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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 4, 2018 13:57:30 GMT -5
We win the 3 conference OT games we lost, squeeze out another win, and play a stronger OOC schedule and we are right in the conversation. If Doc and Jessie stay, and the new guys can contribute - especially on defense - yeah, Selection Sunday might matter to us. At one level this makes perfect sense,and I try hard convincing myself that we are really not that far away. If we only had a scoring pg or just a bit more depth in the front court this is a 10-8 team today. Then reality hits looking forward to 2018 with a returning back court of Mosely and Blair.Some very unproven front court recruits in Carter and LeBlanc which may help a little and what many here think is the savior at guard in McClung whom every time I've see him play on video against real AAU competition it's like why is anyone getting excited. Then of course it's Johnson will improve I'm still waiting for that to happen this year. Who knows what we have in Mourning if he had a different or was at another big time school he would have been recruited over and the message sent a while ago its time to look at other schools. I hope I'm wrong but at this point just another warm body. The bright light is Jamarko needs to drastically improve his handle, strength, first step,hand overall quickness and please move him from a 2g to a real wing or 3 he can be very special. Going forward as of today 9-9 in BE nrxt year is a real reach and we are much closer to this years 5-13. If they can find another guard or 2 that are significant upgrades on both sides of the ball than Mulmore and Dickerson this spring and McClung can have some immediate impact then who knows I'll reserve judgement until November. With 6 scholarships available over the next 2 years how those are used will determine both short and long term future of the program Patrick has a very small room for error and can afford very few mistakes. You forgot about Malinowski!
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
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Post by OldHoyafan on Mar 4, 2018 14:02:23 GMT -5
The most egregious recruiting error JTIII made during his tenure as Hoyas coach was to allow his program to be cast as “pg unfriendly”. By that I mean he stubbornly bragged that his Princeton styled offense did not need a pure pg, but rather could function with a point-forward running the team. This gave all the other coaches fodder to tell highly recruited pg’s that going to Georgetown would be a death kneel for his NBA ambitions. By the time he realized that this was foolhardy the dye had been cast and his recruitment of other positions had declined also. We are now waiting for Patrick to land that transitional pg to get this program back to where it belongs.
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 4, 2018 15:01:48 GMT -5
We win the 3 conference OT games we lost, squeeze out another win, and play a stronger OOC schedule and we are right in the conversation. If Doc and Jessie stay, and the new guys can contribute - especially on defense - yeah, Selection Sunday might matter to us. At one level this makes perfect sense,and I try hard convincing myself that we are really not that far away. If we only had a scoring pg or just a bit more depth in the front court this is a 10-8 team today. Then reality hits looking forward to 2018 with a returning back court of Mosely and Blair.Some very unproven front court recruits in Carter and LeBlanc which may help a little and what many here think is the savior at guard in McClung whom every time I've see him play on video against real AAU competition it's like why is anyone getting excited. Then of course it's Johnson will improve I'm still waiting for that to happen this year. Who knows what we have in Mourning if he had a different or was at another big time school he would have been recruited over and the message sent a while ago its time to look at other schools. I hope I'm wrong but at this point just another warm body. The bright light is Jamarko needs to drastically improve his handle, strength, first step,hand overall quickness and please move him from a 2g to a real wing or 3 he can be very special. Going forward as of today 9-9 in BE nrxt year is a real reach and we are much closer to this years 5-13. If they can find another guard or 2 that are significant upgrades on both sides of the ball than Mulmore and Dickerson this spring and McClung can have some immediate impact then who knows I'll reserve judgement until November. With 6 scholarships available over the next 2 years how those are used will determine both short and long term future of the program Patrick has a very small room for error and can afford very few mistakes. I think you're underselling how terrible this year's roster is. LeBlanc, Carter, and Mourning in the frontcourt have a wide range of outcomes but no matter, they are literally replacing nobody. A fifth year senior, a 3-star, and a 4-star recruit are purely additive. That's how bad this roster is. The only people who will need to replace anyone are Mac and whomever else we get at point. They replace two low major reserve level talents. Again, wide range of outcomes but really hard to fall lower than the Dickermore well. This year's team isn't close. But next year's might be. It's a completely different situation.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 4, 2018 15:38:56 GMT -5
We win the 3 conference OT games we lost, squeeze out another win, and play a stronger OOC schedule and we are right in the conversation. If Doc and Jessie stay, and the new guys can contribute - especially on defense - yeah, Selection Sunday might matter to us. At one level this makes perfect sense,and I try hard convincing myself that we are really not that far away. If we only had a scoring pg or just a bit more depth in the front court this is a 10-8 team today. Then reality hits looking forward to 2018 with a returning back court of Mosely and Blair.Some very unproven front court recruits in Carter and LeBlanc which may help a little and what many here think is the savior at guard in McClung whom every time I've see him play on video against real AAU competition it's like why is anyone getting excited. Then of course it's Johnson will improve I'm still waiting for that to happen this year. Who knows what we have in Mourning if he had a different or was at another big time school he would have been recruited over and the message sent a while ago its time to look at other schools. I hope I'm wrong but at this point just another warm body. The bright light is Jamarko needs to drastically improve his handle, strength, first step,hand overall quickness and please move him from a 2g to a real wing or 3 he can be very special. Going forward as of today 9-9 in BE nrxt year is a real reach and we are much closer to this years 5-13. If they can find another guard or 2 that are significant upgrades on both sides of the ball than Mulmore and Dickerson this spring and McClung can have some immediate impact then who knows I'll reserve judgement until November. With 6 scholarships available over the next 2 years how those are used will determine both short and long term future of the program Patrick has a very small room for error and can afford very few mistakes. hoyainla has been saying this but until now I have not seen anyone else make the same statement. Appreciate it, I will take a tempered expectation over the next big thing expectation any-day.
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justsaying
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 709
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Post by justsaying on Mar 4, 2018 15:53:50 GMT -5
At one level this makes perfect sense,and I try hard convincing myself that we are really not that far away. If we only had a scoring pg or just a bit more depth in the front court this is a 10-8 team today. Then reality hits looking forward to 2018 with a returning back court of Mosely and Blair.Some very unproven front court recruits in Carter and LeBlanc which may help a little and what many here think is the savior at guard in McClung whom every time I've see him play on video against real AAU competition it's like why is anyone getting excited. Then of course it's Johnson will improve I'm still waiting for that to happen this year. Who knows what we have in Mourning if he had a different or was at another big time school he would have been recruited over and the message sent a while ago its time to look at other schools. I hope I'm wrong but at this point just another warm body. The bright light is Jamarko needs to drastically improve his handle, strength, first step,hand overall quickness and please move him from a 2g to a real wing or 3 he can be very special. Going forward as of today 9-9 in BE nrxt year is a real reach and we are much closer to this years 5-13. If they can find another guard or 2 that are significant upgrades on both sides of the ball than Mulmore and Dickerson this spring and McClung can have some immediate impact then who knows I'll reserve judgement until November. With 6 scholarships available over the next 2 years how those are used will determine both short and long term future of the program Patrick has a very small room for error and can afford very few mistakes. I think you're underselling how terrible this year's roster is. LeBlanc, Carter, and Mourning in the frontcourt have a wide range of outcomes but no matter, they are literally replacing nobody. A fifth year senior, a 3-star, and a 4-star recruit are purely additive. That's how bad this roster is. The only people who will need to replace anyone are Mac and whomever else we get at point. They replace two low major reserve level talents. Again, wide range of outcomes but really hard to fall lower than the Dickermore well. This year's team isn't close. But next year's might be. It's a completely different situation. I agree. With all Big East freshmen Pickett, Blair; with incoming LeBlanc, Carter; with Mourning now we are starting to get to players with a motor. That is some of what we have been missing (motor players). These are coach E type of players. If Govan and Derrickson returns now you truly began to shift the direction toward more positive assertive energy, assertive play. Now if we get that aggressive assertive guard play from Mac and any other possible incoming recruits then Coach E can now further his plans. Given the minutes some of our other guys have been given they should be able to work hard over the summer be counted on quality backups. This is where a roster begins to develop. Will we be there not quite but we are heading there in the right direction. Then it is a matter of recruiting to not only build a starting lineup but to have the next starting lineup in development and ready to go as players move on. It is a process in building and building toward.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,750
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 4, 2018 15:53:52 GMT -5
At one level this makes perfect sense,and I try hard convincing myself that we are really not that far away. If we only had a scoring pg or just a bit more depth in the front court this is a 10-8 team today. Then reality hits looking forward to 2018 with a returning back court of Mosely and Blair.Some very unproven front court recruits in Carter and LeBlanc which may help a little and what many here think is the savior at guard in McClung whom every time I've see him play on video against real AAU competition it's like why is anyone getting excited. Then of course it's Johnson will improve I'm still waiting for that to happen this year. Who knows what we have in Mourning if he had a different or was at another big time school he would have been recruited over and the message sent a while ago its time to look at other schools. I hope I'm wrong but at this point just another warm body. The bright light is Jamarko needs to drastically improve his handle, strength, first step,hand overall quickness and please move him from a 2g to a real wing or 3 he can be very special. Going forward as of today 9-9 in BE nrxt year is a real reach and we are much closer to this years 5-13. If they can find another guard or 2 that are significant upgrades on both sides of the ball than Mulmore and Dickerson this spring and McClung can have some immediate impact then who knows I'll reserve judgement until November. With 6 scholarships available over the next 2 years how those are used will determine both short and long term future of the program Patrick has a very small room for error and can afford very few mistakes. I think you're underselling how terrible this year's roster is. LeBlanc, Carter, and Mourning in the frontcourt have a wide range of outcomes but no matter, they are literally replacing nobody. A fifth year senior, a 3-star, and a 4-star recruit are purely additive. That's how bad this roster is. The only people who will need to replace anyone are Mac and whomever else we get at point. They replace two low major reserve level talents. Again, wide range of outcomes but really hard to fall lower than the Dickermore well. This year's team isn't close. But next year's might be. It's a completely different situation. All of this is true and encouraging. That said, I don’t know why everybody seems to think Govan and Derrickson are coming back. I think there’s at least a 25% chance Govan, in particular, goes pro.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 4, 2018 16:00:26 GMT -5
There’s been so much focus on offense in this thread and over the course of the year a whole. But I really think yesterday and other games really demonstrate how poor and defense is and how hard it makes it to win games - it’s also part of the reason why those close games ended up in losses or Ot losses instead of wins.
I am hoping the infusion of new personnel and improvement of our existing guys will lead to better defense next year. Ewing clearly knows it’s a problem because he has said it in timeouts. I don’t know how the defensive problem gets fixed but it’s really important for our future success.
I am not saying the offense isn’t a problem - it is - but I think for significant offensive improvement we need better players.
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justsaying
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 709
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Post by justsaying on Mar 4, 2018 16:01:55 GMT -5
I think you're underselling how terrible this year's roster is. LeBlanc, Carter, and Mourning in the frontcourt have a wide range of outcomes but no matter, they are literally replacing nobody. A fifth year senior, a 3-star, and a 4-star recruit are purely additive. That's how bad this roster is. The only people who will need to replace anyone are Mac and whomever else we get at point. They replace two low major reserve level talents. Again, wide range of outcomes but really hard to fall lower than the Dickermore well. This year's team isn't close. But next year's might be. It's a completely different situation. All of this is true and encouraging. That said, I don’t know why everybody seems to think Govan and Derrickson are coming back. I think there’s at least a 25% chance Govan, in particular, goes pro. If Govan's name is not on anyone's big board and given that one more year under Coach E, possible All big East Honors, possible one of the faces of the conference, his chances of being on the big board I would think would have greater chances of being there. I do not see hardly any of the mock drafts have him there yet.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 4, 2018 16:03:40 GMT -5
All of this is true and encouraging. That said, I don’t know why everybody seems to think Govan and Derrickson are coming back. I think there’s at least a 25% chance Govan, in particular, goes pro. If you can’t even make a first All Big East team you likely shouldn’t be going pro. I think all this talk about Govan and Derrickson going pro is crazy - I am not saying it won’t happen because people make bad decisions all the time - but it really makes little if any sense. Govan and Derrickson have zero chance of playing in the NBA next year, and instead have the chance to having way better exposure and coaching here to help them reach the next level, as opposed to Europe. To me, it shouldn’t even be a question for either one, unless for some reason there is a life circumstance under which they need immediate money versus waiting a year and getting a degree.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Mar 4, 2018 16:07:58 GMT -5
The most egregious recruiting error JTIII made during his tenure as Hoyas coach was to allow his program to be cast as “pg unfriendly”. By that I mean he stubbornly bragged that his Princeton styled offense did not need a pure pg, but rather could function with a point-forward running the team. This gave all the other coaches fodder to tell highly recruited pg’s that going to Georgetown would be a death kneel for his NBA ambitions. By the time he realized that this was foolhardy the dye had been cast and his recruitment of other positions had declined also. We are now waiting for Patrick to land that transitional pg to get this program back to where it belongs. Did he actually say that? I recall him stating something to the effect there aren't set positions, but rather players. There were a lot of errors. The most egregious was roster construction. He came from Princeton where recruiting is much different and players aren't on scholarship. That ties into motivational factors too. Guys at Princeton actually want to play there. Probably didn't have to reach/connect with players as much in the Ivy league compared to Big East recruits. III just didn't know how to build rosters. His best teams had two NBA players Esh recruited/had committed. That is why we are where we are. Plus, III had good PG's in Wright and Starks. Still didn't help advance us deep into the NCAA tournament. Either way, opposing coaches didn't even have to tell recruits. Everybody III put into the NBA and stayed there were forwards or centers. On top of that he couldn't recruit more athletic players. On top of that, he couldn't coach defense without fouling with the new rule changes. In spite of all that, he did some good things here. He reached his ceiling and then everything declined.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Mar 4, 2018 16:28:55 GMT -5
III did say that he didn’t need a PG repeatedly in pre-game pressers.
There was a banquet — the year CW and Austin graduated — where III announced a new era of Georgetown basketball and said that he would be recruiting players who were long. I wondered then what the reduced emphasis upon guards would bring us. It worked for a couple of years, largely because Georgetown landed Otto. But Jason and Markel were undeniably big parts of those teams. But there was no real effort to get Markel a back up.
The negative recruiting probably didn’t help but III did not push to fill the position. But really the results spoke for themselves.
But @the_way is correct. He had many good years. It just ran its course.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 4, 2018 18:37:57 GMT -5
III did say that he didn’t need a PG repeatedly in pre-game pressers. There was a banquet — the year CW and Austin graduated — where III announced a new era of Georgetown basketball and said that he would be recruiting players who were long. I wondered then what the reduced emphasis upon guards would bring us. It worked for a couple of years, largely because Georgetown landed Otto. But Jason and Markel were undeniably big parts of those teams. But there was no real effort to get Markel a back up. The negative recruiting probably didn’t help but III did not push to fill the position. But really the results spoke for themselves. But @the_way is correct. He had many good years. It just ran its course. But he finally realized he did when he recruited Bracey and then Waters. He said his system didn't require a point guard. I disagreed. Any team needs a floor general. This hurt. Bad.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 4, 2018 18:39:59 GMT -5
The most egregious recruiting error JTIII made during his tenure as Hoyas coach was to allow his program to be cast as “pg unfriendly”. By that I mean he stubbornly bragged that his Princeton styled offense did not need a pure pg, but rather could function with a point-forward running the team. This gave all the other coaches fodder to tell highly recruited pg’s that going to Georgetown would be a death kneel for his NBA ambitions. By the time he realized that this was foolhardy the dye had been cast and his recruitment of other positions had declined also. We are now waiting for Patrick to land that transitional pg to get this program back to where it belongs. Did he actually say that? I recall him stating something to the effect there aren't set positions, but rather players. There were a lot of errors. The most egregious was roster construction. He came from Princeton where recruiting is much different and players aren't on scholarship. That ties into motivational factors too. Guys at Princeton actually want to play there. Probably didn't have to reach/connect with players as much in the Ivy league compared to Big East recruits. III just didn't know how to build rosters. His best teams had two NBA players Esh recruited/had committed. That is why we are where we are. Plus, III had good PG's in Wright and Starks. Still didn't help advance us deep into the NCAA tournament. Either way, opposing coaches didn't even have to tell recruits. Everybody III put into the NBA and stayed there were forwards or centers. On top of that he couldn't recruit more athletic players. On top of that, he couldn't coach defense without fouling with the new rule changes. In spite of all that, he did some good things here. He reached his ceiling and then everything declined. If Wright didn't get hurt he would've drove us pretty deep into the tournament. He got better and better. I've seen Lumpy and my son was Lumpy's teammate when he was 8 my son was going on 13 lol...OJ his brother was going on 13 as well. I have one tape with a few of those games. I need to get them put on a DVD. Wrights dad was our coach. He's like a big brother to me.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Mar 4, 2018 19:02:08 GMT -5
At one level this makes perfect sense,and I try hard convincing myself that we are really not that far away. If we only had a scoring pg or just a bit more depth in the front court this is a 10-8 team today. Then reality hits looking forward to 2018 with a returning back court of Mosely and Blair.Some very unproven front court recruits in Carter and LeBlanc which may help a little and what many here think is the savior at guard in McClung whom every time I've see him play on video against real AAU competition it's like why is anyone getting excited. Then of course it's Johnson will improve I'm still waiting for that to happen this year. Who knows what we have in Mourning if he had a different or was at another big time school he would have been recruited over and the message sent a while ago its time to look at other schools. I hope I'm wrong but at this point just another warm body. The bright light is Jamarko needs to drastically improve his handle, strength, first step,hand overall quickness and please move him from a 2g to a real wing or 3 he can be very special. Going forward as of today 9-9 in BE nrxt year is a real reach and we are much closer to this years 5-13. If they can find another guard or 2 that are significant upgrades on both sides of the ball than Mulmore and Dickerson this spring and McClung can have some immediate impact then who knows I'll reserve judgement until November. With 6 scholarships available over the next 2 years how those are used will determine both short and long term future of the program Patrick has a very small room for error and can afford very few mistakes. hoyainla has been saying this but until now I have not seen anyone else make the same statement. Appreciate it, I will take a tempered expectation over the next big thing expectation any-day. Just take a look at the Team loaded game tape posted from late July against the Oakland Soldiers I think, and you will go, did we make a mistake? Then I came across a mixtape with Team Loaded and i'm totally sold on the young man. Wait until November In any case we need another strong guard that can hit from outside and defend at this level from day one. You do have to admit that despite the obvious limitations of Mulmore and Dickerson Ewing was able to get a lot out of them. They each improved significantly throughout the season. Love to see them build on it over the next couple or three games.
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