miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Feb 12, 2018 21:31:54 GMT -5
NIT? NIT? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) This team is NCAA bound, baybee! Pretty much need to win out, but 4-1 reg season, 2-1 BET, we're in! I believe. Team is getting better by the day, the D is fierce, MD and JG are a load for A-N-Y-B-O-D-Y, let's roll!!!!
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sleepy
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Feb 12, 2018 21:35:46 GMT -5
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Post by sleepy on Feb 12, 2018 21:35:46 GMT -5
It’s not a tournament team, barring extremely good fortune (better?). There’s a reason they blew all those games Now it's better.. I agree that the team wasn't a lock to make the NCAA's but you still can't schedule the way the program did because you think making the tourney is a long shot.. Good fortune can shine on any program at any time, ask PC fans last season.. This team is a lot better than a lot of fans & others thought they'd be, that much I do know.. But you can't separate the improvement of the team with the easy schedule up front. Maybe they don't improve and fall apart if they are bouyed by a more difficult conference schedule. Who knows but you can't separate the results from the journey. That being said, I don't think anyone thinks we should schedule like that again. But I do think taking it relatively easy early in the year can benefitical for s group like this that struggles with confidence.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Feb 12, 2018 21:47:11 GMT -5
We had a major anchor around our necks in terms of making the post season once we scheduled the way we did. The truth is, I think even a 9-9 record in the league would have us on the bubble, at best. I'm not beating the horse of the schedule here-- I get why Ewing did it. The team needed confidence, and we weren't really looking at a tournament run this year. But the fact is, it's really hard to make the NCAAs with a schedule that weak, even if you win the games. Now to be fair we have a lot of other weaknesses that would've kept us from the tourney. Just saying that you have to schedule harder games to make it now. I also think it's best to avoid looking at what would happen "if all the lucky bounces went our way." That's not how any season goes. We have had some tough losses, but we've had some luck too. Miss a couple more shots against SJU in each game and against Seton Hall and we have just one league win. The second guessing just doesn't go so far. Bottom line-- making the NIT would be a great accomplishment for this team. The folks thumbing their noses at the NIT are just missing the advantages of extra practices and games in a tournament setting. Unlike the lesser tournaments the NIT still offers a chance to play for a trophy in a meaningful environment. I'm trying not to look too far ahead, though. To make it, I think we need three more wins (Providence, Marquette, and another upset), and a win or two in New York to go along with it. The team is showing progress; I'll just be hoping they keep doing that in each game. Every single time I heard this argument made by an ESPN employee it made my blood boil. They are completely biased against the big east as they never watch our conference games or really any BE games. They severely underrated our league and call it a non-power 5 conference. For a conference which has been and still is the best in the county this argument baffles me. Like, our conference has 70% in the NCAA tournament conversation plus one who beat Duke and Nova (Johnnies) and one who has played almost every team in the country close (GTWN). I mean there is no argument with any conference that is not the big 12. And frankly, Maryland always has a weak schedule yet that gets look past since they play in the Big 10. I see no reason why that team would be ranked ahead of us aside from beating Butler early in the season. And frankly, IF we beat them tomorrow (which I can see happening, but don't) we have a stronger schedule then the (INCL conference) and one less conference win against better teams. The conference bias really annoys me at this time of year. Now, I don't think nor expect GTWN to be in the NCAA tournament, obviously, but when being compared to teams like Maryland and being ranked as inferior it angers me. AT the same token, a team like Kansas ST should be angry in the same way as they are much better then their seed line projections. IMO the only two reasons 4 to 5 BE teams aren't ranked are conference bias and they have to play each other twice. I usually am always watching the bubble at this time and this year will be no different. But seeing UMD looked at like a strong team every year when in reality their weak non conference schedule is poor (just not this bad) again makes me angry. This argument shouldn't be made by a strong Big 10 Maryland fan. Really this is why I made my delusional GTWN NCAA post earlier in the thread. What happens to UMD+ Marquette this year. It's delusional, but a dream that the committee realizes who the best conference in basketball is. And I didn't mean his to be a dig at any of you, but the media who does this every year and convinces people that it is true.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Feb 12, 2018 21:48:24 GMT -5
NIT? NIT? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) This team is NCAA bound, baybee! Pretty much need to win out, but 4-1 reg season, 2-1 BET, we're in! I believe. Team is getting better by the day, the D is fierce, MD and JG are a load for A-N-Y-B-O-D-Y, let's roll!!!! You might be as delusional as me my friend. I said almost the exact same thing earlier in the thread. It would be a miracle!
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bamahoya11
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Feb 12, 2018 22:01:53 GMT -5
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Post by bamahoya11 on Feb 12, 2018 22:01:53 GMT -5
We had a major anchor around our necks in terms of making the post season once we scheduled the way we did. The truth is, I think even a 9-9 record in the league would have us on the bubble, at best. I'm not beating the horse of the schedule here-- I get why Ewing did it. The team needed confidence, and we weren't really looking at a tournament run this year. But the fact is, it's really hard to make the NCAAs with a schedule that weak, even if you win the games. Now to be fair we have a lot of other weaknesses that would've kept us from the tourney. Just saying that you have to schedule harder games to make it now. I also think it's best to avoid looking at what would happen "if all the lucky bounces went our way." That's not how any season goes. We have had some tough losses, but we've had some luck too. Miss a couple more shots against SJU in each game and against Seton Hall and we have just one league win. The second guessing just doesn't go so far. Bottom line-- making the NIT would be a great accomplishment for this team. The folks thumbing their noses at the NIT are just missing the advantages of extra practices and games in a tournament setting. Unlike the lesser tournaments the NIT still offers a chance to play for a trophy in a meaningful environment. I'm trying not to look too far ahead, though. To make it, I think we need three more wins (Providence, Marquette, and another upset), and a win or two in New York to go along with it. The team is showing progress; I'll just be hoping they keep doing that in each game. Every single time I heard this argument made by an ESPN employee it made my blood boil. They are completely biased against the big east as they never watch our conference games or really any BE games. They severely underrated our league and call it a non-power 5 conference. For a conference which has been and still is the best in the county this argument baffles me. Like, our conference has 70% in the NCAA tournament conversation plus one who beat Duke and Nova (Johnnies) and one who has played almost every team in the country close (GTWN). I mean there is no argument with any conference that is not the big 12. And frankly, Maryland always has a weak schedule yet that gets look past since they play in the Big 10. I see no reason why that team would be ranked ahead of us aside from beating Butler early in the season. And frankly, IF we beat them tomorrow (which I can see happening, but don't) we have a stronger schedule then the (INCL conference) and one less conference win against better teams. The conference bias really annoys me at this time of year. Now, I don't think nor expect GTWN to be in the NCAA tournament, obviously, but when being compared to teams like Maryland and being ranked as inferior it angers me. AT the same token, a team like Kansas ST should be angry in the same way as they are much better then their seed line projections. IMO the only two reasons 4 to 5 BE teams aren't ranked are conference bias and they have to play each other twice. I usually am always watching the bubble at this time and this year will be no different. But seeing UMD looked at like a strong team every year when in reality their weak non conference schedule is poor (just not this bad) again makes me angry. This argument shouldn't be made by a strong Big 10 Maryland fan. Really this is why I made my delusional GTWN NCAA post earlier in the thread. What happens to UMD+ Marquette this year. It's delusional, but a dream that the committee realizes who the best conference in basketball is. And I didn't mean his to be a dig at any of you, but the media who does this every year and convinces people that it is true. ESPN beat our schedule to death for their own purposes, sure. Frankly, it wouldn't be good for them if our scheduling model worked. If you could schedule all your non conference games at home, go .500 in a major league, and STILL make the tournament, a lot of teams might start to rethink their scheduling. Those made for tv tournaments would be less appealing than ten easy games at home. But the truth is, you can't schedule that badly and have a realistic chance at an NCAA berth these days. Nor do I really think you should . There is a big difference between a strength of schedule of 150 or 200 or even 250 and having the worst OOC in college basketball. A team shouldn't be rewarded by the committee for doing that. It doesn't take away at all from what this team has done, though, and the improvements we have made. As I said above, an NIT berth would be a tremendous accomplishment for this team and for Ewing in his debut year.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 12, 2018 22:19:36 GMT -5
Now it's better.. I agree that the team wasn't a lock to make the NCAA's but you still can't schedule the way the program did because you think making the tourney is a long shot.. Good fortune can shine on any program at any time, ask PC fans last season.. This team is a lot better than a lot of fans & others thought they'd be, that much I do know.. But you can't separate the improvement of the team with the easy schedule up front. Maybe they don't improve and fall apart if they are bouyed by a more difficult conference schedule. Who knows but you can't separate the results from the journey. That being said, I don't think anyone thinks we should schedule like that again. But I do think taking it relatively easy early in the year can benefitical for s group like this that struggles with confidence. If the team hasn't fallen apart this late in the season after a number of tough losses, what would make anyone think playing in the PK80 would have caused them to fall apart in the ooc? The team has gotten better by going thru the trials of a tough conference season, to me the ooc had very little to do with anything.. In fairness a tougher ooc schedule may not have helped either but it's better to schedule that way for reasons that has been talked about..
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mdtd
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Feb 12, 2018 22:22:35 GMT -5
Post by mdtd on Feb 12, 2018 22:22:35 GMT -5
Every single time I heard this argument made by an ESPN employee it made my blood boil. They are completely biased against the big east as they never watch our conference games or really any BE games. They severely underrated our league and call it a non-power 5 conference. For a conference which has been and still is the best in the county this argument baffles me. Like, our conference has 70% in the NCAA tournament conversation plus one who beat Duke and Nova (Johnnies) and one who has played almost every team in the country close (GTWN). I mean there is no argument with any conference that is not the big 12. And frankly, Maryland always has a weak schedule yet that gets look past since they play in the Big 10. I see no reason why that team would be ranked ahead of us aside from beating Butler early in the season. And frankly, IF we beat them tomorrow (which I can see happening, but don't) we have a stronger schedule then the (INCL conference) and one less conference win against better teams. The conference bias really annoys me at this time of year. Now, I don't think nor expect GTWN to be in the NCAA tournament, obviously, but when being compared to teams like Maryland and being ranked as inferior it angers me. AT the same token, a team like Kansas ST should be angry in the same way as they are much better then their seed line projections. IMO the only two reasons 4 to 5 BE teams aren't ranked are conference bias and they have to play each other twice. I usually am always watching the bubble at this time and this year will be no different. But seeing UMD looked at like a strong team every year when in reality their weak non conference schedule is poor (just not this bad) again makes me angry. This argument shouldn't be made by a strong Big 10 Maryland fan. Really this is why I made my delusional GTWN NCAA post earlier in the thread. What happens to UMD+ Marquette this year. It's delusional, but a dream that the committee realizes who the best conference in basketball is. And I didn't mean his to be a dig at any of you, but the media who does this every year and convinces people that it is true. ESPN beat our schedule to death for their own purposes, sure. Frankly, it wouldn't be good for them if our scheduling model worked. If you could schedule all your non conference games at home, go .500 in a major league, and STILL make the tournament, a lot of teams might start to rethink their scheduling. Those made for tv tournaments would be less appealing than ten easy games at home. But the truth is, you can't schedule that badly and have a realistic chance at an NCAA berth these days. Nor do I really think you should . There is a big difference between a strength of schedule of 150 or 200 or even 250 and having the worst OOC in college basketball. A team shouldn't be rewarded by the committee for doing that. It doesn't take away at all from what this team has done, though, and the improvements we have made. As I said above, an NIT berth would be a tremendous accomplishment for this team and for Ewing in his debut year. As much as I wish your argument was the truth and it seemed to me in the JT3 years, it isn't really. Granted I'm a negative person and will go at anything if I think it should be changed especially with the sport I love. But looking at teams like Arkansas, Missouri, Louisville and more. They may have played 2 difficult teams, but they did not win. Georgetown for example, if we had scheduled Kansas instead of Maine (just for example sake) and we lost to Kansas that shouldn't help our resume and usually doesn't. It's about who you beat and those teams didn't beat anyone early in the year and are projected tournament teams. My Maryland example works in years past and frankly with them on the bubble this year, my argument should stand. If they go 2-2/3-1 (as I'd predict) then win one game in the B10 tournament vs. us going 4-1 and a win in the BE we'd have a significantly better resume with the quality of team in the conference. And they'd likely be in ahead of us which is ridiculous. And frankly on the game im watching now WVU/TCU the analyst said the new brackets were for attention and talked up the big ten. It is a huge pet peeve of mine, especially as a Hoya fan.
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mdtd
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Feb 12, 2018 22:27:41 GMT -5
Post by mdtd on Feb 12, 2018 22:27:41 GMT -5
But you can't separate the improvement of the team with the easy schedule up front. Maybe they don't improve and fall apart if they are bouyed by a more difficult conference schedule. Who knows but you can't separate the results from the journey. That being said, I don't think anyone thinks we should schedule like that again. But I do think taking it relatively easy early in the year can benefitical for s group like this that struggles with confidence. If the team hasn't fallen apart this late in the season after a number of tough losses, what would make anyone think playing in the PK80 would have caused them to fall apart in the ooc? The team has gotten better by going thru the trials of a tough conference season, to me the ooc had very little to do with anything.. In fairness a tougher ooc schedule may not have helped either but it's better to schedule that way for reasons that has been talked about.. It was a move for confidence and recruiting purposes. Ewing had no idea how this year could've went in his first year with a completely renovated system and much different from what JT3 ran. Ewing has gotten his team wins that they wouldn't have been expected to and to even be talking about this now is a success for him. Other than leaving the pk80, do you guys think Ewing had enough time to design a system, recruit for this and next year and schedule solid competition. Seems very difficult for him and prioritized the future which I respect over a potential yr1 failure leading to a failed career as a coach.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 12, 2018 22:44:05 GMT -5
If the team hasn't fallen apart this late in the season after a number of tough losses, what would make anyone think playing in the PK80 would have caused them to fall apart in the ooc? The team has gotten better by going thru the trials of a tough conference season, to me the ooc had very little to do with anything.. In fairness a tougher ooc schedule may not have helped either but it's better to schedule that way for reasons that has been talked about.. Exactly. We didn’t start the Big East well, and have only started showing some progress in the last month or so (and still only 1-9 against top 50 teams). I don’t see how the poor OOC was helpful to Ewing either. For example, Mulmore and Kaleb did very well in the OOC and then were neutralized against better competition. How is that helpful to anyone? As a coach, I would think it’s hard to assess your team when they aren’t even challenged and they face an entirely different type of opponent suddenly once conference play starts.
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NIT?
Feb 12, 2018 22:48:32 GMT -5
Post by JohnnyJones on Feb 12, 2018 22:48:32 GMT -5
If the team hasn't fallen apart this late in the season after a number of tough losses, what would make anyone think playing in the PK80 would have caused them to fall apart in the ooc? The team has gotten better by going thru the trials of a tough conference season, to me the ooc had very little to do with anything.. In fairness a tougher ooc schedule may not have helped either but it's better to schedule that way for reasons that has been talked about.. It was a move for confidence and recruiting purposes. Ewing had no idea how this year could've went in his first year with a completely renovated system and much different from what JT3 ran. Ewing has gotten his team wins that they wouldn't have been expected to and to even be talking about this now is a success for him. Other than leaving the pk80, do you guys think Ewing had enough time to design a system, recruit for this and next year and schedule solid competition. Seems very difficult for him and prioritized the future which I respect over a potential yr1 failure leading to a failed career as a coach. I assume when you say "recruiting purposes" you mean that our horrific early season schedule freed up the staff to go out and more actively recruit because they didn't have to spend much time prepping for our opponents. Because you cant possibly mean that the OOC schedule (and the horrible crowds, press and overall malaise that went with it) appealed in any way to potential recruits.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 12, 2018 22:56:04 GMT -5
If the team hasn't fallen apart this late in the season after a number of tough losses, what would make anyone think playing in the PK80 would have caused them to fall apart in the ooc? The team has gotten better by going thru the trials of a tough conference season, to me the ooc had very little to do with anything.. In fairness a tougher ooc schedule may not have helped either but it's better to schedule that way for reasons that has been talked about.. It was a move for confidence and recruiting purposes. Ewing had no idea how this year could've went in his first year with a completely renovated system and much different from what JT3 ran. Ewing has gotten his team wins that they wouldn't have been expected to and to even be talking about this now is a success for him. Other than leaving the pk80, do you guys think Ewing had enough time to design a system, recruit for this and next year and schedule solid competition. Seems very difficult for him and prioritized the future which I respect over a potential yr1 failure leading to a failed career as a coach. Yes..
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miracles87
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NIT?
Feb 12, 2018 22:59:56 GMT -5
Post by miracles87 on Feb 12, 2018 22:59:56 GMT -5
NIT? NIT? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) This team is NCAA bound, baybee! Pretty much need to win out, but 4-1 reg season, 2-1 BET, we're in! I believe. Team is getting better by the day, the D is fierce, MD and JG are a load for A-N-Y-B-O-D-Y, let's roll!!!! You might be as delusional as me my friend. I said almost the exact same thing earlier in the thread. It would be a miracle! As Georgetown continues on their upward trajectory, wouldn't be at all surprised if folks stop canning threes like late summer tomatoes. At this point the Hoyas can still get in without an automatic, just got to win. We win tomorrow, NIT talk needs to be tabled.
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KHoyaNYC
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Feb 12, 2018 23:08:39 GMT -5
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Feb 12, 2018 23:08:39 GMT -5
Love the optimism and post season talk. NCAAs we need 7 more wins to even be in a fringe discussion and still probably not enough. We should shoot to win the big east tournament, any at large hopes for NCAAs are nil. NIT, however, will hinge on these next 5 games. We win 4 out of 5, in the mix for sure.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 12, 2018 23:24:39 GMT -5
Man this board is wacky. One win and we are talking about an NCAA bid. A couple more and we get talk of a final four bid?
Hoyas playing with house money rest of season. Hoping for a few more wins and playing spoiler in the BE tournament.
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mdtd
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Feb 12, 2018 23:33:27 GMT -5
Post by mdtd on Feb 12, 2018 23:33:27 GMT -5
Man this board is wacky. One win and we are talking about an NCAA bid. A couple more and we get talk of a final four bid? Hoyas playing with house money rest of season. Hoping for a few more wins and playing spoiler in the BE tournament. I'm a dreamer alright... Plus I just hate this conference being looked down on. I don't expect an NCAA tournament bid in the slightest and an NIT bid would be excellent for the future. I just wanted to bring things up for conversation sake too. Nobody truly expects a tournament bid truly but at the beginning of the year, someone told me I realistically could even think about postseason play at this point I'd be ecstatic. Let alone the NCAA. It's an improvement from not being eligible for the NIT last 2 years to being in the conversation is nice. Just need wins. Even with me not expecting it, it is nice to talk about. ANd prepare for next year where we could be in the NCAA tournament.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 13, 2018 0:02:54 GMT -5
It’s not a tournament team, barring extremely good fortune (better?). There’s a reason they blew all those games Now it's better.. I agree that the team wasn't a lock to make the NCAA's but you still can't schedule the way the program did because you think making the tourney is a long shot.. Good fortune can shine on any program at any time, ask PC fans last season.. This team is a lot better than a lot of fans & others thought they'd be, that much I do know.. I didn’t like the OOC schedule this season either - and I really hated that we pulled out of the Knight tourney. The ooc games made my season tickets pretty much worthless. But I think certain people here harp on it way too much, and the way the team and season are progressing it’s hard to say it was the wrong strategy this season. Again, this presupposes that making the NCAA tourney was not happening this season. This season had a unique set of circumstances- If we schedule like this going forward I’ll have a much bigger issue with it.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Feb 13, 2018 0:16:53 GMT -5
But you can't separate the improvement of the team with the easy schedule up front. Maybe they don't improve and fall apart if they are bouyed by a more difficult conference schedule. Who knows but you can't separate the results from the journey. That being said, I don't think anyone thinks we should schedule like that again. But I do think taking it relatively easy early in the year can benefitical for s group like this that struggles with confidence. If the team hasn't fallen apart this late in the season after a number of tough losses, what would make anyone think playing in the PK80 would have caused them to fall apart in the ooc? The team has gotten better by going thru the trials of a tough conference season, to me the ooc had very little to do with anything.. In fairness a tougher ooc schedule may not have helped either but it's better to schedule that way for reasons that has been talked about.. Because they were able to create a foundation early in the year. I watched these same players crumble after losing to Maryland and then Arkansas St. There is plenty of reason to think they would have crumbled with a more difficult OOC. Not to mention they still currently have a winning record. A few more OOC losses and the Big East trials might have been too much to overcome. You are taking for granted their improvement and using it against the methods that contributed to the improvement. It's not really fair.
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kbones17
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Feb 13, 2018 1:53:19 GMT -5
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Post by kbones17 on Feb 13, 2018 1:53:19 GMT -5
Man this board is wacky. One win and we are talking about an NCAA bid. A couple more and we get talk of a final four bid? Hoyas playing with house money rest of season. Hoping for a few more wins and playing spoiler in the BE tournament. Agree, I love the optimism and the positive vibes. I am just hoping for two more wins in whatever fashion we can. Just keep fighting and improving.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Feb 13, 2018 8:53:51 GMT -5
While it wasn’t fun as a fan or a season ticket holder, I’ve given Ewing a pass on the schedule this year. Not because I think it gave the team confidence or that I think the wins on their own help anything. But because it gave, essentially, an extra 2 months of practices (vs the 4 weeks or so allotted) for Ewing to teach his system and get the team doing what he wanted them to do. It lined up as 8 or 9 scrimmages with a handful of fans.
Since they were essentially starting from zero, I don’t actually think that scheduling tougher would have advanced that ability. (Though it might have helped with end game decision making).
Job 1 this year was instituting a system and a team culture, which we’re starting to see the fruits of now. There’s no way to know how that would have shaken out if they had to spend more time game-planning against tough opponents in the OOC, but I’m willing to give a pass.
Next season, that approach doesn’t hold.
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bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Feb 13, 2018 10:04:02 GMT -5
ESPN beat our schedule to death for their own purposes, sure. Frankly, it wouldn't be good for them if our scheduling model worked. If you could schedule all your non conference games at home, go .500 in a major league, and STILL make the tournament, a lot of teams might start to rethink their scheduling. Those made for tv tournaments would be less appealing than ten easy games at home. But the truth is, you can't schedule that badly and have a realistic chance at an NCAA berth these days. Nor do I really think you should . There is a big difference between a strength of schedule of 150 or 200 or even 250 and having the worst OOC in college basketball. A team shouldn't be rewarded by the committee for doing that. It doesn't take away at all from what this team has done, though, and the improvements we have made. As I said above, an NIT berth would be a tremendous accomplishment for this team and for Ewing in his debut year. As much as I wish your argument was the truth and it seemed to me in the JT3 years, it isn't really. Granted I'm a negative person and will go at anything if I think it should be changed especially with the sport I love. But looking at teams like Arkansas, Missouri, Louisville and more. They may have played 2 difficult teams, but they did not win. Georgetown for example, if we had scheduled Kansas instead of Maine (just for example sake) and we lost to Kansas that shouldn't help our resume and usually doesn't. It's about who you beat and those teams didn't beat anyone early in the year and are projected tournament teams. My Maryland example works in years past and frankly with them on the bubble this year, my argument should stand. If they go 2-2/3-1 (as I'd predict) then win one game in the B10 tournament vs. us going 4-1 and a win in the BE we'd have a significantly better resume with the quality of team in the conference. And they'd likely be in ahead of us which is ridiculous. And frankly on the game im watching now WVU/TCU the analyst said the new brackets were for attention and talked up the big ten. It is a huge pet peeve of mine, especially as a Hoya fan. Arkansas beat Oklahoma, Connecticut, and Minnesota in out of conference play. They have a loss to UNC. And in league play they've beat Tennessee. And frankly, they're far from a lock. Arkansas played a far superior OOC schedule to ours, both in terms of games they won and quality of play. We aren't even in the same ballpark. Again, my objection isn't that we played Maine, or even that we scheduled basically 8 or 9 of the worst teams in the country in Ewing's first year with a limited roster. It's that you can't schedule that way and expect a tournament berth in any league at .500. And for what it's worth I do think the BE is among the best leagues.
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