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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 26, 2018 9:26:41 GMT -5
Oh man. If the Waters recruitment turns up in this, prepare for this thread to go gliding. yikes |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Feb 26, 2018 9:32:46 GMT -5
Pete Thamel is all over this whole story. Part of me wonders if he's working hard to expose everyone's garbage so that his alma mater in lower Canada doesn't look so bad by comparison... Apparently, for every tweet, he gets either a gold star or a scratch and sniff. If he collects twenty, he gets a new coloring book. |
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 26, 2018 9:33:12 GMT -5
I shouldn't cast any stones. Check my post count. I've torpedoed more than my share of threads. Glide can drive me nuts at times but I do know he's die-hard so I have to respect that (in my more rational moments anyway). I just saw LSU/Waters and had a flashback. Personally, I'm hoping the entirety of the BE comes out clean in all of this and, while it may be entirely naïve, I feel like there's a good chance that it will. It would be difficult to avoid discussing it if top programs in other major conferences are implicated and the whole of the BE is not. We do have a Coach K disciple so that has me a bit worried. He’s a great guy actually. I don’t forget that as I read his posts. He feels JT3 was wronged and that Waters was the answer. No doubt he would have been the point guard he wants. And we all want really. Sometimes less is more — that is my advice to him. The only program that concerns me is Seton Hall. Willard really did Everything he could to get him. Also I wonder whether his support is eroding. So any lapse could be used against him. I like him, so I hope the Hall does well, not at our expense of course. I would love for Coach K to surface in reports. Sick of people hold him up as the ideal coach. Yeah bro, one thing about JT3 I've noticed in games if he didn't noticed whatever it was at first he'd always go back and fix it so that'd be better the next time. Is why I say he was wronged especially after he recruited exactly what he needed for this season, a true point guard in Waters. JT3 maybe didn't get it at first, but he finally did, but our fans couldn't wait or shall I say, "ran out of patience." I was saying to myself no, no, no, ya'll we/he finally got it and got him as in Waters. No, no, no, don't fire him at least give him one season with the game changing Waters. I felt this season would be totally different with Waters at the helm. He was and is an extension of a coach on the court. I just wished that our fan base knew a lot more about point guard play and how critical and important in our coaches and team's success. You think Jessie and Derrickson are scoring now? Hmph Waters is a point guard who makes his whole team better just showing he has confidence and trust in his teammates to do the right thing. During crucial moments you wouldn't have to worry about a Blair on the ball and making bad decisions in crunch time. Waters was/is one to wind the clock down to .8 or .7 seconds and get the basket, or kick it back out or to make the jump shot as already done many times for LSU and high school. That's cold blooded. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 26, 2018 9:33:19 GMT -5
Jeff Goodman was too busy washing Chris Mack's car and polishing his shoes to cultivate a NCAA or FBI source.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 26, 2018 9:42:16 GMT -5
If you're making loads of money off of these young people please pay them. Stipend?
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Feb 26, 2018 12:11:39 GMT -5
If you're making loads of money off of these young people please pay them. Stipend? Most not all major college programs are paying a stipend. stipend from around $1500 on low end to upwards to around $5000. some schools to all scholarship players others to select sports. No idea what the situation in the BE is or on the Hilltop. I do get a little sick of the talking media heads especially those on the Rodeao Clown Network out of Bristol who talk about the hundred of Millions to Billions that the NCAA brings in without ever putting into context how that money is distributed back to the 365 odd schools where the average return per school probably doesn't cover the coaching staff salaries at Big 5 schools. No one is getting rich from the NCAA revenue stream. College football a different story. But NCAA controls little if any of those dollars. |
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Feb 26, 2018 13:01:36 GMT -5
If you're making loads of money off of these young people please pay them. Stipend? Most not all major college programs are paying a stipend. stipend from around $1500 on low end to upwards to around $5000. some schools to all scholarship players others to select sports. No idea what the situation in the BE is or on the Hilltop. I do get a little sick of the talking media heads especially those on the Rodeao Clown Network out of Bristol who talk about the hundred of Millions to Billions that the NCAA brings in without ever putting into context how that money is distributed back to the 365 odd schools where the average return per school probably doesn't cover the coaching staff salaries at Big 5 schools. No one is getting rich from the NCAA revenue stream. College football a different story. But NCAA controls little if any of those dollars. Can you point to examples of stipends in place? Last I heard some colleges were looking at it, but I've not heard of any actually doing it. Likely I'm looking in the wrong places. Many work experience roles in college get some stipend. I was editor on college paper and got some sort of stipend for that, but also was paid for articles. In grad school at GU I was treasurer of student association for the grad program and we had a budget, but no stipend. The stipend model is a good start for scholarship players. |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 26, 2018 13:07:20 GMT -5
Most not all major college programs are paying a stipend. stipend from around $1500 on low end to upwards to around $5000. some schools to all scholarship players others to select sports. No idea what the situation in the BE is or on the Hilltop. I do get a little sick of the talking media heads especially those on the Rodeao Clown Network out of Bristol who talk about the hundred of Millions to Billions that the NCAA brings in without ever putting into context how that money is distributed back to the 365 odd schools where the average return per school probably doesn't cover the coaching staff salaries at Big 5 schools. No one is getting rich from the NCAA revenue stream. College football a different story. But NCAA controls little if any of those dollars. Can you point to examples of stipends in place? Last I heard some colleges were looking at it, but I've not heard of any actually doing it. Likely I'm looking in the wrong places. Many work experience roles in college get some stipend. I was editor on college paper and got some sort of stipend for that, but also was paid for articles. In grad school at GU I was treasurer of student association for the grad program and we had a budget, but no stipend. The stipend model is a good start for scholarship players. Details some stipends paid by Kansas ($3644 per full scholarship), Mizzou ($4290), Missouri State ($4034 for mens/womens basketball) from 2016 www.kansascity.com/sports/college/article86062792.htmlBig East, Georgetown ($2600) in 2015 Seton Hall is not the only Big East school to make their cost-of-attendance numbers public. According to the Providence Journal, Providence's stipends for men's and women's basketball and ice hockey total up to $1,800 per year. According to the Washington Post, Georgetown's stipends estimates at about $2,600. www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2015/8/27/9212547/how-seton-hall-and-the-big-east-is-setting-the-pay-for-play-precedent |
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Feb 26, 2018 13:37:55 GMT -5
If you plan to pay a 5 star recruit the same stipend as a benchwarmer, will it even work?
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 26, 2018 14:12:18 GMT -5
If you plan to pay a 5 star recruit the same stipend as a benchwarmer, will it even work? This really goes to the heart of the issue, but commentators, media, etc. frequently don't address it. People say "pay the players," but the problem is there simply isn't a market for paying most of the players. Rather, there are MAYBE 50 or so players each year that the shoe companies and agents go bonkers for, and then they ignore everybody else. Let's do the math. 351 Division I teams, representing 4,563 players on scholarship (potentially.) But, let's pair that down further, and go with ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Big East, SEC, Pac 12, and AAC. Those 7 divisions have 87 teams, so potentially 1,131 scholarship players. I am in no way denigrating most of these players, but in a total free market where money goes directly to players based on supply/demand, it would be shocking if even 130 of those players got any sort of real money. Most of the players are worth (in pure monetary terms) basically $0 because they have no NBA potential. So how do you possibly regulate giving money to students? Either you allow a system where the top guys get paid massive amounts of money and most of the other players get nothing (essentially, legalizing what is in place now), or you come with some sort of sharing process, in which the top guys aren't getting their value, and it will just continue to lead to incentive to funnel money to the top guys. Unless you truly allowed a system where the top guys could get tons of money, legalizing what is basically going on in the shadows now, the incentives for corruption remain. I don't think there should be a system like that in college sports, but I think when people say "pay the players" it's often used as a panacea for the issue, when in reality, it's a lot more complex. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 26, 2018 14:13:09 GMT -5
If you plan to pay a 5 star recruit the same stipend as a benchwarmer, will it even work? What do you do when the 5-star turns out to be a bust? Ask for your money back??😎 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 14:49:41 GMT -5
If you plan to pay a 5 star recruit the same stipend as a benchwarmer, will it even work? What do you do when the 5-star turns out to be a bust? Ask for your money back??😎 Did the Browns ever get their money back from Johnny Manziel? |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 26, 2018 14:59:43 GMT -5
What do you do when the 5-star turns out to be a bust? Ask for your money back??😎 Did the Browns ever get their money back from Johnny Manziel? Well he did have a contract. Along those lines - would recruits get contracts regarding differing payments? Do they get the same amount every year? Does it increase or decrease depending on their play? Are we talking about bidding wars between schools? Stipends are at least something, but will never be enough to tame the seedy underbelly of recruiting. But allowing unfettered salaries for college players will just make the booster-rich schools get all of the top players. |
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 26, 2018 15:19:37 GMT -5
Funny how this discussion mirrors many discussions going on in this country right now. Instead of addressing the root cause of the problem we come up with these elaborate, and basically useless, schemes to ameliorate the consequences of the problem. Gun deaths, health care, income inequality, climate change, etc. Our collective inability to confront the forces creating these problems leaves us feeling powerless and our political leadership looking foolish.
The answer to the bribery scandal is simple. Any student who accepts an athletic scholarship has to agree to: 1) Matriculate for at least 3 years (with a hardship exemption that can be used only for a real hardship); 2) Maintain a reasonable GPI (there are probably NCAA standards already); 3) Accept a stipend from the University that is based on family income and that reflects minimum living expenses in the area surrounding the campus. A maximum stipend can be set by the NCAA. Meanwhile the NBA has to agree to create a minor league system similar to that of baseball. Give high school kids a choice to either go to college and forgo a professional career for 3 years or become a professional basketball player, accept a bonus, play in the minor leagues, and get paid. STOP USING (AND CORRUPTING) COLLEGES AS NBA MINOR LEAGUES. Any college that is found to have violated this rule gets a 5 years death sentence and has wins and championships earned by the violator expunged.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 26, 2018 15:30:52 GMT -5
I'm all-in for rethinking the economics of college sports.
But the willingness of what I'll call "establishment" NCAA hoops journalists--or maybe a better term is "access journalists (guys like Parrish and DeCourcy and especially Goodman)--to take news about disgusting behavior by Sean Miller and turn it into another Mark Emmert pile-on without getting ANY quotes from all of the coaches whose phone numbers theses guys have is really something.
I mean Chris Mack was Sean Miller's LEAD ASSISTANT and as we all know is EXTREMELY CLOSE with Jeff Goodman, but a quick Google search turns up exactly ZERO news stories in which Mack is asked about the Miller wiretap. How many dozens of texts do you think Goodman and Mack have exchanged since this news broke Friday night? The fact that they current system isn't working and is exploitative and that the NCAA has made lots of mistakes does absolutely nothing to absolve cheating head coaches and the access journalists who are all too willing to enable them or avoid asking the hard questions.
This view obviously comes from a pro-Gtown bias wherein I have every reason to believe that JTIII was running a clean house and for most of his time still competing at the highest level with demonstrably dirty programs run by Pitino, Boeheim, and Calhoun. Maybe I'm naive about the Hoyas. But cheating coaches are not some kind of freedom-fighting noble hero just trying to get these poor kids what they deserve. These guys are in it for their own glory and to line their own pockets. And in the process they have victimized those coaches and schools who have tried doing things the right way, only to come up short in the results department because of their integrity. None of that is about Mark Emmert, and those coaches who have selfishly taken the shortcut for glory and honor should be the very first ones turned out on the street before anything else about amateurism is changed.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Feb 26, 2018 15:32:42 GMT -5
I am not arguing against a stipend...
....but what is Gtown cost for tuition and room and board about 70k per?
280k over 4 years seems like a pretty nice stipend to me...
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 26, 2018 15:45:18 GMT -5
I am not arguing against a stipend... ....but what is Gtown cost for tuition and room and board about 70k per? 280k over 4 years seems like a pretty nice stipend to me... That's peanuts compared to the market value of a 5-star recruit. Not to mention you can't turn around and sell your admission slot for cash to pay the family's bills. |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 26, 2018 16:06:11 GMT -5
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 26, 2018 16:08:24 GMT -5
Funny how this discussion mirrors many discussions going on in this country right now. Instead of addressing the root cause of the problem we come up with these elaborate, and basically useless, schemes to ameliorate the consequences of the problem. Gun deaths, health care, income inequality, climate change, etc. Our collective inability to confront the forces creating these problems leaves us feeling powerless and our political leadership looking foolish. The answer to the bribery scandal is simple. Any student who accepts an athletic scholarship has to agree to: 1) Matriculate for at least 3 years (with a hardship exemption that can be used only for a real hardship); 2) Maintain a reasonable GPI (there are probably NCAA standards already); 3) Accept a stipend from the University that is based on family income and that reflects minimum living expenses in the area surrounding the campus. A maximum stipend can be set by the NCAA. Meanwhile the NBA has to agree to create a minor league system similar to that of baseball. Give high school kids a choice to either go to college and forgo a professional career for 3 years or become a professional basketball player, accept a bonus, play in the minor leagues, and get paid. STOP USING (AND CORRUPTING) COLLEGES AS NBA MINOR LEAGUES. Any college that is found to have violated this rule gets a 5 years death sentence and has wins and championships earned by the violator expunged. I agree with the comprehensive approach you outlined. Easiest first step, get rid of the one and done rule. Go back to allowing HS kids to be drafted into the NBA and now the NBA G-league. That small change alone will take out quite a few of the big name recruits that seem to be driving this pay for play behavior and have no interest in being a student athlete. |
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 26, 2018 16:29:30 GMT -5
If you plan to pay a 5 star recruit the same stipend as a benchwarmer, will it even work? This really goes to the heart of the issue, but commentators, media, etc. frequently don't address it. People say "pay the players," but the problem is there simply isn't a market for paying most of the players. Rather, there are MAYBE 50 or so players each year that the shoe companies and agents go bonkers for, and then they ignore everybody else. Let's do the math. 351 Division I teams, representing 4,563 players on scholarship (potentially.) But, let's pair that down further, and go with ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Big East, SEC, Pac 12, and AAC. Those 7 divisions have 87 teams, so potentially 1,131 scholarship players. I am in no way denigrating most of these players, but in a total free market where money goes directly to players based on supply/demand, it would be shocking if even 130 of those players got any sort of real money. Most of the players are worth (in pure monetary terms) basically $0 because they have no NBA potential. So how do you possibly regulate giving money to students? Either you allow a system where the top guys get paid massive amounts of money and most of the other players get nothing (essentially, legalizing what is in place now), or you come with some sort of sharing process, in which the top guys aren't getting their value, and it will just continue to lead to incentive to funnel money to the top guys. Unless you truly allowed a system where the top guys could get tons of money, legalizing what is basically going on in the shadows now, the incentives for corruption remain. I don't think there should be a system like that in college sports, but I think when people say "pay the players" it's often used as a panacea for the issue, when in reality, it's a lot more complex. Does title 9 mean that you have to pay everyone equally? |
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