jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,379
|
Post by jwp91 on Jan 24, 2019 18:45:02 GMT -5
Akinjo is a player who hasn’t adapted how to get his shot at this level. For now, he is a 12% shooter.
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,396
|
Post by EtomicB on Jan 24, 2019 18:59:03 GMT -5
|
|
71hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 498
|
Post by 71hoya on Jan 24, 2019 19:34:31 GMT -5
Therefore Akinjo should only take 3 point shots.
|
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 24, 2019 22:20:35 GMT -5
HS2003 do you really think that Akinjo is a 13% shooter? That's the question. Do you think that he is Big Nate or even Trey as a shooter? Personally I think Akinjo is a decent/good shooter that's in a slump....so if you agree with me, how do you suggest that he gets out of the slump? If you disagree, do you want to bench him or play 4 on 5? Because I hope you agree that we are better with Akinjo on the court and when he's on the court he has to be a threat to open the court for his teammates... I don't - I think he's clearly going to be better than 13% from two. The fact that he's much better from three, draws a lot of fouls, and makes free throws at a high rate is the main reason why his efficiency is still decent despite the poor shooting. I don't think he should be totally discouraged from shooting twos, because you need balance, I would just like him to play a bit more under control. I can live with a 2-6 night from two, but when you're 1-9 or 0-6 in multiple games (decided by single digits), then it's more than just working out of a slump. Most of it is poor shot selection. The guy can't possibly make a lot of the shots he's throwing up because he cannot get to the rim. He needs to learn that he can't do that and figure out ways around it. But, I don't think the answer is for him to continually go full-steam ahead from two. He shot 45% from two in the OOC, so he can clearly do better, but I do think much of what is driving the 12% is harder defense and bigger guys in the Big East. |
|
guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,665
|
Post by guru on Jan 24, 2019 22:39:59 GMT -5
Missed shots are essentially turnovers? LOL. The lack of understanding and application of data here is mind boggling. For starters, when you take a shot you have a chance of scoring. I think you're taking this too literally. Obviously, taking a shot is better than a turnover. But, in instances when your shooting is absolutely terrible, it's not as different as you might think. This was specifically in reference to Akinjo and his two point shooting. In the Big East he's shooting 5-39 (12.8%), or 1-28 (3.6%) if you take out the Providence game. So yes, a shot (any shot) is clearly better than a turnover. But when you are shooting 12.8% from two, it isn't as far off as you'd think. To show you what I mean: - If you turn the ball over, you score 0 on the possession. - If you shoot 12.8% on twos, you score 0.256 per possession. Or, if you want to use the 1/28 shooting excluding Providence, that's 0.07 points per possession. So sure. Shooting 12.8% is better than a turnover to some small degree, but when one of your highest usage players is missing a shot 87.2% of the time that's particularly bad. (And yes, I know some percentage of that 87.2% you get an offensive rebound, so the analysis above isn't exact. The point is that shooting this bad is really awful and kills us, particularly in close games.) But, I do not disagree with your general statement that a shot is better than a turnover. Of course it is. (somehow posted the below response in a different thread entirely. Apologies to those who are seeing it twice) Yes I was taking it very literally, but partly to give a little bit of a defense to Akinjo. The criticism of his game on the board borders on the bizarre to me. He's a freshman, and often plays like it. He's also a really good player, with the potential to be one of the best point guards ever to play here. He had 11 assists in a game he didn't start and yet the tenor of discussion about him on this board in that game's aftermath is largely negative. Ideally, he has four years of growth ahead of him. And yes, he needs to be shooting, and shooting smarter. But for goodness sake, he's not even 20 games into his college career. I love what I've seen from him so far. |
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,681
|
Post by tashoya on Jan 24, 2019 22:45:54 GMT -5
I think you're taking this too literally. Obviously, taking a shot is better than a turnover. But, in instances when your shooting is absolutely terrible, it's not as different as you might think. This was specifically in reference to Akinjo and his two point shooting. In the Big East he's shooting 5-39 (12.8%), or 1-28 (3.6%) if you take out the Providence game. So yes, a shot (any shot) is clearly better than a turnover. But when you are shooting 12.8% from two, it isn't as far off as you'd think. To show you what I mean: - If you turn the ball over, you score 0 on the possession. - If you shoot 12.8% on twos, you score 0.256 per possession. Or, if you want to use the 1/28 shooting excluding Providence, that's 0.07 points per possession. So sure. Shooting 12.8% is better than a turnover to some small degree, but when one of your highest usage players is missing a shot 87.2% of the time that's particularly bad. (And yes, I know some percentage of that 87.2% you get an offensive rebound, so the analysis above isn't exact. The point is that shooting this bad is really awful and kills us, particularly in close games.) But, I do not disagree with your general statement that a shot is better than a turnover. Of course it is. (somehow posted the below response in a different thread entirely. Apologies to those who are seeing it twice) Yes I was taking it very literally, but partly to give a little bit of a defense to Akinjo. The criticism of his game on the board borders on the bizarre to me. He's a freshman, and often plays like it. He's also a really good player, with the potential to be one of the best point guards ever to play here. He had 11 assists in a game he didn't start and yet the tenor of discussion about him on this board in that game's aftermath is largely negative. Ideally, he has four years of growth ahead of him. And yes, he needs to be shooting, and shooting smarter. But for goodness sake, he's not even 20 games into his college career. I love what I've seen from him so far. And, he's a very young freshman at that. Not just in terms of the ages of typical basketball players. Young for all freshmen. For me, some of his shots come from having some "the man" mentality. I want him to keep that as his game improves. I want him to want the ball in pressure situations. Growing pains are just part of the deal. He'll figure it out. It just may not be as quickly as fans would hope. And for the vast majority of freshmen, that's always the case. |
|
|
|
Post by iheartdurenbros on Jan 25, 2019 6:27:26 GMT -5
(somehow posted the below response in a different thread entirely. Apologies to those who are seeing it twice) Yes I was taking it very literally, but partly to give a little bit of a defense to Akinjo. The criticism of his game on the board borders on the bizarre to me. He's a freshman, and often plays like it. He's also a really good player, with the potential to be one of the best point guards ever to play here. He had 11 assists in a game he didn't start and yet the tenor of discussion about him on this board in that game's aftermath is largely negative. Ideally, he has four years of growth ahead of him. And yes, he needs to be shooting, and shooting smarter. But for goodness sake, he's not even 20 games into his college career. I love what I've seen from him so far. And, he's a very young freshman at that. Not just in terms of the ages of typical basketball players. Young for all freshmen. For me, some of his shots come from having some "the man" mentality. I want him to keep that as his game improves. I want him to want the ball in pressure situations. Growing pains are just part of the deal. He'll figure it out. It just may not be as quickly as fans would hope. And for the vast majority of freshmen, that's always the case. Big Coach has often said that it is much easier to get kids like Akinjo to change (in this case to play a less hero ball) than it is to instill the intensity and willingness to place a team on his back occasionally. It is pretty clear that Ewing believes that as well (see also McClung). |
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,656
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 25, 2019 6:37:52 GMT -5
Completely agree. By the time you get a kid at 18/19 years of age, he is either a dog or he isn’t. Pat seems to like dogs. The freshman will only get better.
|
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Jan 25, 2019 10:05:52 GMT -5
He's absolutely horrible at finishing. However I give him a lot more leeway than guys like Jeremiah Rivers, Nate Lubeck, Trey Dickerson because Akinjo has two elite skills (ball handling and passing/vision and its highly likely that someone who can reach those elite skills will also be able to elevate his skill level with finishing.
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,379
|
Post by jwp91 on Jan 25, 2019 10:13:56 GMT -5
Akinjo is a great player. He just needs to continue to adapt to this level. His height and lack of explosion mean that he is susceptible to blocks close to the rim. He will become more clever about how to get his shot off. In the meantime, he is a great 3 point shooter, and if he can continue finding open players for shots like he did last game, he will be exactly what we need.
|
|
Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,928
|
Post by Filo on Jan 25, 2019 10:15:25 GMT -5
He's absolutely horrible at finishing. However I give him a lot more leeway than guys like Jeremiah Rivers, Nate Lubeck, Trey Dickerson because Akinjo has two elite skills (ball handling and passing/vision and its highly likely that someone who can reach those elite skills will also be able to elevate his skill level with finishing. Agree that it is finishing that is the problem, and it is the main (perhaps only) criticism I have of his shot selection. I think he is having problems finishing simply because he has not yet adjusted to the size and skill of defenders in the paint. He needs to learn and figure out what to do (e.g. don't go in as deep, look for more floaters, etc.). I am confident that he will make that adjustment. The irony was that there as a lot of hand-wringing around here before the season that Mac was going to have a really tough adjustment given his HS competition. Mac's 3-point shooting has been an issue but he hasn't had as much of a problem adjusting and finishing, most likely because of his athleticism and leaping ability. |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Jan 25, 2019 10:28:01 GMT -5
He's absolutely horrible at finishing. However I give him a lot more leeway than guys like Jeremiah Rivers, Nate Lubeck, Trey Dickerson because Akinjo has two elite skills (ball handling and passing/vision and its highly likely that someone who can reach those elite skills will also be able to elevate his skill level with finishing. Agree that it is finishing that is the problem, and it is the main (perhaps only) criticism I have of his shot selection. I think he is having problems finishing simply because he has not yet adjusted to the size and skill of defenders in the paint. He needs to learn and figure out what to do (e.g. don't go in as deep, look for more floaters, etc.). I am confident that he will make that adjustment. The irony was that there as a lot of hand-wringing around here before the season that Mac was going to have a really tough adjustment given his HS competition. Mac's 3-point shooting has been an issue but he hasn't had as much of a problem adjusting and finishing, most likely because of his athleticism and leaping ability. Akinjo's 3s were off as well at the beginning of the season but seems like he's adjusted to the college 3pt line and cavernous pro stadiums. So really if he can just start finishing he will be unstoppable. |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Jan 25, 2019 10:29:16 GMT -5
He should be able to reverse layup and protect his layup with the rim
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 10:41:04 GMT -5
This is so silly. Do you guys honestly think this kid is going to shoot 13% from 2 for the rest of his career because that's how you guys are acting... We're 6 games into BE play in his Freshman year.
He's not only missing shots at the rim, he's missing 15-18fters that are usually automatic for him. He's slumping, he's being game planned against, and every game he's facing top defensive guys guys like Simon and Sacar Anim. He's a smart kid he'll figure it out, and all these hot takes will look silly eventually just like the McClung ones.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,987
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 25, 2019 10:42:09 GMT -5
This is so silly. Do you guys honestly think this kid is going to shoot 13% from 2 for the rest of his career because that's how you guys are acting... He's not only missing shots at the rim, he's missing 15-18fters that are usually automatic for him. He's slumping, he's being game planned against, and every game he's facing top defensive guys guys like Simon and Sacar Anim. He's a smart kid he'll figure it out and all these hot takes will look silly eventually just like the McClung ones. I wish I could like this like 15x. This thread has gotten ridiculous. |
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 25, 2019 11:48:21 GMT -5
This is so silly. Do you guys honestly think this kid is going to shoot 13% from 2 for the rest of his career because that's how you guys are acting... We're 6 games into BE play in his Freshman year. He's not only missing shots at the rim, he's missing 15-18fters that are usually automatic for him. He's slumping, he's being game planned against, and every game he's facing top defensive guys guys like Simon and Sacar Anim. He's a smart kid he'll figure it out, and all these hot takes will look silly eventually just like the McClung ones. I don't think anybody thinks Akinjo is going to shoot 13% from 2 the rest of his career, or even this season. I haven't seen anybody say that. To the extent I contributed to the thread going downhill, I apologize. I think most of us would agree that Akinjo is (a) talented, (b) crucially important for this team going forward, (c) he's had some difficulty adjusting to the bigger size of the Big East, plus (d) he's in a bit of a slump. I still firmly believe that it would be a better usage of Akinjo, and beneficial to the team, to take fewer twos until he is more adept at finishing (again, not saying he shouldn't take some of these shots, just not necessary 9-10 a game) because I want to have a better shot at winning now, but I am in no way trying to be negative on the kid as a whole. I really love the entire freshman class and hope they form a nice core going forward. |
|
hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,839
|
Post by hoyazeke on Jan 25, 2019 11:54:55 GMT -5
This is so silly. Do you guys honestly think this kid is going to shoot 13% from 2 for the rest of his career because that's how you guys are acting... He's not only missing shots at the rim, he's missing 15-18fters that are usually automatic for him. He's slumping, he's being game planned against, and every game he's facing top defensive guys guys like Simon and Sacar Anim. He's a smart kid he'll figure it out and all these hot takes will look silly eventually just like the McClung ones. I wish I could like this like 15x. This thread has gotten ridiculous. I agree...I was reading the postings thinking that I must be watching a different game. Akinjo has been missing a lot of his off the dribble mid range Js, which as Yaboy stated, were money early in the season....these shots aren't anymore contested than they were in the OOC.. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 3:02:07 GMT -5
He's not only missing shots at the rim, he's missing 15-18fters that are usually automatic for him. He's slumping, he's being game planned against, and every game he's facing top defensive guys guys like Simon and Sacar Anim. He's a smart kid he'll figure it out, and all these hot takes will look silly eventually just like the McClung ones. I'm not sure where you're getting this assessment. I think we all hope he can figure it out, but this has nothing to do with a shooting slump or an opponent game plan. His jump shot has actually been good when he gets a clean look. His only significant problem in conference play, and it's been a critical one, is that his shots are getting blocked or altered over and over again in the paint. Akinjo's blocked field goal attempts by game:
2 Butler, 1 St Johns, 1 Xavier, 2 Providence, 4 Marquette, 1 Creighton That's at least 11 recorded blocked attempts in BE play. So his shots "aren't falling" because they often aren't even getting up. And how many other would-be layup or floater attempts have been badly altered to very low percentage tries? His future is bright, but this area needs work if we're going to win more than a couple more games this year. This is why the game plan against him matters imo. He's shooting a low percentage because he's taking the shots the defense wants to give him, contested 2's at the rim. Him taking those shots doesn't happen organically. Those are shots the defense is trying to force him into by their coverage. He doesn't need to figure out how to finish those shots better today. He has to figure out how to not get into those situations, or use other options once he gets there. The scout against him says he’s either going to shoot a 3 or try and get to the rim and dump it off to a big. So the game plan is to put a bigger defender on him, go over the top of screens and funnel him towards a larger defender in the paint. The big shouldn't help off until he commits, make him finish. He's not a high leaper so he’ll struggle to finish over size, and a lot of times he looks to draw a foul more than he is focused on finishing. The slump comment is in reference to his 15 to 18ft jumpshots that are normally automatic but haven’t been falling recently. Having that shot back would help open things up for him a bit even though that's a shot an opposing coach will live with. Not having it contributes to his desire to force the issue and get to the rim. He's played way above average for a rookie, but he's still just a frosh about to play his 7th game in the BE so I think we should relax a bit. I’m not saying he’s going to figure it out by Sunday. Hopefully he spends 4 years here, so give him time to grow and develop. |
|
|
|
Post by HamptonHoya on Jan 26, 2019 11:17:19 GMT -5
I'm not sure where you're getting this assessment. I think we all hope he can figure it out, but this has nothing to do with a shooting slump or an opponent game plan. His jump shot has actually been good when he gets a clean look. His only significant problem in conference play, and it's been a critical one, is that his shots are getting blocked or altered over and over again in the paint. Akinjo's blocked field goal attempts by game:
2 Butler, 1 St Johns, 1 Xavier, 2 Providence, 4 Marquette, 1 Creighton That's at least 11 recorded blocked attempts in BE play. So his shots "aren't falling" because they often aren't even getting up. And how many other would-be layup or floater attempts have been badly altered to very low percentage tries? His future is bright, but this area needs work if we're going to win more than a couple more games this year. This is why the game plan against him matters imo. He's shooting a low percentage because he's taking the shots the defense wants to give him, contested 2's at the rim. Him taking those shots doesn't happen organically. Those are shots the defense is trying to force him into by their coverage. He doesn't need to figure out how to finish those shots better today. He has to figure out how to not get into those situations, or use other options once he gets there. The scout against him says he’s either going to shoot a 3 or try and get to the rim and dump it off to a big. So the game plan is to put a bigger defender on him, go over the top of screens and funnel him towards a larger defender in the paint. The big shouldn't help off until he commits, make him finish. He's not a high leaper so he’ll struggle to finish over size, and a lot of times he looks to draw a foul more than he is focused on finishing.The slump comment is in reference to his 15 to 18ft jumpshots that are normally automatic but haven’t been falling recently. Having that shot back would help open things up for him a bit even though that's a shot an opposing coach will live with. Not having it contributes to his desire to force the issue and get to the rim. He's played way above average for a rookie, but he's still just a frosh about to play his 7th game in the BE so I think we should relax a bit. I’m not saying he’s going to figure it out by Sunday. Hopefully he spends 4 years here, so give him time to grow and develop. Agreed. So his play is to drop it down to our big that should be uncovered now or kick it out to our wing. I assume he did just that in the past game, that is the reason for his 11 assists. I wasn't at home and didn't record the game |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 11:29:40 GMT -5
This is why the game plan against him matters imo. He's shooting a low percentage because he's taking the shots the defense wants to give him, contested 2's at the rim. Him taking those shots doesn't happen organically. Those are shots the defense is trying to force him into by their coverage. He doesn't need to figure out how to finish those shots better today. He has to figure out how to not get into those situations, or use other options once he gets there. The scout against him says he’s either going to shoot a 3 or try and get to the rim and dump it off to a big. So the game plan is to put a bigger defender on him, go over the top of screens and funnel him towards a larger defender in the paint. The big shouldn't help off until he commits, make him finish. He's not a high leaper so he’ll struggle to finish over size, and a lot of times he looks to draw a foul more than he is focused on finishing.The slump comment is in reference to his 15 to 18ft jumpshots that are normally automatic but haven’t been falling recently. Having that shot back would help open things up for him a bit even though that's a shot an opposing coach will live with. Not having it contributes to his desire to force the issue and get to the rim. He's played way above average for a rookie, but he's still just a frosh about to play his 7th game in the BE so I think we should relax a bit. I’m not saying he’s going to figure it out by Sunday. Hopefully he spends 4 years here, so give him time to grow and develop. Agreed. So his play is to drop it down to our big that should be uncovered now or kick it out to our wing. I assume he did just that in the past game, that is the reason for his 11 assists. I wasn't at home and didn't record the game Big is still attached to his man most of the time because they want him to finish. They usually show, but won't commit. Yes on kick outs, but there's a lot of options before and after he gets there that I'm sure the coaching staff is working with him on. |
|
