Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 11:15:52 GMT -5
Think you already responded to this one.... The book is still out on Mullin's abilities in my view but your articles suggesting he's on the hot seat before his 3rd season began doesn't really back up your claim that he gets a pass for his first year. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 10, 2018 11:16:30 GMT -5
Yeah, not sure why we would be in the category of no prayer of the NIT. Truthfully, we have plenty of oppts left to get good wins. Not saying it will happen, but almost every BE team outside of STJ and DeP is a good win. It sucked to lose to Butler and Cuse the way we did, but beating Marq and Providence at home would likely be as good. I disagree GUJook97 and TrueHoyaBlue. As hoyasaxa2003 has mentioned in the past, the NIT selection standards are now an extension of the NCAA selection standards. So in reality, being being in the bubble conversation means being in the NIT conversation. In 2016 when Marquette had a bad non-conference schedule (326 Non Conf SOS), they ended up 20-13 (8-10 in conference) and didn't make the NIT. Getting to 500 or better is no longer good enough to be in the NIT conversation. Back in December the NCAA selection committee announced a new format for their team sheets this year. Team records are divided into four groups for evaluating teams: RPI Group 1: Home (1-30), Neutral (1-50), Away (1-75) RPI Group 2: Home (31-75), Neutral (51-100), Away (76-135) RPI Group 3: Home (76-160), Neutral (101-200), Away (136-240) RPI Group 4: Home (161-351), Neutral (201-351), Away (241-351) Last night was Georgetown's first Group 1 win of the season. Their record is not 1-4 against Group 1, 0-0 against Group 2, 1-0 against Group 3, and 10-0 against Group 4. Without the Syracuse and Butler wins, it's going to be an uphill battle to get in the postseason conversation. Yes, the other big thing is that teams that win their conference (but not their conference tournament) get auto-bids to the NIT. The result is that there are fewer at-large slots. Moreover, before the NCAA bought the NIT tournament, the NIT used to schedule big-name schools in an effort to get better ratings and have a more profitable tournament. Since the NCAA purchased the NIT and changed their criteria, this simply isn't the case anymore. In the past, being Georgetown and having a better than .500 record would have been enough; now it isn't. It's hard to see any scenario where a 6-12 Big East team with an awful OOC schedule would play in the NIT, considering that an 8-10 Marquette team in 2016 with an awful OOC did not make it. In reality, the difference between barely getting into the NCAA tournament and the NIT is very narrow, and a sub .500 Big East record won't get us into either one. |
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jan 10, 2018 11:16:45 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of these comments, but I actually thought the D on the last possession was good, and Im glad for once, the stupid refs didnt bail out the shooters. IMO, you shouldnt get that call unless it is completely obvious. The game already advantages 3 point shooting too much, and a lot of that is because you cant jump straight up to guard a 3 pt shot without some dumb foul called. I completely agree that it shouldn't be a foul when a shooter intentionally jumps into an airborne defender. But, unfortunately, it often is. So, in that singular situation -- where there's little time left and they need a three to tie -- you can't risk doing anything that might be called a three-shot foul in my view. "Almost fouled" is also known as "played great defense" in many circles. |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 10, 2018 11:25:59 GMT -5
What do you think are realistic expectations for a coach who took over a program 3 years ago that graduated 5 starters and whose best recruit his 1st year was Frederic Mussouni? They finished that year with an RPI close to 250. They were 6-1 before Lovette got hurt with 2 top 100 wins. NCAA Tournament by Year 3, with all the advantages that St. John's has, is not unreasonable. Mullin stinks as a coach. What decade are you in? What are all these advantages for St. John's? I'm not convinced on Mullin, but I will saw they played very good defense yesterday. The offense is a mess, but much like ours, there's not a lot of talent. I honestly don't watch enough SJU to really have a good feel on Mullin, but I somehow doubt you've watched all their games, either. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 10, 2018 11:29:13 GMT -5
I honestly don't know how anyone can be anything other than very pleased with last night's win - and in fact with the way this season has gone so far. Last year's team, with 2 players who are probably better than anyone on this year's roster, lost 8 of its last 9 games, with 3 of those losses coming to DePaul and St. John's!
This team is veryclose to being 14-2 with 2 very solid wins over Cuse and Butler. OK, so those didn't happen (horseshoes and hand grenades, et al) but they showed they can play with teams that will be very much in the mix for the NCAA tourney. As far as I'm concerned if this season continues on its current trajectory, it will be an unqualified success. For the most part I like what I see from Coach Ewing, and his demeanor on the sideline is actually pretty wonderful - and a great change from what we had become accustomed to over the past 5 seasons.
I'm all in. I really like watching this team, even in ugly games like last night. The Hoyas and their coach are getting better. It's been pretty fun to watch thus far.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 10, 2018 11:32:46 GMT -5
What do you think are realistic expectations for a coach who took over a program 3 years ago that graduated 5 starters and whose best recruit his 1st year was Frederic Mussouni? They finished that year with an RPI close to 250. They were 6-1 before Lovette got hurt with 2 top 100 wins. NCAA Tournament by Year 3, with all the advantages that St. John's has, is not unreasonable. Mullin stinks as a coach. What advantages does SJU have? St Johns is still a commuter school (only 28% students live on campus - USNews) and middle of the road academically (#165 Nationally - USNews). So what is the advantage that the school has? Being a 25 minute subway ride away from NYC in a very high cost of living area? Playing in an empty MSG, well off campus is not compelling either. I know back in the Carnesecca days they were allowed to provide a housing stipend because the school lacked enough dormitory space - basically allowing them to pay players since so many would just live at home in NYC. However, that is long gone, and not surprisingly, so has their ability to win consistently. |
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jan 10, 2018 11:36:21 GMT -5
Not anytime close to now. He inherited a mess and has had some bad breaks. It will be a few years before there can be any meaningful evaluation. So what's the number of years a coach gets to show progress? Looks to me like a complete failure. Was there anything you saw from St. John's last night to suggest they are a well-coached team? They are easily the best defensive team in the conference. They are outstanding as a team in playing together on the defensive side of the ball. I've watched and Recorded every BIG EAST Team's game this season in & out of conference. St. John's is easily the best defensive team in the conference. They play together on a rope. They are always in good defensive positioning and rotations. The ball enters the paint and all 5 defenders collapse into the paint to challenge the shot and get defensive rebounds. They're limited by overall size but are really coached well. They had a ton of issues last year defensively mostly with playing together consistently. Mullin has also done a great job in developing Owens who's probably the 2nd most improved player in the conference behind Krampelj. A year ago he couldn't score whatsoever. When he was in the game, outside of the occasional lob pass, he couldn't do anything and it was almost like the Johnnies were playing 4 vs 5 on offense. He's now developed the ability to knock down mid range jumpers with some consistency, has stepped out and hit some 3's and able to get to the rim off the bounce in straight line drive situations. He has improved tremendously. I could go into further details on the several improvements that Mullin has made with this team season to season and game to game...IMO based on the film, Mullin has been outstanding in putting this team in a position to win in almost every game without his starting PG who's also his 2nd best player. People look at the DePaul loss as this major disaster and an indictment on St. John's but in actuality DePaul is also tremendously improved from last year's team and will win a handful or so of conference games. I repeat what myself, what team's in this conference would win any games without their 2nd best player and starting PG outside of maybe Xavier & Villanova. This is the toughest 1-10 the BIG EAST has been since the reconfiguration. 90% of the games are decided by 2-4 possessions. You flip 2-4 possessions in most of these games and you have a different outcome. This league is about match-ups. St. John's could easily upset either 1 or both of Xavier and Villanova if the ball bounces for them. They could also loose both but then run off 6 straight wins in the conference when Lovett returns. |
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Jan 10, 2018 11:38:08 GMT -5
I honestly don't know how anyone can be anything other than very pleased with last night's win - and in fact with the way this season has gone so far. Last year's team, with 2 players who are probably better than anyone on this year's roster, lost 8 of its last 9 games, with 3 of those losses coming to DePaul and St. John's! This team is veryclose to being 14-2 with 2 very solid wins over Cuse and Butler. OK, so those didn't happen (horseshoes and hand grenades, et al) but they showed they can play with teams that will be very much in the mix for the NCAA tourney. As far as I'm concerned if this season continues on its current trajectory, it will be an unqualified success. For the most part I like what I see from Coach Ewing, and his demeanor on the sideline is actually pretty wonderful - and a great change from what we had become accustomed to over the past 5 seasons. I'm all in. I really like watching this team, even in ugly games like last night. The Hoyas and their coach are getting better. It's been pretty fun to watch thus far. Ewing cannot and should not be written off this year, no matter what happens the rest of the season. If, over the next 3-5 years, he is unable to upgrade the talent level--which all of us agree needs improvement--or, he gets the upgrade and the results don't improve, it is fair to blame the coach. |
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jan 10, 2018 11:40:10 GMT -5
You're not really giving him a pass on his first year though. Anyways they won 8 games in his first year and their rpi was close to 250. It's 71 now with their second best player missing 10 of 17 games... That's not considered improvement? Sure, it's improvement, but it's still bad. You can trot out 71 in the RPI, which isn't good for a high major team (of which there are less than 100 in the country)...but the reality is they are 0-5 in the Big East in year 3 of Mullin's regime. They play an ugly, disorganized style of basketball and look lost on the court. They have some talent, but don't have substantially more coming in after this season. I ask again: what evidence did you see last night to suggest that St. John's is a well-coached team? Hoyaboya it's quite obvious by your comments you aren't familiar with and haven't watched a lot St. John's play this year. I can't have an intelligent conversation with the uninformed...I'm out! |
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jan 10, 2018 11:41:31 GMT -5
I honestly don't know how anyone can be anything other than very pleased with last night's win - and in fact with the way this season has gone so far. Last year's team, with 2 players who are probably better than anyone on this year's roster, lost 8 of its last 9 games, with 3 of those losses coming to DePaul and St. John's! This team is veryclose to being 14-2 with 2 very solid wins over Cuse and Butler. OK, so those didn't happen (horseshoes and hand grenades, et al) but they showed they can play with teams that will be very much in the mix for the NCAA tourney. As far as I'm concerned if this season continues on its current trajectory, it will be an unqualified success. For the most part I like what I see from Coach Ewing, and his demeanor on the sideline is actually pretty wonderful - and a great change from what we had become accustomed to over the past 5 seasons. I'm all in. I really like watching this team, even in ugly games like last night. The Hoyas and their coach are getting better. It's been pretty fun to watch thus far. Agreed. I saw a comment that we have only beaten the teams we are "clearly" better than. We skipped pretty quickly from zero 8th-place or higher votes pre-season, to more than one possession underdogs in all 5 conference games to date, to suddenly being "clearly" better than St John's and Depaul and apparently we "should" beat them on the road. These wins were in no way a given and this conference is brutal. Ask St Johns. |
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 10, 2018 11:42:25 GMT -5
General thoughts on a game we should have won but I'm pretty sure St. John's just lost it. We didn't actually do much to win. - For all those wondering why MD took so many 3s last year and didn't play inside, this game is for you. Against anyone with effective interior D, MD does not have the lift to be effective inside. He tries, but he's going to get blocked and stripped constantly, and while he's big, he's not Mike Sweetney. He helped as he could by hitting his FTs and outside shots and kudos for him and Pat for putting him in a position to contribute .. mostly as spacing and shooting threes.
- However, he drives me freaking nuts in that he apparently cannot sense a double team until 5-10 seconds after four hands are already in his face. No one on the team came, but Marcus is a special level of incompetence here. The double comes. Marcus waits. He dribbles two or three times into the double team. He waits. Pivots. Recognizes the double team and looks for a teammate. Identifies wrong one and would turn it over on a steal but it's a shot clock violation.
- Thank god for Jessie Govan's jumper.
- I do not get the assault on Mosely. Six turnovers is nothing for a Hoya PG, and despite that, he was our third most efficient player. We obviously don't want six turnovers from our PG, but I did like his added aggression, his improved outside shot and his big plays down the stretch. He's not the long term answer at PG but he's our best guard.
- I think Pat had a strong half time talk. I saw a lot of bad effort late in the first half. Dogging it on D, getting out rebounded, lazy cuts, etc. It looked like the team was punting, but they came back and fought in the second half. Oh, they are unskilled as all heck, but they did fight even if it wasn't always the right move.
- I know Pat wants to have freedom for his guards, but Mulmore and Dickerson need to stop the drives to nowhere. As much as Mosely's turnovers and Blair's quick trigger bothered me, the Mulmore special of a layup attempt that never had a chance at all is so much worse.
- There were times when the team devolved into utter crap, but then there were some really nice offensive sequences. We didn't score, mostly, but at times we ran an offense. And at times we just ran.
- There were a ton of good under the basket plays and we probably scored 8-10 points off those.
[/font][/b]. Who cares? [li]SJU is a good defensive team, but I'd rather play a strong defensive team that can't score than vice versa. We have no chance of stopping an offensively talented team and eventually we will shoot ourselves in the foot. [/li] [/ul][/quote]Who cares about this ish. The Hoyas fought hard and didn't give and then won DELETED - NO PROFANITY. Who cares? [/quote] Where did this come from? I enjoy reading SF's recaps, usually helps me see the game from different perspectives and pick up on things I missed. Should this board be nothing more than a cheerleading forum when the Hoyas win? What is the point of that, why would I want to read the same congratulatory, thoughtless BS over and over? |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 10, 2018 11:42:52 GMT -5
NCAA Tournament by Year 3, with all the advantages that St. John's has, is not unreasonable. Mullin stinks as a coach. What decade are you in? What are all these advantages for St. John's? I'm not convinced on Mullin, but I will saw they played very good defense yesterday. The offense is a mess, but much like ours, there's not a lot of talent. I honestly don't watch enough SJU to really have a good feel on Mullin, but I somehow doubt you've watched all their games, either. I agree. While I have my doubts that Mullin is a good coach, St. John's really has no advantages - I mean, that's part of the reason they hired Mullin in the first place. St. John's has been struggling for years, and if the job opens up, they aren't going to have a parade of quality coaches waiting in line to take the position. If Mullin's team goes something like 2-14 or worse in the Big East, I think he will face mounting pressure, but given Lovett's injury and having some recruits, it's hard to see any scenario where he doesn't get one more year. |
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Post by williambraskyiii on Jan 10, 2018 11:48:50 GMT -5
I honestly don't know how anyone can be anything other than very pleased with last night's win - and in fact with the way this season has gone so far. Last year's team, with 2 players who are probably better than anyone on this year's roster, lost 8 of its last 9 games, with 3 of those losses coming to DePaul and St. John's! This team is veryclose to being 14-2 with 2 very solid wins over Cuse and Butler. OK, so those didn't happen (horseshoes and hand grenades, et al) but they showed they can play with teams that will be very much in the mix for the NCAA tourney. As far as I'm concerned if this season continues on its current trajectory, it will be an unqualified success. For the most part I like what I see from Coach Ewing, and his demeanor on the sideline is actually pretty wonderful - and a great change from what we had become accustomed to over the past 5 seasons. I'm all in. I really like watching this team, even in ugly games like last night. The Hoyas and their coach are getting better. It's been pretty fun to watch thus far. This accurately reflects my sentiments on Big Pat and the team so far this season. Thanks for putting it into words. |
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2018 11:49:14 GMT -5
I honestly don't know how anyone can be anything other than very pleased with last night's win - and in fact with the way this season has gone so far. Last year's team, with 2 players who are probably better than anyone on this year's roster, lost 8 of its last 9 games, with 3 of those losses coming to DePaul and St. John's! This team is veryclose to being 14-2 with 2 very solid wins over Cuse and Butler. OK, so those didn't happen (horseshoes and hand grenades, et al) but they showed they can play with teams that will be very much in the mix for the NCAA tourney. As far as I'm concerned if this season continues on its current trajectory, it will be an unqualified success. For the most part I like what I see from Coach Ewing, and his demeanor on the sideline is actually pretty wonderful - and a great change from what we had become accustomed to over the past 5 seasons. I'm all in. I really like watching this team, even in ugly games like last night. The Hoyas and their coach are getting better. It's been pretty fun to watch thus far. Ewing cannot and should not be written off this year, no matter what happens the rest of the season. If, over the next 3-5 years, he is unable to upgrade the talent level--which all of us agree needs improvement--or, he gets the upgrade and the results don't improve, it is fair to blame the coach. Coach is learning growing with his team. |
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 10, 2018 12:06:29 GMT -5
I honestly don't know how anyone can be anything other than very pleased with last night's win - and in fact with the way this season has gone so far. Last year's team, with 2 players who are probably better than anyone on this year's roster, lost 8 of its last 9 games, with 3 of those losses coming to DePaul and St. John's! This team is veryclose to being 14-2 with 2 very solid wins over Cuse and Butler. OK, so those didn't happen (horseshoes and hand grenades, et al) but they showed they can play with teams that will be very much in the mix for the NCAA tourney. As far as I'm concerned if this season continues on its current trajectory, it will be an unqualified success. For the most part I like what I see from Coach Ewing, and his demeanor on the sideline is actually pretty wonderful - and a great change from what we had become accustomed to over the past 5 seasons. I'm all in. I really like watching this team, even in ugly games like last night. The Hoyas and their coach are getting better. It's been pretty fun to watch thus far. Mostly agree, but man, that Creighton game sits with me. That was the worst home loss I’ve ever seen outside of that game when Pitt murdered us, and they were way better. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 10, 2018 12:13:32 GMT -5
I honestly don't know how anyone can be anything other than very pleased with last night's win - and in fact with the way this season has gone so far. Last year's team, with 2 players who are probably better than anyone on this year's roster, lost 8 of its last 9 games, with 3 of those losses coming to DePaul and St. John's! This team is veryclose to being 14-2 with 2 very solid wins over Cuse and Butler. OK, so those didn't happen (horseshoes and hand grenades, et al) but they showed they can play with teams that will be very much in the mix for the NCAA tourney. As far as I'm concerned if this season continues on its current trajectory, it will be an unqualified success. For the most part I like what I see from Coach Ewing, and his demeanor on the sideline is actually pretty wonderful - and a great change from what we had become accustomed to over the past 5 seasons. I'm all in. I really like watching this team, even in ugly games like last night. The Hoyas and their coach are getting better. It's been pretty fun to watch thus far. Mostly agree, but man, that Creighton game sits with me. That was the worst home loss I’ve ever seen outside of that game when Pitt murdered us, and they were way better. We were better that season too - wasn't it the year we got a 2 seed? Bottom line is this Hoyas team simply isn't very good. If you use that as the baseline for evaluation, I think people should be OK about the way the season is going. And Creighton is pretty good. They ran away from Butler last night |
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 10, 2018 12:15:55 GMT -5
NCAA Tournament by Year 3, with all the advantages that St. John's has, is not unreasonable. Mullin stinks as a coach. That's unrealistic considering what he inherited and factoring in he's played 10 of 17 games without his second best player... I agree that St John's is better now than when they were two years ago, and even a better team than last year, at least when they have Lovett. I am not sure if Mullin is a good coach or not, but I don't think he stinks by any sense. Rebuilding a program is really hard and keeping your best players healthy and available is critical to any success in such a tough conference. It will become much tougher if Mullin has a 3 -5 win season in the Big East this year. Some of those 4 star recruits, or returning players, might jump ship and then he he is left with starting over again. No one seems to have any patience in college basketball these days and a disappointing year this season is going to make it difficult on St John's moving forward. That is why I think finding the right recruits is critical for Georgetown in these first few years. If you miss on a few guys that you planned on playing big roles in your program then you can quickly lose momentum. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2018 12:17:23 GMT -5
I honestly don't know how anyone can be anything other than very pleased with last night's win - and in fact with the way this season has gone so far. Last year's team, with 2 players who are probably better than anyone on this year's roster, lost 8 of its last 9 games, with 3 of those losses coming to DePaul and St. John's! This team is veryclose to being 14-2 with 2 very solid wins over Cuse and Butler. OK, so those didn't happen (horseshoes and hand grenades, et al) but they showed they can play with teams that will be very much in the mix for the NCAA tourney. As far as I'm concerned if this season continues on its current trajectory, it will be an unqualified success. For the most part I like what I see from Coach Ewing, and his demeanor on the sideline is actually pretty wonderful - and a great change from what we had become accustomed to over the past 5 seasons. I'm all in. I really like watching this team, even in ugly games like last night. The Hoyas and their coach are getting better. It's been pretty fun to watch thus far. Agreed that so far this season has met, and even slightly exceeded, expectations. But Syracuse will be nowhere near the NCAA bubble this season. Butler may not either, too early to tell. |
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bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Jan 10, 2018 12:18:01 GMT -5
Coming back the day after this win, I'm even more pleased by what we did last night. Even though it has come against the bottom of the league, Ewing has gone 2-1 in his first three road games in league play. Not bad. I also thought we did make key plays to actually win the game. Govan's huge shot, key turnovers on defense, the great defense on the final possession to keep St. John's from getting a good shot. These were all examples of our team winning the game, not merely being given the game.
Looking ahead, the teams I have been watching all season (in addition to us) are Marquette, Providence, Sf. John's and DePaul. Going into the season, I basically hoped for an 8th-place finish. I wanted to stay ahead of DePaul and manage to get past one other team. Five games in, I'm impressed that we got past DePaul and St. John's on the road. The absolute ceiling for this team, in my view, is 6th, which is where I would slot Marquette right now. If we somehow got to 6th, I would argue that Ewing should be the BE coach or the year. Watching last night, I think we could at least make it interesting. I'm excited to see if we can keep moving up the standings. From what I've seen, we aren't that far off from any of those teams. We will struggle, though, to beat the teams above Marquette.
Going forward, I do want to see the more aggressive Jagan. Yes, he turns it over a lot, but he's basically the only guard who can score. He had a really good feel for the basket. I don't have a problem with getting Marcus and Govan looks outside. In fact, I liked most of the looks Derrickson took last night. I keep noticing subtle changes to the game plan to adapt over the course of the year.
Seton Hall should be fun this weekend. I actually think we match up decently with them. They're better, obviously, but I like our chances to keep it close.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 10, 2018 12:24:08 GMT -5
Plus/minus for last night's game, as calculated from the play-by-play posted at guhoyas.com:
Pickett +10, Mulmore +6, Govan +5, Mosely +5, Derrickson even, Walker even, Dickerson -1, Blair -3, Johnson -7, Hines DNP/coach's decision, Muresan DNP/coach's decision.
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