewing Can't Read" for the past year. What a disgrace. And you can't even handle the slightest bit of criticism thrown the way of your idol. It makes all the sense for the HC to say Govan is the best player. He's a senior, entered the year as the most established player, is the #1 scoring option. Josh just happens to be the most productive player on the team this year.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 9, 2019 10:17:22 GMT -5
Awwww, so you're throwing Ewing and his judgment under a bus because he had the audacity to start a fifth year senior over your new boo? That's so sweet. This fanbase is so golden. I'm gonna guess Ewing gave Trey the starting spot that he probably figured Antwan Walker would fill before his dismissal. Probably felt comfortable with his experience in being a fifth-year guy who has already gone through it all and knows what it takes. Maybe at the time being he felt Josh wasn't ready for the starting spot alongside Govan but was prepared to give Josh major starters' like minutes anyway. Also maybe in practice Trey had EARNED the right to be that starter in the PF slot. But, naw, let's keep dogging Trey as if he stole our Christmas gifts right from under the tree. Most of all let us keep slandering Ewing's ability to think and make the right decisions. This Hoya fanbase has been dishing out the coaching critique equivalent of "Ewing Can't Read" for the past year. What a disgrace. And you can't even handle the slightest bit of criticism thrown the way of your idol. It makes all the sense for the HC to say Govan is the best player. He's a senior, entered the year as the most established player, is the #1 scoring option. Josh just happens to be the most productive player on the team this year. If I couldn't handle criticism of Govan I would never have gotten off the net the past two years because all I do is come across crying by Hoya fans about him on this site and twitter. I would be getting into keyboard battles non-stop. But I let 99% of that slide. However I guess in your eyes I must be overly sensitive to have the audacity to interject and back up someone's claim that Govan is the team's best player. And I did so by using the remarks that the head coach apparently made. You on the other hand resort to conjecture, speculation and some good ol' fashion slandering of the head coach whose mind btw you think you can read. Let me add that while I root for the team first and for all the players to be successful individually, my four current guys on the roster are Govan, Pickett, McClung and, yes, LeBlanc. If these guys have terrific outings in victories that makes me even more satisfied. So when I write positive things about Govan or see him as the most important and vital player it is not meant as a criticism of Josh. The same can't be said of many people here who come close to worshipping Josh all the while acting as if Jessie is ruining their lives with his defensive play.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 9, 2019 11:17:41 GMT -5
And you can't even handle the slightest bit of criticism thrown the way of your idol. It makes all the sense for the HC to say Govan is the best player. He's a senior, entered the year as the most established player, is the #1 scoring option. Josh just happens to be the most productive player on the team this year. If I couldn't handle criticism of Govan I would never have gotten off the net the past two years because all I do is come across crying by Hoya fans about him on this site and twitter. I would be getting into keyboard battles non-stop. But I let 99% of that slide. However I guess in your eyes I must be overly sensitive to have the audacity to interject and back up someone's claim that Govan is the team's best player. And I did so by using the remarks that the head coach apparently made. You on the other hand resort to conjecture, speculation and some good ol' fashion slandering of the head coach whose mind btw you think you can read. Let me add that while I root for the team first and for all the players to be successful individually, my four current guys on the roster are Govan, Pickett, McClung and, yes, LeBlanc. If these guys have terrific outings in victories that makes me even more satisfied. So when I write positive things about Govan or see him as the most important and vital player it is not meant as a criticism of Josh. The same can't be said of many people here who come close to worshipping Josh all the while acting as if Jessie is ruining their lives with his defensive play. Basketball is funny in that, unlike football, you don't have separate offenses and defenses. So guys have to play both ways and it becomes hard to determine how much someone say, like Govan, who is very good on one side and very bad on the other actually means to a team. I think in the old days before the 3 point shot players defensive liabilities weren't as exposed and therefore a player with great scoring numbers could be excused for defensive lapses. But now, if that 2 point bucket a guy gets on one end is offset by a 3 point bucket he allows (or causes to be allowed) on the other end then you have to reevaluate his worth to the team. And that's what seems to be the problem with Govan to many members of this Board. While I have been a Govan detractor I am coming around to a more "nuanced" appreciation of Jesse as the BE season progresses. For one he seems to have really upped his offensive presence. Much more aggressive going to the hoop and finding the open man. Plus, he seems to be committing less obvious defensive miscues while our man defense has improved to the point where these miscues don't lead to as many buckets. For another, considering our lack of inside scoring, he is carrying a tremendous burden - and our opponents know it. So his buckets are much harder to come by and deserve a little more appreciation. In short, Govan is what he is. He will never be a rim protector but he will give us key buckets in the paint. On balance I still worry about his defensive shortcomings but will refrain from criticism as long as he keeps up his offensive numbers.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 9, 2019 11:28:01 GMT -5
This debate is a little silly, to some extent because it depends on what you value. If you like offense, then Govan is the more well rounded, better player. If you like defense, you're going to go with LeBlanc.
They have both been really good this year. They are very different players. Josh LeBlanc is clearly the better defender, extremely high motor, and has great offensive instincts. Govan is a good post player, has good range from three (which Josh doesn't have, at least not yet), and very versatile. Govan is not a great defender, though I think he has done better in the last few games, and he's not the huge negative on defense some try to portray on here (his offense clearly outweighs any defensive woes).
I think a debate about this is perfectly fine, but in the end, each of them are clearly very good players who should be playing as many minutes as they can.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 9, 2019 11:34:20 GMT -5
Jessie is also the focus of opponent’s defensive plans. He gets doubled regularly and still delivers.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 9, 2019 13:13:55 GMT -5
Jessie also has no backup right now. He has to play defense without fouling because he's, ya know, the team's best player. If he's sitting on the bench because he's gotten whistled, we're really in a bind. As the years have gone on, it's been the bigger dudes that get the crap end of the stick on whistles because you're not allowed to touch guards any longer. Because of that, it's a bit difficult to say what sort of defender Jessie would be if we had a legit backup for him on the roster right now. Both last year and this year, we couldn't afford to have him sit for long stretches.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 9, 2019 14:09:44 GMT -5
This debate is a little silly, to some extent because it depends on what you value. If you like offense, then Govan is the more well rounded, better player. If you like defense, you're going to go with LeBlanc. They have both been really good this year. They are very different players. Josh LeBlanc is clearly the better defender, extremely high motor, and has great offensive instincts. Govan is a good post player, has good range from three (which Josh doesn't have, at least not yet), and very versatile. Govan is not a great defender, though I think he has done better in the last few games, and he's not the huge negative on defense some try to portray on here (his offense clearly outweighs any defensive woes). I think a debate about this is perfectly fine, but in the end, each of them are clearly very good players who should be playing as many minutes as they can. Fair enough. This debate is pointless and counterproductive anyway. Just win.
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