Ryan Mutombo 2021 commits to Georgetown

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[Deleted]

Aug 14, 2020 11:37:30 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

Like I said, when he gets to Georgetown, Mutombo is going to have to work on his strength and footwork.  Judging by this video, he is going to need to work on his assertiveness as well. 

He needs to learn how to be nasty and bang down low also needs to be a little more quick especially when it comes down to defending the post against his man and getting to the spot for the rebound. 

Hopefully Uncle Pat will have all of his big men learning the post game the way all big men needs to learn.  You got to be moving with a sense of urgency and a sense of purpose when you play the post game.  Hopefully Mutombo learns that when he gets to the Hilltop.

[MCIGuy]

Aug 14, 2020 9:35:19 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

This is ridiculous. How did I "trash" Ighoefe? This is what I said about him, "Timothy barely played last season, and while he has nice size, he is clearly behind in skill development. To offer specifics, he was often out of place on defense, he fouled at an extremely high rate in his limited time (7.1 fouls per 40 minutes), and generally he is raw." I specifically then noted he could improve. Perhaps you disagree with my assessment, which is perfectly fine, but I am not "trashing" the kid. Further, your little riff on stats in your other post is similarly out of place. I literally use one stat here - how much he fouls. That is an objective stat, and one that realistically limits his time on the floor, without improvement. It is also entirely consistent with the conventional wisdom that young big men foul a lot. How is that not relevant, when the issue we are discussing is playing time?

As I said, it's perfectly fair if you are more bullish on Tim. Simply because I do not share that optimism does not mean I am "trashing him." I have been around here for a long time, and I do not intend on trashing anybody. Unlike some, I am not such a homer that I am going to ignore reality - if a player's performance is not good, I'll point that out, as I have in the past for guys like Mourning, Trey Dickerson, or, at times, Pickett. But, I have never had an ounce of ill will toward any of them, and in no way mean to trash anybody. If think assessing a guy is "trashing" them, then we will never come to agreement on this. I get that some fans only want the good, and suppress the bad, which is fine. But that doesn't mean people with other views are "trashing" the guys that you are optimistic about.

2. I do not have a strong desire to fill all 13 scholarships all the time. I am fine with leaving one or two open if that's ideal, BUT I do think that a situation like last year demonstrates why you need to have most of them filled. It's true that if you have 13 players, some simply will not play. You can work around that with class balance, etc. (hard to do when you lose 4 guys in one season), but it's never easy. That is partly why I do not mind recruiting a project like Ighoefe or Wilson. If they come in understanding that they will have to work for minutes, and may not get them, then I am fine having them on the roster.

Perhaps I am getting people on HT confused; maybe I’m thinking of some other 2003. But if I I’m not mistaken haven’t you been a person who has been one of the most consistent and most vocal in knocking players on this team over the past few years? Haven’t you been scolding them for lacking abilities and traits you found in guys you admired in other programs? Weren’t you pretty quick to jump in and take shots at Govan anytime someone had the nerve to post something good about him? Yeah, you not being a homer is an understatement. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But there’s nothing so great about being the opposite extreme either when you are a supposed fan of a team on a message board devoted to that team.

Hey, if you weren't that guy and I'm mistaken then I apologize.

I will point out once more that I don’t want to spend too much time disputing people’s opinions about Ighoefe’s potential in a recruiting thread dedicated to a high school recruit. So what I’ll do is take up this conversation in an Ighoefe thread in which I will go into further details. Apparently my record still precedes me to the point that people expect me to write a book’s worth of thoughts. But in all honesty I haven’t written any essays, let alone chapters, about the subject of Hoyas basketball in a long while. I hope people won’t be disappointed by the relative brevity of my take.
Until then I’ll just push back with some quick rebuttals.

First of there’s no statistic as useless as Per 40 Minutes. Who plays 40 minutes? Pretty much nobody. I’ll go further into this in the Ighoefe thread but a quick rundown preview of my take on this is that ebbs and flows, fatigue, adjustments, etc. would make it pretty difficult for any individual to play as well or as bad over 40 minutes as they had over a playing time from between 10 to 30 minutes. That makes the Per 40 stat useless in my book.

Also as I've argued previously there is too much of a small sample size so far as Ighoefe’s stats are concerned. Those who insist that isn’t a problem must then be consistent and take for face value Ighoefe having the fourth best DRtg on the squad last season Per 100 Possessions. You would also have to accept him being an efficient scorer in the paint based on his having the second best FG% team in conference play behind Wahab and way ahead of Yurtseven who came in a distant third. I’m guessing the Ighoefe doubters won’t do this because of the small sample size. So why readily accept it for his foul rate? Besides considering the at times porous defense folks on this site complain about from our perimeter guys because of lack of size, strength, defensive technique or rest, one would expect freshmen bigs like Wahab and Ighoefe, who put in an effort on defense, to pick up fouls.

I would be thrilled if Ryan Mutombo chose the Hoyas, not just because of legacy but because from all accounts he seems to keep getting better. And he is apparently a great student in the classroom and of the game of basketball. Maybe he will be a great player for Gtown as well. If he picks this program I hope he turns out to be a dominant force. This debate here that I’ve become caught up in though started because of my posted concern that in his first two seasons he could have trouble getting minutes that a recruit of his stature would expect unless there are some unexpected (currently) departures of more experienced bigs ahead of him. This led to a swift response from a good number of y’all, who dismissed out of hand the notion that even Ighoefe, as a junior, could get more minutes than him.

I could better understand this viewpoint being held by many of you if Ryan was Anthony Davis or Karl Townes or some other elite five star big man recruit coming in. But at this stage and time that’s not who Ryan is, at least not yet. I was a big fan of Govan and he had a higher ranking at this stage than Ryan does. Yet I don’t think Govan would necessarily come in and jump ahead of Ighoefe in the depth chart either if he had been in the Class of 2021.

So I’m trying to understand how Ryan is assumed to be automatically better than Ighoefe in terms of the small sample size from both. I keep reading about his feel for the game which is an intangible that can’t be measured and can’t be readily proven until we see Ryan play more, in particularly against college talent. I keep reading that Ighoefe is so more raw and that Ryan has more skills. Again based on what I observed I don’t see that at all. But for the sake of argument I’ll concede that. What else you got?

Anyone here is going to argue that from what you’ve seen Ryan is more athletic than Ighoefe? To do so would be crazy. From what I’ve seen of the two Ighoefe has the clear edge there. As a guy who can run the court (he does it even better than Wahab but I would guess not as well we Wilson). As a guy who can cover ground with cat quickness allowing him to switch and then speed back into the paint to contest. As a guy who can jump more quickly and more explosively. Ryan can improve his athleticism of course but Ighoefe can get better too. The point is I doubt Ryan would ever catch up to Ighoefe’s God given athletic gifts, no matter how hard he tried. It wouldn't automatically make Ighoefe a better basketball player but it is an advantage in a sport that craves high level athleticism.

Is Ryan ever going to grow more enough to have a greater wingspan than Ighoefe? Possible but I wouldn’t bet the house on something like that. Ighoefe’s wingspan is in a rarified category. Also Ighoefe came in with a body that 99% of college basketball freshman would never reach even by the end of their first year. That body allowed Ighoefe to not get pushed around like a typical freshman. Those of you who lack any appreciation for that should listen to Henry Sims and other guests of Dawg Talk discuss this particular topic. Who here thinks Ryan will have as strong a build of a freshman Ighoefe? Hell, who thinks he will have a better build than JUNIOR Ighoefe? This is something some folks don’t seem to acknowledge : that Ighoefe is going to keep making improvements in these areas as well; he won’t be standing in place for one plus year before Ryan’s possible arrival. If Ryan is able to leapfrog a dude who is a better athlete than him and one who has two years of experience on him in so far as battling men on the court, then we will have ourselves a true stud who is ready to dominate. I hope he’ll be that good. May be putting too much pressure on him though.

[Deleted]

I'm not going to compare Mutombo to Tim and yet I do agree that Tim is very athletic almost freaky athletic. However, my knock on Tim is that he fouls a lot.

Now I know that he's going to improve on his sloppy play that gets him into foul trouble but he's got to get it together quick so that he can stay on the floor.

Tim can and will be counted on to score when he gets into the game so I'm not worried about that. Tim needs to work on control agression to prevent hacking and he needs to work on some offensive moves to be versatile and fluid when trying to score inside and he needs to work on his footwork to accomplish the fluidity. Other than that, I think Tim will be very effective when he gets his playing time.

[Deleted]

I remember my coach telling our back up big before the game when he was reminding everyone what their role was, "5 fouls, don't let them get anything easy down there." I think Tim's fouling is getting a little overblown but we will see as his minutes and role increases.

I think Ryan definitely needs to work on his assertiveness and shooting with his left when going over his right shoulder in the post. He still tries to shoot with his right hand on those moves. Strength is also going to be an issue initially.

[Deleted]

Aug 14, 2020 16:06:01 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

I remember my coach telling our back up big before the game when he was reminding everyone what their role was, "5 fouls, don't let them get anything easy down there." I think Tim's fouling is getting a little overblown but we will see as his minutes and role increases.

I think Ryan definitely needs to work on his assertiveness and shooting with his left when going over his right shoulder in the post. He still tries to shoot with his right hand on those moves. Strength is also going to be an issue initially.

What position did you play in school and what level (HS, College)?

[mdtd]

Aug 14, 2020 15:21:26 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Aug 14, 2020 9:35:19 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

This is ridiculous. How did I "trash" Ighoefe? This is what I said about him, "Timothy barely played last season, and while he has nice size, he is clearly behind in skill development. To offer specifics, he was often out of place on defense, he fouled at an extremely high rate in his limited time (7.1 fouls per 40 minutes), and generally he is raw." I specifically then noted he could improve. Perhaps you disagree with my assessment, which is perfectly fine, but I am not "trashing" the kid. Further, your little riff on stats in your other post is similarly out of place. I literally use one stat here - how much he fouls. That is an objective stat, and one that realistically limits his time on the floor, without improvement. It is also entirely consistent with the conventional wisdom that young big men foul a lot. How is that not relevant, when the issue we are discussing is playing time?

As I said, it's perfectly fair if you are more bullish on Tim. Simply because I do not share that optimism does not mean I am "trashing him." I have been around here for a long time, and I do not intend on trashing anybody. Unlike some, I am not such a homer that I am going to ignore reality - if a player's performance is not good, I'll point that out, as I have in the past for guys like Mourning, Trey Dickerson, or, at times, Pickett. But, I have never had an ounce of ill will toward any of them, and in no way mean to trash anybody. If think assessing a guy is "trashing" them, then we will never come to agreement on this. I get that some fans only want the good, and suppress the bad, which is fine. But that doesn't mean people with other views are "trashing" the guys that you are optimistic about.

2. I do not have a strong desire to fill all 13 scholarships all the time. I am fine with leaving one or two open if that's ideal, BUT I do think that a situation like last year demonstrates why you need to have most of them filled. It's true that if you have 13 players, some simply will not play. You can work around that with class balance, etc. (hard to do when you lose 4 guys in one season), but it's never easy. That is partly why I do not mind recruiting a project like Ighoefe or Wilson. If they come in understanding that they will have to work for minutes, and may not get them, then I am fine having them on the roster.

First of there’s no statistic as useless as Per 40 Minutes. Who plays 40 minutes? Pretty much nobody. I’ll go further into this in the Ighoefe thread but a quick rundown preview of my take on this is that ebbs and flows, fatigue, adjustments, etc. would make it pretty difficult for any individual to play as well or as bad over 40 minutes as they had over a playing time from between 10 to 30 minutes. That makes the Per 40 stat useless in my book.

Also as I've argued previously there is too much of a small sample size so far as Ighoefe’s stats are concerned. Those who insist that isn’t a problem must then be consistent and take for face value Ighoefe having the fourth best DRtg on the squad last season Per 100 Possessions. You would also have to accept him being an efficient scorer in the paint based on his having the second best FG% team in conference play behind Wahab and way ahead of Yurtseven who came in a distant third. I’m guessing the Ighoefe doubters won’t do this because of the small sample size. So why readily accept it for his foul rate? Besides considering the at times porous defense folks on this site complain about from our perimeter guys because of lack of size, strength, defensive technique or rest, one would expect freshmen bigs like Wahab and Ighoefe, who put in an effort on defense, to pick up fouls.

These are the two points that really caught me off guard. First off, in fouls per 40, it shows how often a player fouls. Having 7.1 fouls per 40 means that Tim would have five fouls in 28.2 minutes of play. He fouls a lot, as most freshman bigs do. That's all that says. Per 40 in this case makes sense. If we were comparing the points of Jaden Robinson to Jagan Mosely and to say that Jaden was as good of a scorer since their numbers were so close, then it would be used wrong. But in this case, it makes sense to me.

For this next part, you have to consider the context in how they got their buckets. Omer got his points by creating his own shot usually, while Tim just got fed layups and dunks. That's not a knock against Tim, but you do have to add that context for the stat. Omer was a better scorer than Tim. If Tim was creating his shots like Omer had to, those numbers would be nearly as high.

Tim isn't creating many of his points. It's not who he is, yet. Which is completely fine. Guys who don't need the ball to be effective are very important, also. Guys like Omer or Ryan have more ability to create their own shots. It makes offense easier for everyone else and is a huge skill set for a guy to have.

[MCIGuy]

mdtd, I bumped the Ighoefe thread to address the Per 40 issue. I don't think we should be sidetracking this thread to keep up a discussion regarding Ighoefe's fouling rate. Hopefully soon I'll respond to some other topics of debate surrounding him in that thread soon.

[hoyarooter]

I will point out once more that I don’t want to spend too much time disputing people’s opinions about Ighoefe’s potential in a recruiting thread dedicated to a high school recruit. So what I’ll do is take up this conversation in an Ighoefe thread in which I will go into further details. Apparently my record still precedes me to the point that people expect me to write a book’s worth of thoughts. But in all honesty I haven’t written any essays, let alone chapters, about the subject of Hoyas basketball in a long while. I hope people won’t be disappointed by the relative brevity of my take.
Until then I’ll just push back with some quick rebuttals.

Until now.

I've missed you, MCI.

[MCIGuy]

Hey what I did write didn't even feel long. It felt like a tweet. 👍

[hoyasaxa2003]

Aug 14, 2020 15:21:26 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Perhaps I am getting people on HT confused; maybe I’m thinking of some other 2003. But if I I’m not mistaken haven’t you been a person who has been one of the most consistent and most vocal in knocking players on this team over the past few years? Haven’t you been scolding them for lacking abilities and traits you found in guys you admired in other programs? Weren’t you pretty quick to jump in and take shots at Govan anytime someone had the nerve to post something good about him? Yeah, you not being a homer is an understatement. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But there’s nothing so great about being the opposite extreme either when you are a supposed fan of a team on a message board devoted to that team.

Hey, if you weren't that guy and I'm mistaken then I apologize.

MCI, with all due respect, you are mistaken. I realize that you and I have not seen eye-to-eye on things in the past, which is fine, but you are totally off base on this. I was always a big fan and defender of Jessie Govan. I am not going to waste my time going back into the threads, but I consistently defended him when people on here were (in my mind, unfairly) piling on top of him and blaming him for the team's problems, even though he was our best player. And, I did the same for Yurtseven this year when he got much the same criticism.

As far as "lacking abilities and traits..." I have no idea what you are talking about. I rarely, if ever talk about guys in other programs (and frankly, I do not spend a ton of time on that, particularly teams/guys we don't play), and I think you'd be at a loss in trying to find examples of me saying I admire X player on whatever other team. I do admire guys and recruits who have skills and are efficient, but Georgetown has had plenty of those over the years (like Govan!). I have had my fair share of criticism on Ewing (especially defense), perhaps that is what you are thinking of.

As far as being a "homer," you can be a huge fan of the team (as I am) without having to be unrealistic. Perhaps I am guilty of being less optimistic, but when we are on the court, I am a huge fan and supporter of the team. I have seen every minute of every game in the last decade, follow the team closely, and very much want our team to succeed. That said, I am not going to be unrealistic, and if that makes me less optimistic than others, so be it.

As for as "knocking" players, again, I beg to differ. I have no problem pointing out weakness in a guy's play, but I have never said anything negative about the guys' character, drive, etc. If saying that Trey Mourning wasn't an effective player (truth), or that Pickett has had problems on offense (truth) is "knocking" those players, then maybe I am guilty of that, but I don't think that's what you mean. So, apology accepted.

[MCIGuy]

Kinda embarrassing to be that way off base in regards to attributing posts to you that you never wrote, especially when it comes to Govan. My bad, 2003. Sorry about that.

[emkmd]

I thought this was the Ryan Mutombo thread.

[paranoia2]

Ryan Mutombo will be a welcome addition to the program if he decides to come. I do remember that Dikembe Mutombo was laughed at due to his lack of basketball skills and awkwardness in the paint. “But wiser heads noted he ran the court with metronomic efficiency” & he did not go for pump fakes when defending.

Another big man named Roy Hibbert had to be taught how to run. Was thought to be an afterthought signee. A couple years later he was doing a spin move at the top of the key vs. Ohio State in the NCAA tournament making Gus Johnson go crazy.

Tim Has physicality that the 2 greats above did not have. He certainly can run the floor, is strong as an ox and seems like a hard worker. His HC is Patrick. I personally think Tim will be like the Dikembe & Roy and become a serious player.

Never enough depth in the big dance. Room for a Ryan Mutombo.

[LCPolo18]

[s4hoyas]

Come home, Ryan!...Lets Go!

[MCIGuy]

Hopefully he'll bring a friend with him. A certain five star recruit.

[dchoya72]

Has this board's commentary "encouraged" him to commit...moving up his spring '21 decision-making?

[Gammo]

I really hope he has chosen Georgetown! We would be very lucky and happy!!