RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Jan 29, 2020 16:18:49 GMT -5
It is disconcerting that we are still waiting for things to improve. That being written, as hard as this may be for some on this board to believe, Georgetown basketball may never again approach the level of excellence to which we were accustomed, and indeed by which we were spoiled, in the 1980s and 1990s. This is as much a function of how the college basketball universe has been altered by the one-and-dones and the recruiting boundaries which are routinely abused by "rogue" programs (which shall remain nameless). Georgetown is not likely to follow the path of least resistance, and dive into the sludge-filled end of the recruiting pool. Maybe we, as program supporters, have to accept that the Hoya basketball program may not be well suited to continued participation at the highest level of competition. No personal offense intended, but I hate this line of thinking and strongly believe it to be a loser's mentality. I don't think that many here are demanding that we return to where we were in the Mid-1980s--in fact many of our Gen X, Millenial, and Gen Z fans don't even have any recollection of that era. The bigger issue is, for several years now we have not even been a factor in our own conference. Sure, there are plenty of Will Wade's and Sean Miller's and many other shady coaches out there, but those aren't the teams that have been slapping us around. It's been schools like Villanova and Seton Hall and Xavier. Prior to the New Big East forming it would have been inconceivable that we'd be perceived as a weaker program than those schools, or Marquette, or Creighton. We had so much more clout than the other "basketball only" schools that we were expected to carry the league, and hopefully schools like PC and SHU who were almost indistinguishable from A-10 schools wouldn't make us look too bad. Instead, we've been looking up at them in the standings for years now. But there is nothing that gives any of our conference-mates an innate leg up on us, and in fact WE should have had a leg up because the Georgetown brand name still carried more value than theirs. We've probably squandered most of that equity by now, but there's still no reason that we shouldn't be as good as or better than most of our conference-mates every single season. Schools like Villanova and UVA in recent years have shown that it's completely possible to win at the highest level without one-and-done recruits or dropping bags of cash for 5 star players. It's exactly the model we should be embracing, and the only reason they've done it and we haven't is because their programs have better leadership. That being said, we're only 2.5 seasons into Ewing's tenure, which is too early to seriously discuss going in another direction. If he wants it he'll get at least a full 4 year cycle, which is customary unless you're really abysmal, which we haven't been. I disagree with those who say he'll never be shown the door--maybe not technically, but if the environment gets toxic enough like it did late in the JTIII era, he's not going to want to stick around and will step down like Drexler and Mullin before him. Maybe head back to the NBA to be a special assistant of some kind and give up the head coaching dream. But though it's too soon to seriously think about firing him, some changes need to be made. If this were a football team, we'd be at the "fire the offensive coordinator" phase. There are some obvious deficiencies on the court to be addressed, and though he (and Orr, really) have shown a good eye for under-recruited talent, there are serious deficiencies in our recruiting and we should not be as heavily dependent as we are on late signees and kids outside the Top 200. We need a long, hard look in the mirror and need to learn from what has and hasn't worked. If there are not some significant changes in the off-season (barring a miraculous turn around this season), that to me will be a very bad sign that there's no real accountability in the athletic department other than to the patriarch himself, which means we're probably heading down a pretty dark and difficult path.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 29, 2020 17:56:45 GMT -5
To rub salt in the wounds, watched URI last night. Antwan Walker scored 13 as they slowly blend him into their lineup, a lineup that is probably more likely to see NCAA tournament games than ours.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 29, 2020 18:01:30 GMT -5
I think it's interesting that a lot of people's concerns with Ewing seem to be his recruiting. If you say he is not recruiting quality people I think that is a bit unfair. That aside he is recruiting at a level that we should be at the very least a tournament team and top half Big East team. I think overall he has done a good job of recruiting. He has had a few head scratching decisions but the overall level of the players has been fine. There are a lot of coaches that could've taken the roster at the beginning of the year and been a very good team. He just is not one of them.
Ewing's problem is he is stuck in the past. He has clearly not adapted to the modern game....hmmm does that sound familiar. I do not think his coaching style fits with most college players. His schemes and philosophies are not good and that is my biggest problem with him. His quote about we are going to do our thing and it's up to the other team to stop it was quite an indictment on his attitude toward the game. If coaching was simply about telling your players what to do regardless of opponent it would be much easier to do. Every opponent and game is different. It's up to the coach to make the adjustment to put his team in the best position to win. I question anyone who thinks Ewing has been doing that. I don't see him changing his way which is ultimately why I have little faith in him taking us back anywhere near the peak. Can he go through another few recruiting cycles and get us back to the tournament? Absolutely. Most nights though we are at a disadvantage in the coaching department and that is not the trait of a consistently good program. He can't recruit at a level where he can get away with that unlike a few blue bloods.
All that being said he will and should get next year to show dramatic improvement. 4 years is enough of a sample size to show marked improvement and competence. My fear is that those in charge will not care what he shows although maybe the revenue hit will wake them up. That is my hope at least.
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Post by wrestlemania on Jan 29, 2020 18:05:19 GMT -5
The season has turned into a little bit of a dumpster fire, due to the manpower shortages engendered by the transfers of Akinjo/LeBlanc/Alexander/Gardner. We can debate how much of that lies at the feet of the coaching staff, including Patrick Ewing. However, I don't know how anyone can evaluate the coaching job presently being done, because there isn't any depth to this team. It's easy to criticize the coaching strategy when Sean McDermott is left open for uncontested three after uncontested three...but what alternatives did Ewing have when Pickett was unable to keep McDermott in check? It's also easy to assume that this team will continue to reside at the bottom of the Big East Conference standings next season. Things can also change dramatically if the incoming recruits can step right in and contribute in a positive manner. It is disconcerting that we are still waiting for things to improve. That being written, as hard as this may be for some on this board to believe, Georgetown basketball may never again approach the level of excellence to which we were accustomed, and indeed by which we were spoiled, in the 1980s and 1990s. This is as much a function of how the college basketball universe has been altered by the one-and-dones and the recruiting boundaries which are routinely abused by "rogue" programs (which shall remain nameless). Georgetown is not likely to follow the path of least resistance, and dive into the sludge-filled end of the recruiting pool. Maybe we, as program supporters, have to accept that the Hoya basketball program may not be well suited to continued participation at the highest level of competition. The first paragraph I mostly agree, but the second paragraph is way off base. Let's put aside Nova, is Seton Hall or Providence (both with 5 straight NCAAs very recently), Xavier (15 appearances in 17 years), Butler (heading toward 11 appearances out of 14 years) somehow better positioned for success than Georgetown? Come on, this cannot be a serious question? GU has the most fertile recruiting base in its backyard, decent facilities, a good conference, a large budget, and is a world class university. Being a top 50 program, and making the NCAAs every year should be the floor, not the ceiling. Any other attitude is just enabling mediocrity for no good reason. What holds GU back is painfully obvious - it allows its past to continue to influence its decision making. As soon as the university makes a clean break and conducts a legitimate forward-looking coaching search it will find itself back in business very quickly. There are so many talented coaches that would love to coach this Georgetown program if it moves on from the influence of its past. The program would be smart to take what the past has allowed the program to gain - a solid conference membership, decent facilities, a notable brand/reputation, a workable high major budget - and build upon it rather than waste it. Game, set and match -- you've identified exactly what the problem is. That said, I still lean towards NJ's view that restoring the program may be more difficult than people realize.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 29, 2020 18:44:05 GMT -5
Our outlook for next season could dramatically improve if Pat can reel in some quality 5th years, JUCOs, transfers and de-commitments. If not, we are looking at 9th to 11th place in the league. We have to replace Allen, Yurtseven and Mosely, all seasoned players.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 29, 2020 23:11:38 GMT -5
Trey Dickerson with some very interesting answers to questions on twitter today.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 30, 2020 0:20:06 GMT -5
After last night’s game, I had to do some reflection on where we are and how we got here. It is just a very unfortunate turn of events with those guys leaving the team-for whatever reason. Our guys are playing exceptionally well, short handed as they are. This is an unforgiving conference. It beats you up and beat you down no matter what you as a team is going through. We just have to struggle through this. Better days are ahead.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 30, 2020 0:31:34 GMT -5
After last night’s game, I had to do some reflection on where we are and how we got here. It is just a very unfortunate turn of events with those guys leaving the team-for whatever reason. Our guys are playing exceptionally well, short handed as they are. This is an unforgiving conference. It beats you up and beat you down no matter what you as a team is going through. We just have to struggle through this. Better days are ahead. There is nothing “exceptionally well” about our defense.
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Post by cgallstar02 on Jan 30, 2020 1:22:28 GMT -5
Trey Dickerson with some very interesting answers to questions on twitter today. Looking at the Big East and each teams leading scorer from the guard/wing position Seton Hall - Myles Powell FGA 17.4 FG% 41.4 Villanova - Colin Gillespie FGA 11.4 FG% 41.7 Butler - Kamar Baldwin FGA 14.4 FG% 41.6 Creighton - Tyshon Alexander FGA 11.7 FG% 42.7 Marquette - Marcus Howard FGA 20.2 FG% 41.5 Providence - Alpha Diallo FGA 12.3 FG% 39.4 Xavier - Naji Marshall FGA 13.9 FG% 43.7 Georgetown - Mac McClung FGA 13.7 FG% 39.8 St Johns - Mustapha Heron FGA 11.1 FG% 39.3 Depaul - Charlie Moore FGA 13.9 FG% 38.1 Looking at that we can see a few things. Charlie Moore shoots the lowest percentage while Naji Marshall shoots the highest. Still, from lowest to highest there's only a 5.6% differential. Naji Marshall having the highest percentage shouldn't be a surprise. He's the biggest player of the bunch and the only legit SF. Meaning he's likely playing closer to the basket and taking higher percentage shots. Take away him and Tyshon and you have every guy within 3.6% of each other. Mac currently ranks 6th among those players in FGA and 7th in FG% Another observation, every one of the above players is an upper classman with the exception of one... Mac McClung. Does Mac McClung have to be better? Absolutely! Is he taking some really bad shots every game. Definitely! Still, as you can see above, his numbers are on par with what we're seeing from every other team in the Big East's leading scorer from the perimeter. Ask yourself, why are all these guys shooting percentages so low? Do you think Georgetown's defensive game plan against Seton Hall revolves around stopping Myles Powell or Myles Cale? Are other teams game planning to stop Mac and Yurt or Jagan and Pickett? Every team has a Jagan Mosely... a defensive stopper. Who do you think is guarding Mac McClung every game? The other team's best perimeter defender that's who. Against Xavier for instance, he had the 6'7 strong and athletic Naji Marshall guarding him much of the game. That's a tough matchup for anyone, let alone someone giving up 5 inches and 40 pounds to someone that can still matchup with you athletically. What happens if Mac and Yurt become pass first players? Who becomes the scorers? We got to see what happens in the Providence game when Mac didn't play and Providence essentially doubled Yurt before he even got the ball, limiting him to 8 shots. Allen and Blair essentially shared the Mac role. They shot 3-15 and 3-14 respectively. Where was this magical ball movement with all these ball movers, no ball stopper in Mac, and Yurt barely touching the ball? I would've thought they'd score 100! Every possession is not going to result in good open shots. Someone has to go one on one and create and make tough shots. Mac is the best on the team at it, hence he is going to take and miss more shots than just about everyone else on the team. Give that role to someone else on the current team and the results would be far, far worse. Again, he has to be better with his shot selection. Has to do a better job of finding teammates when they're open. But lets not pretend that there's a better option on the team to do what he does. Let's not pretend that his numbers aren't in line with the Big East's top scoring perimeter guys, while being the lone underclassman of the bunch. And for the record, both Mac and Yurt have each taken 20 or more shots only twice a piece this season. Both against OK State, Mac against SH, and Yurt against Samford.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 30, 2020 4:25:46 GMT -5
This team is sorely missing a third reliable scoring option. A player you’d want to isolate against an opponent.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jan 30, 2020 7:51:13 GMT -5
Forget even Galen and Myron for a minute.
If James and Josh were both happy, embracing team concepts, and still playing this conference season, we’d very likely be .500+ in conference and a lock for a tourney bid. We’d all be praising Ewing and the trajectory of the program’s future prospects. We’d probably also have a top level prospect from Gonzaga committed for next season.
Unfortunately, we had a major personnel crisis this fall resulting in the loss of 2 absolutely critical pieces to the puzzle. This was an out of left field curveball that no coach could have predicted or planned against.
Ewing has regrouped to a certain extent, posting some quality out of conference wins and rallied the remaining troops. But we are simply undermanned and lack elite conference talent now. Mac and Yurt are nice players, but not enough to win on their own.
The departures of James and Josh realistically set us back 2 years minimum. Ewing is in the process of rebuilding again. He and his staff are hitting the recruiting trail hard. I believe he will bring in talent again to get us back dancing in the NCAAs with regularity.
But we were dealt a serious serious blow this fall that requires us to recalibrate expectations in the short term. Extremely painful. But I’ll give Ewing a reprieve on this set of circumstances and expect improvement next year and NCAA tournament results in 2022-23. Horrible to type that, but it’s my new norm.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 30, 2020 8:40:54 GMT -5
But I’ll give Ewing a reprieve on this set of circumstances and expect improvement next year and NCAA tournament results in 2022-23. Horrible to type that, but it’s my new norm. Three more years without the NCAA would make eight consecutive years out of the NCAA. The program isn't structured to absorb those kind of financial losses and reputational damage. JT III was out after missing the NCAA's two straight years, Craig Esherick was out after three. I question how patient the University would be with any coach in 2022 who's missed it five times.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 30, 2020 8:49:51 GMT -5
It's a Catch-22 as no one wants a Hoya legend to fail and yet it is impossible for anyone who is watching with their eyes and not their heart to definitively say that this coach is going to be able to succeed. There are too many questions still and regardless of which side you fall there is no basis for conclusions either way. Given extenuating circumstances--for which the coaching staff cannot completely be exonerated--I see no choice for the Administration(and the fans) other than to hold on and hope that their coaching search produced a quality coach and not just a tribute to a man whose accomplishments on the court do not translate to the bench.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 30, 2020 9:07:29 GMT -5
It's pretty hard for a team in a power 5 conference to miss the tourney five years in a row. Legend or not, Ewing is looking like an abject failure as a coach and manager and should pay the price sooner rather than later.
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Jan 30, 2020 9:13:28 GMT -5
I think it's interesting that a lot of people's concerns with Ewing seem to be his recruiting. If you say he is not recruiting quality people I think that is a bit unfair. That aside he is recruiting at a level that we should be at the very least a tournament team and top half Big East team. I think overall he has done a good job of recruiting. He has had a few head scratching decisions but the overall level of the players has been fine. There are a lot of coaches that could've taken the roster at the beginning of the year and been a very good team. He just is not one of them. Ewing's problem is he is stuck in the past. He has clearly not adapted to the modern game....hmmm does that sound familiar. I do not think his coaching style fits with most college players. His schemes and philosophies are not good and that is my biggest problem with him. His quote about we are going to do our thing and it's up to the other team to stop it was quite an indictment on his attitude toward the game. If coaching was simply about telling your players what to do regardless of opponent it would be much easier to do. Every opponent and game is different. It's up to the coach to make the adjustment to put his team in the best position to win. I question anyone who thinks Ewing has been doing that. I don't see him changing his way which is ultimately why I have little faith in him taking us back anywhere near the peak. Can he go through another few recruiting cycles and get us back to the tournament? Absolutely. Most nights though we are at a disadvantage in the coaching department and that is not the trait of a consistently good program. He can't recruit at a level where he can get away with that unlike a few blue bloods. All that being said he will and should get next year to show dramatic improvement. 4 years is enough of a sample size to show marked improvement and competence. My fear is that those in charge will not care what he shows although maybe the revenue hit will wake them up. That is my hope at least. Sad!
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 30, 2020 9:31:25 GMT -5
But I’ll give Ewing a reprieve on this set of circumstances and expect improvement next year and NCAA tournament results in 2022-23. Horrible to type that, but it’s my new norm. Three more years without the NCAA would make eight consecutive years out of the NCAA. The program isn't structured to absorb those kind of financial losses and reputational damage. JT III was out after missing the NCAA's two straight years, Craig Esherick was out after three. I question how patient the University would be with any coach in 2022 who's missed it five times. Agreed! Willard was on deaths door and got lucky otherwise he would have been out. My interest as a season ticket holder is definitely falling and of my group of 6 tickets divided between 3 of us, I could see the other two dropping out after this year. We have been together since '01. It is just hard to justify the cost & more importantly the time commitment to continually see a losing product. I bring a group of 80's hoyas fans to a game once a year as all are DC natives. We have been doing it for about 5 years. I think they have never witnessed a W.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 30, 2020 9:47:47 GMT -5
Three more years without the NCAA would make eight consecutive years out of the NCAA. The program isn't structured to absorb those kind of financial losses and reputational damage. JT III was out after missing the NCAA's two straight years, Craig Esherick was out after three. I question how patient the University would be with any coach in 2022 who's missed it five times. Agreed! Willard was on deaths door and got lucky otherwise he would have been out. My interest as a season ticket holder is definitely falling and of my group of 6 tickets divided between 3 of us, I could see the other two dropping out after this year. We have been together since '01. It is just hard to justify the cost & more importantly the time commitment to continually see a losing product. I bring a group of 80's hoyas fans to a game once a year as all are DC natives. We have been doing it for about 5 years. I think they have never witnessed a W. This is tragic and understandable. It has been happening since the last JT3 years with alumni I know. This is the real cost of the Administration not taking charge and protecting the program, all because he/they are scared of JT2. The hole keeps getting bigger and bigger.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 30, 2020 9:52:03 GMT -5
-I see no choice for the Administration(and the fans) other than to hold on and hope that their coaching search produced a quality coach and not just a tribute to a man whose accomplishments on the court do not translate to the bench. Which coaching search? My sarcasm meter is off this morning.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 30, 2020 9:53:33 GMT -5
Forget even Galen and Myron for a minute. If James and Josh were both happy, embracing team concepts, and still playing this conference season, we’d very likely be .500+ in conference and a lock for a tourney bid. We’d all be praising Ewing and the trajectory of the program’s future prospects. We’d probably also have a top level prospect from Gonzaga committed for next season. Unfortunately, we had a major personnel crisis this fall resulting in the loss of 2 absolutely critical pieces to the puzzle. This was an out of left field curveball that no coach could have predicted or planned against. Ewing has regrouped to a certain extent, posting some quality out of conference wins and rallied the remaining troops. But we are simply undermanned and lack elite conference talent now. Mac and Yurt are nice players, but not enough to win on their own. The departures of James and Josh realistically set us back 2 years minimum. Ewing is in the process of rebuilding again. He and his staff are hitting the recruiting trail hard. I believe he will bring in talent again to get us back dancing in the NCAAs with regularity. But we were dealt a serious serious blow this fall that requires us to recalibrate expectations in the short term. Extremely painful. But I’ll give Ewing a reprieve on this set of circumstances and expect improvement next year and NCAA tournament results in 2022-23. Horrible to type that, but it’s my new norm. There are now two groups forming in the fan base, those that exonerate Pat of the player transfers and those that place a significant portion of the blame on him. Those that do not think Ewing is to blame for the defections logically feel like he should get a reset of probably two years. Those in the camp that Ewing brought in these kids and needs to live and die with his guys will logically feel a decision should be made after next season. I am not sure which side has more followers at this point. Personally, I hold Ewing mostly accountable for the player departures. I do not think he manages his players well. These are not pros, some coddling is actually necessary and teenagers need guidance and oversight. Ewing courted Akinjo knowing that he never considered GU during his recruitment to UConn. Ewing had to know he brought in a player that was not committed to being a Hoya, Akinjo was only committed to being the PG from day 1 and being given a long leash. The important thing now is for Ewing not to repeat his mistakes because in all likelihood he will get 2 more years after this one to make it work.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jan 30, 2020 9:59:32 GMT -5
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