rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 31, 2020 18:59:42 GMT -5
As much as Georgetown fans hate to see it because next year's team would take a huge hit from a roster standpoint, this is the attitude we need to take. Sending a recruit that was underappreciated coming out of HS (except for his dunking skills) after 2 years in college to the NBA would be huge and a positive reflection of the program and our coach. It's not like he is leaving because he can't stand it at Georgetown, we haven't heard anything like that. Let's be supportive of the young man and his decision. There's way too many of us saying it is ridiculous that he is testing the waters and that he would never make it to the NBA, etc. That would tick me off if I were him. Sorry but no way his leaving would be a "huge and positive reflection of the program and our coach". So if he had gone to Rutgers and left after two years would we be saying what a great reflection on the Rutgers program? C'mon, if he leaves after two years the college basketball world will be saying GU really has a fu*#ed up program. Guys can't wait to get out. If I were a recruit I would seriously reconsider joining a program where almost as many guys left in the last 3 years as graduated. And if I were a parent and had to choose between us and Nova or Butler or Providence or Creighton where would I want my kid to go. Be honest. Whenever you check this Board do you hold your breath? What's the next shoe to drop? Your reading comprehension needs work. Could’ve saved you all that salt.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,245
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 31, 2020 19:30:07 GMT -5
Not going anywhere. I have no problem with Mac doing what he's doing, but let's face it, if he leaves after two years and isn't drafted (and he wouldn't be), that would be a very bad look for the program on top of all of last year's departures.
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HoyaDr
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 616
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Post by HoyaDr on Mar 31, 2020 20:05:13 GMT -5
As much as Georgetown fans hate to see it because next year's team would take a huge hit from a roster standpoint, this is the attitude we need to take. Sending a recruit that was underappreciated coming out of HS (except for his dunking skills) after 2 years in college to the NBA would be huge and a positive reflection of the program and our coach. It's not like he is leaving because he can't stand it at Georgetown, we haven't heard anything like that. Let's be supportive of the young man and his decision. There's way too many of us saying it is ridiculous that he is testing the waters and that he would never make it to the NBA, etc. That would tick me off if I were him. Sorry but no way his leaving would be a "huge and positive reflection of the program and our coach". So if he had gone to Rutgers and left after two years would we be saying what a great reflection on the Rutgers program? C'mon, if he leaves after two years the college basketball world will be saying GU really has a fu*#ed up program. Guys can't wait to get out. If I were a recruit I would seriously reconsider joining a program where almost as many guys left in the last 3 years as graduated. And if I were a parent and had to choose between us and Nova or Butler or Providence or Creighton where would I want my kid to go. Be honest. Whenever you check this Board do you hold your breath? What's the next shoe to drop? So then should we tell future recruits that we have a program and fanbase that will tear you apart if you improve over 1 or 2 years and decide to test the waters and enter the NBA draft process while maintaining eligibility? Then we would get 0 talent. Get with the times brother. Is it only a positive reflection if the player improves AND leads us to the NCAAs and then decides get advice from the NBA? That is not how college basketball works these days. If he went to Rutgers or any other program and played well, I would expect him to at least get advice from the NBA world, that's how the system works now. I would expect that program's coaching staff to support him as best they can. If he gets to the NBA then great I'll say that he went to the right program to get him there and reach his goal and use him as an example to other recruits. If he doesn't test well and is advised to come back to school, he will come back and we can watch him next year. If our program was so toxic, then our remaining starters would be transferring this year along with the 500+ players already in the transfer portal. Wahab, Pickett and Blair would be gone by now, even if they have to sit out a year. I don't hold my breath at all, I take things one day at a time and try to be positive. If the university eventually decides enough is enough and moves on to a new coaching staff, I will still follow and cheer for Hoya basketball. If they decide to stick our current staff, I may not have to like it if we don't improve over the next couple years, but I will still give my support. What else can we do? Storm Ewings or the ADs office with torches and pitch and fork? Our program currently isn't in the position to demand recruits that only stay 4 years or even one and dones. Even if a recruit tells us he will stay 4 years, if he thinks he is close to the NBA before he becomes a senior, we can't force him to stay. No program can do that. We take the talent that we can get and support and coach them in a family type atmosphere, or at least I hope so. If you don't like it then you don't have to be involved as a fan or whatever you consider yourself.
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HoyaDr
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 616
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Post by HoyaDr on Mar 31, 2020 20:07:18 GMT -5
Not going anywhere. I have no problem with Mac doing what he's doing, but let's face it, if he leaves after two years and isn't drafted (and he wouldn't be), that would be a very bad look for the program on top of all of last year's departures. This is what I agree with, if he decides to go to Europe or China or the G league after being told there is no way he can make it to the NBA this year, then that would be a bad look. But let him get advice, let him workout for teams while maintaining his eligibility. That is how college basketball is now, otherwise there wouldn't be a rule that allows him to return.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 31, 2020 20:07:34 GMT -5
As much as Georgetown fans hate to see it because next year's team would take a huge hit from a roster standpoint, this is the attitude we need to take. Sending a recruit that was underappreciated coming out of HS (except for his dunking skills) after 2 years in college to the NBA would be huge and a positive reflection of the program and our coach. It's not like he is leaving because he can't stand it at Georgetown, we haven't heard anything like that. Let's be supportive of the young man and his decision. There's way too many of us saying it is ridiculous that he is testing the waters and that he would never make it to the NBA, etc. That would tick me off if I were him. Sorry but no way his leaving would be a "huge and positive reflection of the program and our coach". So if he had gone to Rutgers and left after two years would we be saying what a great reflection on the Rutgers program? C'mon, if he leaves after two years the college basketball world will be saying GU really has a fu*#ed up program. Guys can't wait to get out. If I were a recruit I would seriously reconsider joining a program where almost as many guys left in the last 3 years as graduated. And if I were a parent and had to choose between us and Nova or Butler or Providence or Creighton where would I want my kid to go. Be honest. Whenever you check this Board do you hold your breath? What's the next shoe to drop? DrQ you have to focus on the 2nd sentence. If Geo Baker or Caleb McConnell left Rutgers and were drafted then it is a good look. Rutgers coach can then tell recruits that he put a 3* guard in the L. You are so certain that Mac isn't gonna get drafted that you refuse to even address the possibility. Now if Mac doesn't come back and is playing in Europe in 2yrs then it's a bad look. But that's not the scenario presented in the post....
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rlo24
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 337
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Post by rlo24 on Mar 31, 2020 20:08:54 GMT -5
I'm going to keep a running list of POSITIVE Mac info. There is plenty of "and he's not going to make this year anyway" posts so a few positive links can't hurt.. Mac McClung NBA Draft Scouting Report"Projection: late first to second round pick in the 2020 or 2021 NBA Draft"
www.hoopsrumors.com/2020-nba-draft "McClung, a 6’2″ guard, averaged 15.7 points in 21 games this season. His unique leaping ability, flashy dunks and impressive range has helped him amass more than 700k followers on social media, making him one of the most popular athletes in the NCAA. A legitimate NBA pre-draft process is currently in doubt for McClung, according to Givony, but the potential still exists for him to attract enough interest for private workouts or meetings with NBA teams." NBA Prospects - 2nd Round - 55th Pick Mac McClung"Georgetown’s leading Scorer. Super explosive guard that gets to the rim. Not highly recruited out of HS (More known for his Team Loaded Highlight dunks).Tough. Plays with lots of confidence. Needs to improve his outside shooting. Has a tendency to drive too far at times. Shows potential as a Shooter with very respectable 80% from the free throw line. Doesn’t play like a classic point guard despite his height. Per game average increases to 21 point per game over 36 minutes. Has the athletic ability and toughness to project as scorer off the bench at NBA level." Mac McClung NBA Draft Predictions By Liam McKeone | Mar 30 2020"As previously mentioned, this draft is wide-open. More teams are going to take chances on high-upside prospects than usual, especially considering the coronavirus pandemic will be a significant hindrance to the draft process. McClung showed a good amount of potential in his second college season, but he isn't going to leap into the lottery due to his lack of size. Once we get past there, it's basically a toss-up. But for my money, McClung will go early in the second or perhaps late in the first depending on who ends up drafting at the bottom of the order. Teams will take chances on bigger wings first and foremost, but McClung will be at the top of draft boards once those are all gone."
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HoyaDr
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 616
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Post by HoyaDr on Mar 31, 2020 20:21:52 GMT -5
Sorry but no way his leaving would be a "huge and positive reflection of the program and our coach". So if he had gone to Rutgers and left after two years would we be saying what a great reflection on the Rutgers program? C'mon, if he leaves after two years the college basketball world will be saying GU really has a fu*#ed up program. Guys can't wait to get out. If I were a recruit I would seriously reconsider joining a program where almost as many guys left in the last 3 years as graduated. And if I were a parent and had to choose between us and Nova or Butler or Providence or Creighton where would I want my kid to go. Be honest. Whenever you check this Board do you hold your breath? What's the next shoe to drop? DrQ you have to focus on the 2nd sentence. If Geo Baker or Caleb McConnell left Rutgers and were drafted then it is a good look. Rutgers coach can then tell recruits that he put a 3* guard in the L. You are so certain that Mac isn't gonna get drafted that you refuse to even address the possibility. Now if Mac doesn't come back and is playing in Europe in 2yrs then it's a bad look. But that's not the scenario presented in the post.... Thank you, this is what the board needs to see.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,391
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Post by drquigley on Mar 31, 2020 22:14:51 GMT -5
I hear what everyone is saying but in order for GU to become a funnel for NBA recruits and still aspire to national prominence then it needs to have a recruiting pipeline equivalent to the Dukes,Kentuckys, UNCs of the world. As we are set up today we just can't afford to lose our better players after two years and think that that is a good thing because it shows we can develop NBA talent. Every time we lost a quality player early we went backwards. Green, Otto, Peak, Derrickson. Did we get better after they left? Did recruits start lining up outside our door? Unless and until we are ready to completely sell out our school's integrity and become a Kentucky-like program that makes no pretense of obtaining student athletes we will never have enough talent to turn over our the better part of our lineups every few years.
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Post by cgallstar02 on Mar 31, 2020 23:34:25 GMT -5
My bad I just assumed the AMD number would mirror the spots available in the NBA draft. Seems odd that an average mock draft aggregate number for a player can be far above the actual number of draft slots available but it is what it is... If you look back on my previous responses to you, they all are about your statement that “Every year there's at least a few guys that aren't very high or even on the media/experts draft boards that end up getting selected". This has been the only point I’ve tried to debate with you... I’m not debating about players improving their draft stock after workouts or Mac’s prospects or anything else... The article you posted talks about players who improved their draft status after they were invited to either the G League elite camp or the NBA combine or both. The NBA combine is obviously sanctioned by the NBA and I would assume since the NBA runs the G League that the elite camp was sanctioned by the NBA also... If you agree with me on that point then you’d have to admit that the folks who gave out the finite number of invites to the players would have to be considered experts right? I’d say they’re the ultimate experts on this subject... Where would you say the players earned these invites? I’d think it was during their college careers... This is why I disagree with the examples you’ve provided, I was hoping to read about players like Derrickson who weren’t invited to the combine or elite camp but went from off the board to drafted just thru working out and meeting with individual teams... I think examples like that would better fit your statement... Honestly at this point I'm not sure what were debating. All I will say is that I stand by my statement that you quoted... I think it's a fair statement that was easily proven and happens with an average of probably 4-8 kids a year. Maybe you are misinterpreting me and taking what I said to mean that some guys who's aren't even top 300 prospects (say a Greg Malinowski) are working out and getting drafted. Most draft boards go 75-100 deep, so we are talking about guys in the 75-150 range that work out well, move up and get drafted. As far as the combine and G League elite camp, those are forms of workouts and exactly what I'm talking about (along with individual team workouts) that players are using to increase their draft stock and move up from not being on a team's draft board, to being say 56th or whatever. And yes, these are invite only. If you get a combine invite (there were 66 attendees last year) that means the NBA views you as a legit potential draft pick. I would say Mac is unlikely to get a combine event. The G League elite camp last year included 40 college players and 40 G league players. This is the kind of camp for lower tier players that aren't viewed as being good enough for the combine. This is likely where Mac will play. For perspective sake, Trey Mourning, everyone's favorite whipping boy last year was invited. That said, this camp still churned out a good 10 or so future NBA players last year and is again proof positive that these workouts are where a lot of lower ranked guys are securing NBA futures. As for how they earned their invites... it has a lot less to do with the college careers and lot more to do with their viewed potential. If Khalil Whitney entered the draft he would almost certainly get a combine invite. He did absolutely nothing in college to earn that invite. Meanwhile someone like Ethan Happ who had an excellent career at Wisconsin had to settle for the G League camp invite. Powell and Howard who had amazing careers are both probably borderline combine invites. Would not be shocking to see one or both not get an invite. So no their college careers aren't having a huge impact, at least on getting a combine invite, it is pretty much based solely on perceived NBA potential... doesn't matter if you averaged 3 pts for your career or 30.
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HoyaDr
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 616
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Post by HoyaDr on Mar 31, 2020 23:50:13 GMT -5
I hear what everyone is saying but in order for GU to become a funnel for NBA recruits and still aspire to national prominence then it needs to have a recruiting pipeline equivalent to the Dukes,Kentuckys, UNCs of the world. As we are set up today we just can't afford to lose our better players after two years and think that that is a good thing because it shows we can develop NBA talent. Every time we lost a quality player early we went backwards. Green, Otto, Peak, Derrickson. Did we get better after they left? Did recruits start lining up outside our door? Unless and until we are ready to completely sell out our school's integrity and become a Kentucky-like program that makes no pretense of obtaining student athletes we will never have enough talent to turn over our the better part of our lineups every few years. I understand what you're saying. It's hard for us to reload after losing a key player especially in the last 5 years. But no reason to attack the player that is leaving to achieve their goals. I known Macs family apparently is financially comfortable but that doesn't mean he shouldn't pursue his dreams or delay pursuing them.
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Post by reformation on Apr 1, 2020 8:39:47 GMT -5
Not sure if you are implying the reason that we are not getting top recruits is that we do not "sell out" like Duke/Kentucky. Given all the issues with our personnel there's really not a lot of evidence that our guys are at a different academic or integrity level. I'm sure that there is a mix of great and not so great guys at pretty much any program; no real evidence that we are any better than avg.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,797
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 1, 2020 9:19:40 GMT -5
Not sure if you are implying the reason that we are not getting top recruits is that we do not "sell out" like Duke/Kentucky. Given all the issues with our personnel there's really not a lot of evidence that our guys are at a different academic or integrity level. I'm sure that there is a mix of great and not so great guys at pretty much any program; no real evidence that we are any better than avg. I don't get angry about Kentucky--yes, John Calipari has been able to game the system, but he's working at a school with a 38% four-year graduation rate across all departments. I think we do expect more out of Duke, however, but Krzyzweski is at Paterno-like status in Durham and no one wants to tell him no.
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Post by reformation on Apr 1, 2020 9:25:26 GMT -5
Just a guess, but I suspect we'd be happy to trade our recruits with Duke including the early exits if we could. Think the univ would justify it if the tradeoff was a return to prominence.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,391
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Post by drquigley on Apr 1, 2020 10:11:14 GMT -5
I hear what everyone is saying but in order for GU to become a funnel for NBA recruits and still aspire to national prominence then it needs to have a recruiting pipeline equivalent to the Dukes,Kentuckys, UNCs of the world. As we are set up today we just can't afford to lose our better players after two years and think that that is a good thing because it shows we can develop NBA talent. Every time we lost a quality player early we went backwards. Green, Otto, Peak, Derrickson. Did we get better after they left? Did recruits start lining up outside our door? Unless and until we are ready to completely sell out our school's integrity and become a Kentucky-like program that makes no pretense of obtaining student athletes we will never have enough talent to turn over our the better part of our lineups every few years. I understand what you're saying. It's hard for us to reload after losing a key player especially in the last 5 years. But no reason to attack the player that is leaving to achieve their goals. I known Macs family apparently is financially comfortable but that doesn't mean he shouldn't pursue his dreams or delay pursuing them. You're right, I shouldn't have attacked Mac personally. It's just that I loved the kid and thought he would be the player that would not just put us in a position to compete for an NCAA berth but also to revitalize the program. Reading his statement was like a knife in the back to me.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Apr 1, 2020 11:30:15 GMT -5
I hear what everyone is saying but in order for GU to become a funnel for NBA recruits and still aspire to national prominence then it needs to have a recruiting pipeline equivalent to the Dukes,Kentuckys, UNCs of the world. As we are set up today we just can't afford to lose our better players after two years and think that that is a good thing because it shows we can develop NBA talent. Every time we lost a quality player early we went backwards. Green, Otto, Peak, Derrickson. Did we get better after they left? Did recruits start lining up outside our door? Unless and until we are ready to completely sell out our school's integrity and become a Kentucky-like program that makes no pretense of obtaining student athletes we will never have enough talent to turn over our the better part of our lineups every few years. Actually the recruiting got better with the 1st two (Green, Porter). The success of Jeff's team brought in Maclin, Freeman, Wright and Monroe. The success of Otto's team brought in Copeland, Peak and Derrickson. By definition that is a pipeline. The problem was that JT3 kept losing in the tourney early which led to negative recruiting and the pipeline dried up....I actually think we will be good if Mac is back and healthy. I'm talking battling for BE crown good. But most think we are gonna be bad with or without Mac. If you're in that crowd you should hope that we can get something out of Mac's time on the Hilltop.....
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,462
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Post by TC on Apr 1, 2020 11:35:16 GMT -5
Just a guess, but I suspect we'd be happy to trade our recruits with Duke including the early exits if we could. Think the univ would justify it if the tradeoff was a return to prominence. Can we stop talking about fantasyland scenarios like being Duke? It's not the 80's, we're not Duke, and we're not going to be Duke. It'd be nice if we could put a competent program together and do things like interview head coaches, but we're DePaul at the moment.
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Post by reformation on Apr 1, 2020 14:54:20 GMT -5
Think you missed the point--i think some people were justifying our current position by implying we occupy a higher moral ground in recruiting. I don't think we are really that different from the avg,(based on our recent personnel issues) not the best/worst etc.
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HoyaDr
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 616
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Post by HoyaDr on Apr 1, 2020 16:24:08 GMT -5
I give Ewing until 2021 to get a very good recruiting class before I start voicing any displeasure or start calling for change in regime. I consider the 2020 class so far just good at best right now but that can change. I think getting Ryan Mutombo and Frankie Collins (2020 or 2021) to start can change things quickly.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Apr 1, 2020 17:48:01 GMT -5
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,462
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Post by TC on Apr 1, 2020 18:14:35 GMT -5
Think you missed the point--i think some people were justifying our current position by implying we occupy a higher moral ground in recruiting. I don't think we are really that different from the avg,(based on our recent personnel issues) not the best/worst etc. We took a kid who was kicked out of LSU, so please stop with the higher moral ground nonsense. We treat college basketball like a minor league like everyone else, we're just not a good program.
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