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Post by cindad on Mar 9, 2020 13:10:29 GMT -5
Agree with pretty much all Cindad posted other than questioning the BE. I'll agree Big 10 is a stronger league this season, but ACC isn't close top to bottom - weakest that league has ever been. Don't forget - GU rolled Cuse...and that was after the defections and pushed Duke - No. 8 BE pushing No. 1 ACC. Just think ACC is very, very average this year. No question that Duke, FSU, UVA and UL are all very good, but bottom half of that conference is REALLY weak. Ga Tech at 5 is wretched, and it gets much worse before you get to Wake, BC and Pitt. Literally every season, BE gets stronger relative to other conferences top to bottom IMO. As for Mac, I like certain aspects of his game, but he's nowhere close to an NBA player at this point - not remotely close. And given his style of play, getting injured is a HUGE red flag for NBA GMs, because his current effectiveness requires him to hurl himself all over the floor AI-style. B-chuck did that for more than a decade before an injury caused him to miss games. They also aren't better ball handlers. They are better PGs and make better decisions but Mac's handles are not a problem....also that wasn't the#8 BE team when GTown played Duke. It was probably the #4/#5BE team. That was pre-defections... Ball handling is not dribbling skill per say. It's the ability to get the ball into optimized spots based on what is needed and with personal on the floor. Kyrie Irving is a great dribbler and he gets to places to score or get teammates open effectively. Andre Miller is about as basic a dribbler you could find, but he was a great ball handler. Same with JKidd. Making good decisions with the ball is a big component. Radford Alston was a magician with the ball but he was a bad ballhandler because he gets himself in trouble too often. The knock on Marcus Howard is his ball handling. He moves the ball into spots on the court that gets him and his teammates in trouble, then he will pickup his dribble compounding the problem. Not only is Howard shot happy,NBA scouts question if he can do anything on the floor if he isn't shooting.Watch a Marquette game, and Howard makes some really basic errors with the ball especially when dribbling out top. Like allowing himself to get trapped or pushed away from the basket.
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rlo24
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by rlo24 on Mar 9, 2020 21:46:37 GMT -5
Mac would have been in the NCAA if he would have stayed 20 min from home at East Tennessee State or with his original commitment to Rutgers. Hopefully he gets there next year with us!
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 9, 2020 21:48:54 GMT -5
Not next year, perhaps the year after.
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Post by cgallstar02 on Mar 9, 2020 23:38:09 GMT -5
He is very far from being a NBA prospect. The NBA GM spelled it out very clearly in the article with the issue. To make the NBA you have to do 2 things at the NBA-level. I'll buy the reports he has NBA athleticism based on testing. But in game thats not the case. Mosely is a more explosive athlete in games. But everyone in the NBA is a NBA athlete, and the fact he can't just blow by players at will at the college level, what happens when you go up another level? If he was playing in the B10 or ACC how would he perform against high-caliber athletes nightly. The BE is a major conference but physical ability of the players is just a notch below the larger conferences? Outside of Nova, what teams have made an Elite 8 appearance since the 2014? The guy can score IF his shot is falling, there is no indicator he can do that on the nightly basis as a focal point of a team's offense. Also at his height he is just a poor ball handler. Here are some late first/second round graded guards, is he a better ballhandler than: Until the stat geeks say its okay, Basketball people will refuse to put a player on the floor who can't handle the ball under 6'5", because it limits the team offensive, esp in the NBA. Kick it super old school Trajon Langdon was an excellent shooter in college but a terrible ballhandler, horrific this is probably the most extreme example of shooting to ball-handling for a fairly capable college guard. Once his shot wasn't falling in the NBA he buried on the bench for a terrible team, and didn't even play in 25% of the games over 3 years. Typically to be successful at that height you need to be a good consistent scorer, an excellent shooter, or be a lockdown defender. Being a capable distributor of the basketball is a given. Esp when there is skill is highly available otherwise. Michigan fan as a primary team but GU is the BE team I watch regularly. I'll take a guy like Duncan Robinson. Midway through his last year we saw a guy who was an obvious late 2nd or UFA. But would stick on a NBA team. He shot the ball well, a good ballhandler, plus he is 6'7", long, and can move his feet enough to stay with guards. Basically Malinowski on steroids. Plus he moves off the ball well so he comes open, a lot. McClung doesn't move off the ball at all except for that play GU runs with a downscreen and he comes off to the FT extended/Elbow and its a catch and shoot which he hits at a good clip honestly. This could be due to scheme or personal style of play. But 2 years into a college career unless there is drastic changes the book is written on your capabilities. Understand prior to his extended absence he had played some serious minutes in his career. All those guards in his HS class that are on much better teams ranked 50-150 that were buried behind upperclassman are starting to emerge now, and it will only accelerate next year. Lots players in outside the top 50 in major conferences don't get a situation like his of essentially unlimited playing time from day 1 on campus. Ranking means little 2 years in and the amount of time played though honestly, there are sophmores on my Michigan team who are night and day from the beginning of the season to now because they are actually playing. Be objective, McClung better right now than say a Tremont Waters/Carsen Edwards? Because thats the closes thing I can think of right now. Tremont Waters or Edwards is shorter, but I'm thinking in terms of recent college guys. If these guys were late 2nd round picks and prob wont be in the NBA in 2-3 years. It shows you have stiff the competition is. Remember Europe is producing 4-5 NBA guards a year now. I'll buy the reports he has NBA athleticism based on testing. But in game thats not the case. Mosely is a more explosive athlete in games.How is that not the case? Because he doesn't throw down poster dunks on guys? Clearly that is the only reason you could be calling Mosely a more explosive athlete. If you equate in game athleticism solely on your ability to throw down a poster every 15-20 games, I don't know what to tell you. I guess we should just ignore his speed, quickness, first step, hang time for acrobatic layups, elevation on his jump shot, etc. Question, do you think Mosely is a better shooter too? Based on your assessment of Mac, I'm going to assume yes. So if in fact he's both a better shooter and better in game athlete, how in the world does Jagan average 5.5 ppg for his career and Mac average 14.2? Guys Mac's size are not getting to the hole and then finishing without elite athleticism. If Jagan's a better shooter and athlete, he would've been the go to guy both this year and last. If he was playing in the B10 or ACC how would he perform against high-caliber athletes nightly. The BE is a major conference but physical ability of the players is just a notch below the larger conferences?Your comment about the Big East compared to the Big Ten and ACC might've been the dumbest thing you said in your entire post. The Big East is easily on par this season with both those conferences... even if it wasn't you are acting like the Big East is a DII conference or something. How about the Big 12, can they compete with the Big 10 and ACC? Mac certainly didn't struggle against Texas or Ok State, or Syracuse for that matter who is of course in the ACC. The guy can score IF his shot is falling, there is no indicator he can do that on the nightly basis as a focal point of a team's offense. I mean couldn't you say the same thing about Cole Anthony and Anthony Edwards, two future top 10, likely top 5 picks? Edwards last game he was 6-22 and 1-12 from three. His team lost by 30 to an unranked LSU team. Cole Anthony was 4-14 with 9 points in his last game. These guys are not out there dropping 30 on 50% shooting night in and night out. Their box scores look eerily similar to Mac's actually. Tre Jones D Dotson Javonte Smart Ayo Donsumo
Ty Alexander (D-Wade light)
So thats 5 guys of equal scoring capability similar heights, and already better ballhandlers/distributors of the basketball. Remember guys like JJ Reddick and Steph Curry. Their NBA careers were questionable late in their college careers because of their inability to handle the ball. Things they did almost exclusively their last year of college because their teams needed it, and also their resume needed.
What is your proof that these guys are better ball handlers than Mac? There's not many stats related to ball handling that I'm aware of to prove your opinion here. The most relative one I can think of is turnover %... looking at those numbers, the only guard with a lower turnover % than Mac is Ty Alexander... and his was horrible the previous two seasons. The funny thing is, if you listen to Mac's haters on the board, he is basically terrible at defense, terrible at passing, terrible at rebounding, average at ball handling, below average at shooting, and I guess a semi-decent athlete. I'm sure it would pain them to call him a good athlete, so we'll go with that. I just wanna know how someone who is pretty much terrible at everything, and kind of average at a few things, was able to start from day 1 as a freshman, be third on his team in scoring last year, and lead his team in scoring this year up until his injury. I get that Georgetown isn't Kansas or Duke, but they were a decent team last year, and were on the bubble most of his year... and likely would've made the tourney if Mac and Yurt didn't get injured. The fact is, the worse you wanna say is he is at something, the better he must be at something else. Cus you can't be terrible to average at everything and do what he's been able to do. You wouldn't even get in the games, let alone be productive in them. If you wanna say he's a bad shooter and average ball handler, then you need to at least be willing to admit he's a great athlete. And if he's not a great athlete, then he must better a better shooter and ball handler than you're willing to admit. He's getting in games and scoring points somehow.
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Mar 10, 2020 0:15:55 GMT -5
Mac needs time to develop. He doesn't have a great fit in the NBA, position-wise. He can make it there, I just don't see it now. He's got the game, he just needs some time to improve defensively and improve on his passing. He's more likely a lead ball-handler at the pro level, he needs to improve and show he can do that. I want to see him play that role more next year, especially if the team doesn't get a grad transfer PG, and even as a secondary ball-handler more. Having multiple ball handlers in college is huge, and it's something I want to see used more.
That being said, if your argument for why he isn't an NBA player is that he's not in the Big 10 or the ACC, you need to wake up. The Big Ten hasn't won a title since Michigan State. The Big Ten is still playing with a traditional five-man and four-man on most teams. The Big Ten is not this special basketball conference. Not putting the Big 12 and Big East on the same level is ridiculous. The ACC is weak this year. The Big Ten is solid this season, but does it really have an athlete advantage over the Big East?
Not calling Villanva's teams with Bridges, Brunson, Paschall, Hart, DiVincenzo, and Spellman "high caliber athletes is insane. Not calling Myles Powell and Markus Howard high caliber athletes is beyond insane. Not calling Saddiq Bey, Paul Reed, Tyshon Alexander, Marcus Zegarowski, LJ Figueroa, Kamar Baldwin, Tyriwue Jones, Paul Scruggs, Naji Marshall, Nate Watson, Alpha Diallo, Mamu, Quincy McKnight, David Duke, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, or Justin Moore high-level athletes is ridiculous.
Comparing Creighton to a team like Iowa in terms of "high caliber athletes" is not even close. Garza is an excellent player, but he's a below-average defender and is more of an old school big man, just with a good jumper. He's not handling the ball, running down the floor, beating everyone, dunking over someone. He doesn't need to because he's skilled. But is he a "high caliber athlete?" Because if so, there are even more in the Big East I didn't name. It's ridiculous.
That fallacy needs to be ended. Mac could make it in those leagues. He's an excellent athlete. We've got athletes. It's ridiculous. It's just uninformed and ignorant.
Rant over. Now, let's see if Mac can go on Wednesday and if not, let's see how well he can develop as a Hoya. He's going to be a HUGE piece next year, let's see what he can do.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 10, 2020 5:17:30 GMT -5
They also aren't better ball handlers. They are better PGs and make better decisions but Mac's handles are not a problem....also that wasn't the#8 BE team when GTown played Duke. It was probably the #4/#5BE team. That was pre-defections... Ball handling is not dribbling skill per say. It's the ability to get the ball into optimized spots based on what is needed and with personal on the floor. Kyrie Irving is a great dribbler and he gets to places to score or get teammates open effectively. Andre Miller is about as basic a dribbler you could find, but he was a great ball handler. Same with JKidd. Making good decisions with the ball is a big component. Radford Alston was a magician with the ball but he was a bad ballhandler because he gets himself in trouble too often. The knock on Marcus Howard is his ball handling. He moves the ball into spots on the court that gets him and his teammates in trouble, then he will pickup his dribble compounding the problem. Not only is Howard shot happy,NBA scouts question if he can do anything on the floor if he isn't shooting.Watch a Marquette game, and Howard makes some really basic errors with the ball especially when dribbling out top. Like allowing himself to get trapped or pushed away from the basket. I see that as BBall IQ. Ball handling issues are Morko and Juggy where you know if they take too many dribbles something bad will happen but not knowing how to properly run a team is IQ. I never worry about Mac dribbling off his foot or someone taking the ball from him.....imo
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 10, 2020 6:51:11 GMT -5
The ball handling issues with Blair and Pickett May limit our upside next year. Ball movement may be an issue without Allen and Moseley in the mix. Frosh will be frosh.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 10, 2020 7:49:00 GMT -5
The ball handling issues with Blair and Pickett May limit our upside next year. Ball movement may be an issue without Allen and Moseley in the mix. Frosh will be frosh. Really need one of the frosh to give us Joey Brown type play.....8-10pts and 3-5ast We don't need dominance from the position. Just solid play and the ability to have most of Mac's minutes at the 2....
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Mar 10, 2020 9:06:02 GMT -5
I expect a haiku ode to Joey Brown from MCI by noon today...
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,509
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Post by bostonfan on Mar 10, 2020 9:38:14 GMT -5
Has anyone heard how Mac is doing physically these days? Is he improving? Has he been able to practice at all yet? Any chance he could play in the Big East Tournament? Could he possibly play if they ended up in the NIT? Has he been shut down for the year?
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Mar 10, 2020 14:54:35 GMT -5
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 10, 2020 15:20:50 GMT -5
If you want to be a pro and you have the financial resources, then yes definitely get specialized training. High school and Middle School kids are getting it.
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joey0403p
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,586
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Post by joey0403p on Mar 10, 2020 16:50:27 GMT -5
Has anyone heard how Mac is doing physically these days? Is he improving? Has he been able to practice at all yet? Any chance he could play in the Big East Tournament? Could he possibly play if they ended up in the NIT? Has he been shut down for the year? This was my question as well?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 10, 2020 18:04:31 GMT -5
I had to kind of zip through the game Saturday so I did not see if he was still in the boot. If he was I can't imagine him playing this week.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Mar 10, 2020 18:08:38 GMT -5
I had to kind of zip through the game Saturday so I did not see if he was still in the boot. If he was I can't imagine him playing this week. Mac and Malcolm had boots.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,509
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Post by bostonfan on Mar 11, 2020 7:30:28 GMT -5
I had to kind of zip through the game Saturday so I did not see if he was still in the boot. If he was I can't imagine him playing this week. Mac and Malcolm had boots. Mac has been in a boot for a few weeks now it seems. I would think that probably means he has some type off a break in his foot. You see a lot of guys in a boot for a short period of time just to stabilize the foot/ankle for a bad sprain, but at this point I would think it is something more than a sprain or he would be out of the boot and back to practice. If it is a break, then there is not much anyone can do and you just need to wait till it heals. I am not a doctor and I am not trying to rush him back before he is ready, but with all of the privacy rules involving the players health it is hard to know what is going on with some the injuries.
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Post by bigelephant on Mar 11, 2020 8:00:01 GMT -5
I don't think he is going to play and Yurt also.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by drquigley on Mar 11, 2020 10:32:06 GMT -5
I don't think he is going to play and Yurt also. Forget Yurt and Mac tonight. I would worry about Mac's future. This injury must be much more serious than we have been lead to believe. Sure he will heal well enough to function normally as an adult. But will he ever be able to play bball at a D1 level? Requires a lot more strength and agility than taking the commuter train to work.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 11, 2020 12:36:58 GMT -5
Could just be a severe sprain or a minor fracture, which can take 4-6 weeks to heal. Of course we don't know, and may not for weeks or months. If we don't see social media of Mac working out or see him at Kenner in a few months then we will know it was more serious.
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joey0403p
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by joey0403p on Mar 12, 2020 9:11:41 GMT -5
What could the procedure have been? Hoya drs??
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