DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 19, 2018 12:10:08 GMT -5
Any updates? Is there space to schedule a game before visiting Illinois on Nov. 13th? A home game before the 11th? Since we have so many new faces and one who has been away for long, a good home cupcake game would be nice before the first away test. No walkover games, please. Did we not learn anything from last year's early season exhibitions? Ideal opener: at George Mason (16-17 in 2017-18). Winnable? Check. Local interest? Check. Avoids paying a guarantee check to an opponent? Check. Avoids writing another rent check to Capital One? Check.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jul 19, 2018 12:23:43 GMT -5
Any updates? Is there space to schedule a game before visiting Illinois on Nov. 13th? A home game before the 11th? Since we have so many new faces and one who has been away for long, a good home cupcake game would be nice before the first away test. No walkover games, please. Did we not learn anything from last year's early season exhibitions? Ideal opener: at George Mason (16-17 in 2017-18). Winnable? Check. Local interest? Check. Avoids paying a guarantee check to an opponent? Check. Avoids writing another rent check to Capital One? Check. True, that's what I meant by "good home cupcake". I would add that that opponent's roster does not have five senior starters, but similar experience to our team. I haven't checked GM's roster.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jul 19, 2018 15:22:53 GMT -5
Good luck if we play Howard. Cole and McWilliams (?) looked great in Kenner league game I saw last weekend. Would be a great test for our defense. Those guys looked like polished post guards and really looked in control of the offense.
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Post by centercourt400s on Jul 19, 2018 18:06:04 GMT -5
Any updates? Is there space to schedule a game before visiting Illinois on Nov. 13th? A home game before the 11th? Since we have so many new faces and one who has been away for long, a good home cupcake game would be nice before the first away test. No walkover games, please. Did we not learn anything from last year's early season exhibitions? Ideal opener: at George Mason (16-17 in 2017-18). Winnable? Check. Local interest? Check. Avoids paying a guarantee check to an opponent? Check. Avoids writing another rent check to Capital One? Check. EVERY team schedules at least some "walkover" games. Why should Georgetown be different?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jul 19, 2018 18:22:42 GMT -5
Any updates? Is there space to schedule a game before visiting Illinois on Nov. 13th? A home game before the 11th? Since we have so many new faces and one who has been away for long, a good home cupcake game would be nice before the first away test. No walkover games, please. Did we not learn anything from last year's early season exhibitions? Ideal opener: at George Mason (16-17 in 2017-18). Winnable? Check. Local interest? Check. Avoids paying a guarantee check to an opponent? Check. Avoids writing another rent check to Capital One? Check. We aren't playing a mid-major on the road for an opener. Plus with some buzz created for our freshman guards, why would we open on the road?
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jul 20, 2018 5:54:27 GMT -5
Cupcake games are not just easy wins. They enable coaches to test out all sorts of lineups, scenarios, players, schemes, etc. without having to take a loss while doing so. In that respect they are extremely valuable experiences. I still do not comprehend why some fans still find a way to complain about these games when they are simply a part of what the teams needs to do.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jul 20, 2018 7:13:05 GMT -5
Cupcake games are not just easy wins. They enable coaches to test out all sorts of lineups, scenarios, players, schemes, etc. without having to take a loss while doing so. In that respect they are extremely valuable experiences. I still do not comprehend why some fans still find a way to complain about these games when they are simply a part of what the teams needs to do. All true but I thought that JT III struck the perfect balance for his teams in terms of mixing in cupcakes with quality games in the pre-conference. Ewing should move in that direction. Last year was hopefully the exception to allow a new coach to implement a new system with several new players. .
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Post by centercourt400s on Jul 20, 2018 8:48:28 GMT -5
Cupcake games are not just easy wins. They enable coaches to test out all sorts of lineups, scenarios, players, schemes, etc. without having to take a loss while doing so. In that respect they are extremely valuable experiences. I still do not comprehend why some fans still find a way to complain about these games when they are simply a part of what the teams needs to do. All true but I thought that JT III struck the perfect balance for his teams in terms of mixing in cupcakes with quality games in the pre-conference. Ewing should move in that direction. Last year was hopefully the exception to allow a new coach to implement a new system with several new players. . Far from a perfect balance IMO... JT3's schedules were regularly lauded as some of the most challenging in college basketball. And where exactly did that leave the team over the last few years of his tenure? The key is to strike a balance among what your team can realistically accomplish, what is needed to let them learn but to still challenge them, preparing them for conference play, as well as building a tournament resume. JT3's results speak for themselves. We'll need a couple more years of Ewing before we can really gauge the effectiveness of his scheduling strategy.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jul 20, 2018 9:36:09 GMT -5
Cupcake games are not just easy wins. They enable coaches to test out all sorts of lineups, scenarios, players, schemes, etc. without having to take a loss while doing so. In that respect they are extremely valuable experiences. I still do not comprehend why some fans still find a way to complain about these games when they are simply a part of what the teams needs to do. Against teams ranked 300+, yes they are just easy wins. I distinctly remember watching several of our cupcake games last year, where by the second half, it was clear that not all the players were giving it their all. That's what happens when you play multiple games against horrible teams. There's also a big difference between having one or two 300+ opponents, and having 7 (including the worst team in Division I). I don't understand why so much of this debate falls seems to be (a) "we need to play play cupcakes" and (b) that means "we need to play all top teams." There's a big middle ground in there. For example, instead of playing team 351 of 351, why not play team 250? Team 250 is still really bad, an almost certain win, and allows the coach to do all the things you outline above without risking losing. JT3 got into trouble because his teams were bad overall. It wasn't his schedule - in later years he actually scheduled some of the same awful teams we played last year. In 2016, we played Bryant (346), Maryland Eastern Shore (318), and in 2017 we played Howard (338) and Coppin State (343).
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jul 20, 2018 9:59:12 GMT -5
That assumes the coaches have a crystal ball as to who is going to end up 250 versus 350, and that the estimation of that element outweighs other factors, such as relationships with the opposing coaches, style of play, etc.
And YES- there are games (during exams, for instance) when you want and need to play an awful team. When you play a bad team that still can land some punches (UNC Asheville, for instance), you can lose that game, which should not happen.
I was and am a huge proponent of JT III, but I feel that his scheduling being too hard is one of the very few legitimate points of criticism against him.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jul 20, 2018 11:48:28 GMT -5
I'm not crazy about the season opener, but if we win, I will in delusional mode.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jul 20, 2018 11:52:39 GMT -5
On the other hand something tells me that a lot is riding on how well we do this year. That might just be the understatement of the year! I would love to see Ewing turn these kids loose even more so that people like Mac, Akinjo, Pickett, and Govan can really showcase their array of skills. We desperately need t use the talent we have to drum up excitement going into the next couple of years as far as recruiting is concerned.
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Post by HometownHoya on Jul 20, 2018 11:59:30 GMT -5
On the other hand something tells me that a lot is riding on how well we do this year. That might just be the understatement of the year! I would love to see Ewing turn these kids loose even more so that people like Mac, Akinjo, Pickett, and Govan can really showcase their array of skills. We desperately need t use the talent we have to drum up excitement going into the next couple of years as far as recruiting is concerned. I agree that this year will be key for Pat's tenure with the Hoyas. A lot of the elite guys seem to be waiting until the spring to commit, so if we can have a good showing then Pat's recruiting persistence will pay off. Plus I selfishly hope we outperform expectations...it's been too long since we've had more ups then downs.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jul 20, 2018 12:03:33 GMT -5
That assumes the coaches have a crystal ball as to who is going to end up 250 versus 350, and that the estimation of that element outweighs other factors, such as relationships with the opposing coaches, style of play, etc. No doubt there's an element of guessing, but the very bottom basically stays the very bottom. SWAC and MEAC are generally full of 300+ teams, with one or two teams that are slightly better. It's not hard to predict the basement will be, for the most part. I actually think this is more true for the 150-250ish type teams. Those are often better programs who are developing, etc. so sometimes their quality can vary substantially from year to year. That does mean there's more risk in scheduling them - in the sense that you could get a really competitive game or a really bad one. A good example of that is Richmond. Between 2013 and 2018, they were ranked between 53 and 99, then the bottom fell out last year and they ended up 181.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Jul 20, 2018 12:09:50 GMT -5
That assumes the coaches have a crystal ball as to who is going to end up 250 versus 350, and that the estimation of that element outweighs other factors, such as relationships with the opposing coaches, style of play, etc. No doubt there's an element of guessing, but the very bottom basically stays the very bottom. SWAC and MEAC are generally full of 300+ teams, with one or two teams that are slightly better. It's not hard to predict the basement will be, for the most part. I actually think this is more true for the 150-250ish type teams. Those are often better programs who are developing, etc. so sometimes their quality can vary substantially from year to year. That does mean there's more risk in scheduling them - in the sense that you could get a really competitive game or a really bad one. A good example of that is Richmond. Between 2013 and 2018, they were ranked between 53 and 99, then the bottom fell out last year and they ended up 181. Dude, nothing you say is going to convince hl4eva that playing 9 sub-300 RPI each year is a bad idea. He either doesn't understand, or consciously disregards, the objective fact that savvy scheduling in the 150-250 range is both doable and incredibly helpful to tourney profile. This conversation has been hashed and rehashed about a million times. Time to move on.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jul 20, 2018 15:18:12 GMT -5
On the other hand something tells me that a lot is riding on how well we do this year. That might just be the understatement of the year! I would love to see Ewing turn these kids loose even more so that people like Mac, Akinjo, Pickett, and Govan can really showcase their array of skills. We desperately need t use the talent we have to drum up excitement going into the next couple of years as far as recruiting is concerned. I agree that this year will be key for Pat's tenure with the Hoyas. A lot of the elite guys seem to be waiting until the spring to commit, so if we can have a good showing then Pat's recruiting persistence will pay off. Plus I selfishly hope we outperform expectations...it's been too long since we've had more ups then downs. I have a strong feeling we will outperform expectations. A lot has changed in the Big East and with us. Now we did lose Derrickson. Man I wish we had him for one more year!
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jul 20, 2018 16:31:34 GMT -5
Between Govan, Pickett, McClung and Akinjo we will have many offensive weapons on the floor. Plus, Blair off the bench. That’s why we could afford to have Walker start as the rebounder, like JYD back in the day.
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bigskyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bigskyhoya on Jul 20, 2018 16:40:23 GMT -5
Between Govan, Pickett, McClung and Akinjo we will have many offensive weapons on the floor. Plus, Blair off the bench. That’s why we could afford to have Walker start as the rebounder, like JYD back in the day. [/qu I think Kaleb will start but I would prefer Walker, for the reasons you express. Unless Kaleb shows great improvement, he won't be starting for long. I also believe Trey will contribute, especially as a rebounder.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jul 20, 2018 17:25:11 GMT -5
All true but I thought that JT III struck the perfect balance for his teams in terms of mixing in cupcakes with quality games in the pre-conference. Ewing should move in that direction. Last year was hopefully the exception to allow a new coach to implement a new system with several new players. . Far from a perfect balance IMO... JT3's schedules were regularly lauded as some of the most challenging in college basketball. And where exactly did that leave the team over the last few years of his tenure? The key is to strike a balance among what your team can realistically accomplish, what is needed to let them learn but to still challenge them, preparing them for conference play, as well as building a tournament resume. JT3's results speak for themselves. We'll need a couple more years of Ewing before we can really gauge the effectiveness of his scheduling strategy. Not interested in reviving the JT III debate as I was pushing for his replacement in his last season,but it is not fair to judge his scheduling and his career by the end of a long and generally successful career. I may be alone in thinking that he always mixed in some cupcakes with challenges. Did not work out when team collapsed but I will always agree with the approach, particularly when you are recruiting quality players.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jul 24, 2018 6:18:04 GMT -5
No doubt there's an element of guessing, but the very bottom basically stays the very bottom. SWAC and MEAC are generally full of 300+ teams, with one or two teams that are slightly better. It's not hard to predict the basement will be, for the most part. I actually think this is more true for the 150-250ish type teams. Those are often better programs who are developing, etc. so sometimes their quality can vary substantially from year to year. That does mean there's more risk in scheduling them - in the sense that you could get a really competitive game or a really bad one. A good example of that is Richmond. Between 2013 and 2018, they were ranked between 53 and 99, then the bottom fell out last year and they ended up 181. Dude, nothing you say is going to convince hl4eva that playing 9 sub-300 RPI each year is a bad idea. He either doesn't understand, or consciously disregards, the objective fact that savvy scheduling in the 150-250 range is both doable and incredibly helpful to tourney profile. This conversation has been hashed and rehashed about a million times. Time to move on. Wrong again. I completely understand the scheduling philosophy that you and many others on this board push; I simply disagree with it. To be perfectly clear: I believe that the intangible benefits of playing some really bad teams outweighs the tangible issues you and others have articulated. To put a fine point on it: I am perfectly okay with being left out of the NCAAs based on X sub-300 games when substituting X 200-250 games would have us at a 10 seed. I will not capitulate to the abomination that is RPI.
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