DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 23, 2005 20:59:11 GMT -5
The results of the Dave Bliss investigation: five years probation and no non-conference games this season. After all the good news from the school this year (women's basketball and men's tennis as NCAA champs, plus baseball in the CWS), they're still lucky they didn't get the death penalty for men's basketball. baylorbears.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/062305aaa.html |
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 24, 2005 6:39:56 GMT -5
So, they've been awesome recruiting. Do they lose it all now?
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Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Jack on Jun 24, 2005 9:55:33 GMT -5
Andy Katz says they will be helping the 6 teams already contracted as non-conference opponents to find new games. I wonder if there is anyone worthwhile to pick up from that group.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,219
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 24, 2005 12:26:23 GMT -5
The results of the Dave Bliss investigation: five years probation and no non-conference games this season. After all the good news from the school this year (women's basketball and men's tennis as NCAA champs, plus baseball in the CWS), they're still lucky they didn't get the death penalty for men's basketball. baylorbears.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/062305aaa.html DFW, I know you are the fount of all knowledge, but I believe UCLA won the men's tennis championship this year. Baylor was ranked #1 prior to the start of the tournament. Bruins best Bears! |
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,775
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 24, 2005 12:30:48 GMT -5
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jun 24, 2005 12:35:23 GMT -5
This is an appropriate penalty for the stuff that went on. I hate to see the current coaches and players bear the brunt of the punishment, but that is the way it must be.
Now what the NCAA needs to do next is hunt out some of the many schools that are cheating and not even hiding it that well and lay the smackdown on them. Do you think I should hold my breath until that happens?
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FOTP
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by FOTP on Jun 24, 2005 13:00:58 GMT -5
I've been scouring around and can't find the teams. Nothing on the chat board over there....other than some serious crying.
My guess is they were all small local schools becaue larger schools couldn't risk the exposure.
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JimmyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Hoya fan, est. 1986
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Post by JimmyHoya on Jun 24, 2005 13:05:45 GMT -5
But is it truly appropriate?
It was just the same as any other murder/coverup job, 'cept they happen to be on the same team. I'll admit, I haven't read into the details of the case in quite some time, but I'm relatively sure people were not killed for recruiting, eligibility, financial etc. reasons that might unfairly give them an advantage over other B12/NCAA schools. It's obviously severely screwed up and an awful thing for the other players and school to deal with, but does the school and future players really deserve this?
Maybe I'm mistaken, but it comes off really harsh to be punishing a school for outside crimes committed by people in the program, not by the program itself.
Obviously, they deserve something in response to this fustercluck and all the horrendous publicity, but this just doesn't sit well with me....
Please correct me if I'm wrong about the situation.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,782
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 24, 2005 13:11:41 GMT -5
The punishment was not directly related to the murder. It had to do with institutional payoffs to recruits and AAU teams, amongst other things.
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FOTP
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,435
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Post by FOTP on Jun 24, 2005 13:13:42 GMT -5
Actually the murder was just icing on the cake. SOunds terrible, but most of the stuff that killed them was all of the things that led up to it.
Payments to AAU coaches...paying players...forging expense reports...forging food receipts...
The list went on and on. The Dotson/Dennehy just brought it all to the front and center.
They frankly deserved the death penalty for lack in institutional control, but they got lucky.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jun 24, 2005 14:00:06 GMT -5
If ever there was a program that deserved the death penalty it was this one - and the death penalty has been given out for less IMO. I can't find the Fort Worth Star-Telegram articles that detail all of the institutionalized pay offs and meddling with the NCAA investigation itself and the murder related items but it was to say the least extremely sordid.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 24, 2005 21:07:19 GMT -5
If ever there was a program that deserved the death penalty it was this one - and the death penalty has been given out for less IMO. Given out for less? Not really. While other teams have lost entire seasons for violations (e.g., Kentucky lost the entire 1952-53 basketball season) SMU's case still stands apart. Not only did SMU's coaches authorize over $60,000 in payments to 21 players, but the monthly payments were done while the school was already on a prior probation and with the knowledge of its board of trustees, including the Governor of the state. The death penalty has not been applied since because of what it did to SMU's overall program. Once a top 10 football team, SMU has mustered one winning season since. A basketball team that came within a point of Georgetown in the 1984 NCAA's has played in one NCAA post-season game since the DP. A school which once boasted Olympians in track no longer even fields a men's track program. The penalty still hangs over not just the football team, but to some, the entire university image. In the 1970's, SMU considered Duke, Vanderbilt, Rice, and Tulane its academic rivals. Not anymore. |
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jun 25, 2005 2:24:34 GMT -5
I am thinking of the highly dubious case in 1989 when Oklahoma State football received: 2-year TV ban, 3-year bowl ban, and a maximum of 20 new scholarship recruits for each of three years (down from the usual maximum of 25 recruits) for information given by Hart Lee Dykes, who was given immunity by the NCAA to report violations involving Oklahoma State, Illinois, Texas A&M and Oklahoma - although none of them were actually substantiated and he never attended three of the institutions (Oklahoma, Illisnois, and Texas A&M). These sanctions reduced Oklahoma State from a year in which their starting backfield included Barry Sanders AND Thurman Thomas to going 0-10-1 in 1990 and not being able to really compete until 1997 because of the lost revenues and recruits from not putting a winning team on the road and the fact that the sanctions convinced Jimmy Johnson and his assistants to leave for Miami. In effect it was a death penalty for a program for what a WR who had never gotten along with Johnson's testimony that a player of interest received a sports car - although it was never revealed who this player was or substantiated beyond what Dykes said.
Of course it was not as bad as what happened to SMU - but the NCAA absolutely destroyed a program that had won several bowl games in the 1980's, had a winning coach, and had just graduated possibly the greatest college running back ever - reducing it to a winless season and a position (until recently) dwelling in the bottom of the Big 12 (and the later years of the Big 8 before it).
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