rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Mar 2, 2020 12:58:49 GMT -5
Yurt got hurt and Gill can block some shots, but if he can even be remotely considered more impactful it’s because of the team makeup....but even then Gill is not as good or impactful. Not even close. Stop with the self-deprecating doom and gloom. It surely can’t be making you feel any better. Don’t get lost in some post-game coach speak... a I’m literally looking at the KenPom numbers for both players and struggling to see what Yurt does better than Gill. Forget about the defensive side of the ball Gill has a better offensive efficiency rating. I feel like this happens on this board a lot. You simply cannot look at offensive efficiency rating and ignore usage. They go hand in hand and the bar for efficiency on a low usage player should be much higher. Yurt7 has a 109 o-rating on 27.8 usage. Gill's rating of 114 is on 14% usage. It is very easy to have a high efficiency rating just being the roller on dunks and putting in tap ins. There's value to what Gill is doing but it's not the same. It would be much easier to ask Yurt7 to take on Gill's role in the SH offense than vice versa. Bart Torvik created his own stat (PRPG!) to try and contemplate this (I'm sure others have as well). I do not pretend his stat is perfect but it's a move in the right direction: Yurt7:3.9 Gill:2.3
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 2, 2020 13:41:32 GMT -5
The Yurtseven experiment will go down alongside the Josh Smith experiment as an utter failure. We can only hope that Yurtseven might graduate, unlike Smith. This comment is going to go down as one of the dumbest and most butthurt in Hoyatalk history....unfortunately it doesn’t qualify for one of your most clown takes of this month even. The guy was supposed to be an all big east level contributor - for whatever reasons, he hasn’t been. And assuming he leaves after this season, he contributed very little to the program overall. Not sure why that’s confusing or anxiety-producing to you. You should try to work out your anger issues somewhere other than this board - you seem to insult someone in every single one of your posts. But I assume you’re in middle school, so maybe just grow up a bit.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 2, 2020 13:43:43 GMT -5
There’s one simple question that we can ask: would this roster be better off if Yurtseven was not injured? The answer is clearly yes. As I’ve said elsewhere, he’s definitely not played as well as I expected he would, but he’s still a good solid player. Calling his recruitment or time at Georgetown a failure is absolutely ridiculous. Every game we hear announcers say that what better a place for a big man to learn than at Georgetown. Yet, two years in a row our fan base has turned on our bigs (Govan and Yurtseven) and placed a ton of blame on them for softness, poor play, etc. I am not sure why the players keep getting blamed here and not the staff that’s supposed to be so excellent at developing big men. “Big Man U” is simply a crutch for lazy announcers who haven’t done their prep work. It’s not true and hasn’t been in years.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by seaweed on Mar 2, 2020 14:08:28 GMT -5
This comment is going to go down as one of the dumbest and most butthurt in Hoyatalk history....unfortunately it doesn’t qualify for one of your most clown takes of this month even. The guy was supposed to be an all big east level contributor - for whatever reasons, he hasn’t been. And assuming he leaves after this season, he contributed very little to the program overall. Not sure why that’s confusing or anxiety-producing to you. You should try to work out your anger issues somewhere other than this board - you seem to insult someone in every single one of your posts. But I assume you’re in middle school, so maybe just grow up a bit. You should let the Big East know that, cause when he was healthy they kept putting him on the Honor Roll. Must have been something about all those double doubles. Weird.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 2, 2020 14:27:31 GMT -5
The guy was supposed to be an all big east level contributor - for whatever reasons, he hasn’t been. And assuming he leaves after this season, he contributed very little to the program overall. Not sure why that’s confusing or anxiety-producing to you. You should try to work out your anger issues somewhere other than this board - you seem to insult someone in every single one of your posts. But I assume you’re in middle school, so maybe just grow up a bit. You should let the Big East know that, cause when he was healthy they kept putting him on the Honor Roll. Must have been something about all those double doubles. Weird. Thank you for keeping rationality in play. For a bunch of “smart” people on this board, how people keep missing the forest right in front of their face is beyond me. I don’t mean to antagonize anyone (I truly don’t), but I’m kinda in “see something, say something” mode right now. People keep making stuff up and sati they’re “facts”. That’s not productive or beneficial in any way whatsoever. In fact, it keeps lowering the bar for public discourse so yeah I am frustrated that our society is losing the ability to be accurate and analytical. Sue me. And it’s crazy seeing so many “adults” project their own feelings of anger onto other posters’ reasonable comment in the same breath that they take unnecessary shots at kids who have sacrificed more for this program than some ever have in their whole life for anything. It’s honestly very very sad and makes me embarrassed to be a Georgetown fan sometimes. But, there will always be bad apples and people who only offer problems and no solutions so obviously I will keep supporting and doing my part to help enhance the quality of program support as much as I can. I have faith that we will come out of this dark period stronger than ever. Hoya Saxa baby.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 2, 2020 14:32:39 GMT -5
Yurt got hurt and Gill can block some shots, but if he can even be remotely considered more impactful it’s because of the team makeup....but even then Gill is not as good or impactful. Not even close. Stop with the self-deprecating doom and gloom. It surely can’t be making you feel any better. Don’t get lost in some post-game coach speak... a I’m literally looking at the KenPom numbers for both players and struggling to see what Yurt does better than Gill. Forget about the defensive side of the ball Gill has a better offensive efficiency rating. Real advice, not meant as a shot: numbers generally don’t even tell half of the story in sports, particularly for the analysis you’re trying to capture.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 2, 2020 14:34:06 GMT -5
[“Big Man U” is simply a crutch for lazy announcers who haven’t done their prep work. It’s not true and hasn’t been in years. Here's the run of centers with at least some starts since 1980. Some greats, others less so. (NBA players in bold.) 1980-81: Mike Frazier 1981-85: Patrick Ewing1985-86: Ralph Dalton 1985-86: Grady Mateen 1986-88: Ben Gillery1986-90: Sam Jefferson 1988-91: Dikembe Mutombo 1988-92: Alonzo Mourning1992-94: Duane Spencer 1992-96: Othella Harrington 1994-98: Jahidi White1996-99: Jameel Watkins 1998-01: Ruben Bountje-Bountje2000-03: Wesley Wilson 2000-04: Courtland Freeman 2004-08: Roy Hibbert 2008-10: Greg Monroe2010-11: Julian Vaughn 2011-12: Henry Sims2013-15: Mikael Hopkins 2013-15: Josh Smith 2014-16: Bradley Hayes 2015-19: Jessie Govan 2019-20: Omer Yurtseven
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 2, 2020 14:35:25 GMT -5
Part of the problem with Yurtseven is that his expectations were sky high because he was very efficient in ACC play two seasons ago, he had time to develop, and we figured he'd step into the program and be a dominant player. Before injury, he definitely struggled in Big East play, but he was still a pretty efficient player, did not turnover it over much, and rebounded extremely well.
More simply, everybody expected an NBA draft pick, and that's not what we got. But, he has still helped the team, and we are worse off because of his injury.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Mar 2, 2020 14:40:14 GMT -5
Part of the problem with Yurtseven is that his expectations were sky high because he was very efficient in ACC play two seasons ago, he had time to develop, and we figured he'd step into the program and be a dominant player. Before injury, he definitely struggled in Big East play, but he was still a pretty efficient player, did not turnover it over much, and rebounded extremely well. More simply, everybody expected an NBA draft pick, and that's not what we got. But, he has still helped the team, and we are worse off because of his injury. That’s definitely true. we are worse without him this season. Main point is we’ve barely had him, and never when it has mattered most. I’m not calling the kid a personal failure. I hope he kills it in Europe. But it’s hard to term his time at Georgetown as a basketball success by any measure.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Mar 2, 2020 15:33:24 GMT -5
If the team wants to win one of the next two, we need Omer. If you want to win both, you absolutely need Omer. Qudus hasn't been great in games where he plays 25 minutes. He's just not ready for that yet. Omer has shown he can play. We need him very badly.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Mar 2, 2020 15:42:30 GMT -5
I want him back or another alternative. Anyone who saw the game yesterday saw that our frosh centers are not ready to start and we cannot count on a frosh-to-soph jump. It’s a huge risk for Pat’s career. Of this year’s roster, Blair and Pickett didn’t have that jump. Soph Mosely improved slightly in FG%, but had more TOs and lower FT%. Mac had potential to do it, but it’s inconclusive. No one else can be measured. Who was the last player to make that mythical jump at GU? I think that speaks more broadly to a player development question, and one this program has hopefully addressed w Crouch. I guess the answer is Otto Porter but it happens everywhere else across our league so we need to look in the mirror on that front. I would hope for bigs the player development falls on Ewing. I'm personally of the view that Yurt7 contribution was underappreciated, and calling this is a failure is very harsh. He was all set to be 1st team All-BE center before the injury and averaged a double double. Finalist for the National Center of Year Award. I think we expect too much out of the centers because of our history. I blame the defensive issues on broader systemic issues than anything he did. I am disappointed he did not spend the year off being a viable 3 point shooter, as it would've helped us and made him more viable professionally (although that's another player development question imo). I can't speak to the comments suggesting he doesn't want to play. He tried to play at less than 100%, re-injured himself and was ineffective when he tried to gut it out. None of us know his current medical status.
Agree those expecting Wahab and Tim I. to simply replace the production we got from Yurt7 will be disappointed, one of the main reasons I think we're due to take a step back next year.This says everything I would want to say and then some. This team hasn't had that inside presence recently that they have with Omer. It's much harder to guard this team with a center who can get buckets almost at will than it is without that. That's why I really believe this team needs a scoring four, assuming Omer doesn't come back. This team will need a scorer that can really change how this team is defended and limit the downward effects. But after how he looked against DePaul, and him potentially reaggravating his injury (which CAN hurt more when adrenaline isn't flowing through you) there is no reason to question his injury. Now, if the staff or anyone wants to avoid this speculation, they could do what most quality programs do and you know actually tell their fans what the injury was, but that's beside the point. Instead it creates many different interpretations of an injury and creates additional problems for the players, fans and maybe even the team. Either way, what you said in the bolded part is 100% true.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 2, 2020 17:18:36 GMT -5
Again, let's remember that legally the University is not allowed to provide medical details without the permission of the student. And it may simply be a case that the doctors have said that Yurt - and maybe even Mac, although the boot would argue against it - are medically cleared to play as soon as they feel comfortable playing, but the player(s) has not gotten to that comfort point yet.
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kettlehill
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by kettlehill on Mar 2, 2020 17:23:57 GMT -5
I fully expect the Q/ Timmy combo to be a very productive one next year. Raw, for sure- the play where Tim stole the ball and took off, forgetting to dribble. The kid is in high school developmentally, but he is also a terrific athlete., perhaps the best on the team. Those two certainly do not have Yurts jump shooting touch, but who cares as long as they rebound and Dunk with authority. What I have wanted for several years is a Tyrique Jones type. He won that game yesterday for X and I don’t remember him shooting one damn fade away or 3 pointer. I do not mean to dis Yurt, and I am sure he will make a ton of money as a pro, but he simply isn’t a prototypical Big East center.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 2, 2020 18:32:17 GMT -5
a I’m literally looking at the KenPom numbers for both players and struggling to see what Yurt does better than Gill. Forget about the defensive side of the ball Gill has a better offensive efficiency rating. I feel like this happens on this board a lot. You simply cannot look at offensive efficiency rating and ignore usage. They go hand in hand and the bar for efficiency on a low usage player should be much higher. Yurt7 has a 109 o-rating on 27.8 usage. Gill's rating of 114 is on 14% usage. It is very easy to have a high efficiency rating just being the roller on dunks and putting in tap ins. There's value to what Gill is doing but it's not the same. It would be much easier to ask Yurt7 to take on Gill's role in the SH offense than vice versa. Bart Torvik created his own stat (PRPG!) to try and contemplate this (I'm sure others have as well). I do not pretend his stat is perfect but it's a move in the right direction: Yurt7:3.9 Gill:2.3 You can talk about usage all you want but rewatch the head to head matchup on January 3rd when Gill dominated Yurt. www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401168394
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Mar 2, 2020 18:37:07 GMT -5
Everyone here is missing the mark. This discussion has nothing to with what the guy has done on the court, nothing to do with player development, and nothing to do with the viability of our back up centers. This has everything to do with one player putting his own interests in front of everything else. This is not a guy I would want in the trenches with me. Mosely, Allen, Blair, Pickett, Mac, George, Qudus, Timothy, Robinson....we so appreciate the effort and fight you guys put forth day. I also feel badly for the coaches and staff....everyone is scratching their heads on this one.
I am sure I will be bashed for this post....but someone had to say it, might as well be me.
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 2, 2020 18:43:14 GMT -5
Everyone here is missing the mark. This discussion has nothing to with what the guy has done on the court, nothing to do with player development, and nothing to do with the viability of our back up centers. This has everything to do with one player putting his own interests in front of everything else. This is not a guy I would want in the trenches with me. Mosely, Allen, Blair, Pickett, Mac, George, Qudus, Timothy, Robinson....we so appreciate the effort and fight you guys put forth day. I also feel badly for the coaches and staff....everyone is scratching their heads on this one. I am sure I will be bashed for this post....but someone had to say it, might as well be me. He is making a business decision. If what you are saying is true. it says a lot about his character. This was the reputation/baggage he came with. That’s one of the reasons that I think character is worth a plus/minus star when recruiting. A team with character can overachieve (as we have seen this year) — a team without it tends to underachieve. Amakers Seton Hall team with Eddie Griffin and company comes to mind.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 2, 2020 18:48:49 GMT -5
Everyone here is missing the mark. This discussion has nothing to with what the guy has done on the court, nothing to do with player development, and nothing to do with the viability of our back up centers. This has everything to do with one player putting his own interests in front of everything else. This is not a guy I would want in the trenches with me. Mosely, Allen, Blair, Pickett, Mac, George, Qudus, Timothy, Robinson....we so appreciate the effort and fight you guys put forth day. I also feel badly for the coaches and staff....everyone is scratching their heads on this one. I am sure I will be bashed for this post....but someone had to say it, might as well be me. The last time he played, though, he still looked injured to me and wasn't particularly effective. Maybe that's not the case anymore, I don't know.
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Post by trillesthoya on Mar 2, 2020 19:40:11 GMT -5
This might not be a popular opinion, but I don’t particularly care if Yurt is sitting it out the rest of the season to focus on getting healthy for the draft. Not all guys are team first, but simultaneously none of the guys on this team have anywhere near the pro prospects he has at this point. It’s easy to talk about being a junkyard dog in the trenches when you pretty much have nothing to lose by playing your heart out. If we were really close to the tourney that’s one thing, but Yurt being back doesn’t all of a sudden make us a favorite to win the BET, let alone make it out alive Wednesday night.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Mar 2, 2020 19:53:28 GMT -5
He doesn't want to hurt his pro prospects by risking his scoring and rebounding averages going down if he only goes for 10 and 5 a few games.
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Post by trillesthoya on Mar 2, 2020 19:59:02 GMT -5
He doesn't want to hurt his pro prospects by risking his scoring and rebounding averages going down if he only goes for 10 and 5 a few games. Respect your opinion a lot Blueandgray. I find it hard to judge a kid for wanting to avoid aggravating an injury when money is on the line. I don’t blame anyone on the team for feeling some type of way about it though.
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