sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 27, 2019 23:48:50 GMT -5
The GU brand is not what it was, but it is still the premiere brand in the BE. OF course Nova is the hottest brand lately, but the Hoyas have three NCAA finals in four years in the 80s, first black coach to win a D1 Championship, and lots of NCAA appearances, BE success and BET titles. Most important, over the years GU has put a lot of guys in the league, including iconic and HOF guys like Patrick, Deke and Iverson. Each of those three is a unique, well-known player who set the tone for his age. Heck, the NBA draft lottery was established because of one guy - Patrick Ewing. Iverson was the first hip hop hoopster. It has been some years for these guys, but there is latent value - especially since Patrick returned to the program. If he can get this team back near the top, the underlying value and tradition will propel this team beyond anything any other BE team could achieve. We are not there yet, but start piling up those Ws and add a couple more kids like Mac then let's see where we are. Dreaming? Absolutely. But the potential and the possibilities are real. Exactly. Essentially, our ceiling is higher from a national interest perspective than any other Big East team. And by a wide margin. We just have sucked on the court too much. I'd trade a lot of things for the success Nova's had over the last few years, but at the end of the day, no one really cares about them one way or the other. No iconic or memorable players. No interesting storylines. A great, but boring, program. Vanillanova really. Again, I'd love to be boring and win that much. They are clearly in a better position than us right now. But if we are talking about the premiere brands, not programs, its a horse of a different color.
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Post by HamptonHoya on Jan 28, 2019 0:56:15 GMT -5
The GU brand is not what it was, but it is still the premiere brand in the BE. OF course Nova is the hottest brand lately, but the Hoyas have three NCAA finals in four years in the 80s, first black coach to win a D1 Championship, and lots of NCAA appearances, BE success and BET titles. Most important, over the years GU has put a lot of guys in the league, including iconic and HOF guys like Patrick, Deke and Iverson. Each of those three is a unique, well-known player who set the tone for his age. Heck, the NBA draft lottery was established because of one guy - Patrick Ewing. Iverson was the first hip hop hoopster. It has been some years for these guys, but there is latent value - especially since Patrick returned to the program. If he can get this team back near the top, the underlying value and tradition will propel this team beyond anything any other BE team could achieve. We are not there yet, but start piling up those Ws and add a couple more kids like Mac then let's see where we are. Dreaming? Absolutely. But the potential and the possibilities are real. Exactly. Essentially, our ceiling is higher from a national interest perspective than any other Big East team. And by a wide margin. We just have sucked on the court too much. I'd trade a lot of things for the success Nova's had over the last few years, but at the end of the day, no one really cares about them one way or the other. No iconic or memorable players. No interesting storylines. A great, but boring, program. Vanillanova really. Again, I'd love to be boring and win that much. They are clearly in a better position than us right now. But if we are talking about the premiere brands, not programs, its a horse of a different color. Love it. I am getting giddy.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 28, 2019 9:39:11 GMT -5
Meh, when winning we still have the best brand in the Big East. Georgetown was able to break into the cultural zeitgeist in the 80s in way that no other Big East (current or former) ever was, in way that was bigger than results on the court. Regardless of how much time passes that is always going to have value. Pair that with a team that makes the tournament consistently again and we should be the brand leader of the Big East. Even with all Villanova's success the last few years, no one really cares about them one way or the other nationally they way do/did about the Duke's, Ketucky's, UNLVs, and the Hoyas back in the day. Being the Marquee brand is more than just success on the court. I'd guess about half the viewers who watched the 1984 title game are now dead. And we're reaching a point where I'm not sure how many of our recruits' coaches or parents will remember anything from the Big John era. The program history still has juice, but it's just not as powerful on those under 45 as you might think. And don't forget that the JT3 era successes on the court were still fresh 7 years ago and had a lot to do with our negotiating leverage in the formation of the conference, it wasn't just the program cachet. Fact is, since the start of the new conference, we're the second or third worst BE team. So I'd say there's a lot riding on what this freshman class and Coach Ewing can do over the next few years. Winning consistently is the only thing that will keep the program relevant. I'm not dead. At least I don't think so.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 28, 2019 12:10:33 GMT -5
Meh, when winning we still have the best brand in the Big East. Georgetown was able to break into the cultural zeitgeist in the 80s in way that no other Big East (current or former) ever was, in way that was bigger than results on the court. Regardless of how much time passes that is always going to have value. Pair that with a team that makes the tournament consistently again and we should be the brand leader of the Big East. Even with all Villanova's success the last few years, no one really cares about them one way or the other nationally they way do/did about the Duke's, Ketucky's, UNLVs, and the Hoyas back in the day. Being the Marquee brand is more than just success on the court. I'd guess about half the viewers who watched the 1984 title game are now dead. And we're reaching a point where I'm not sure how many of our recruits' coaches or parents will remember anything from the Big John era. The program history still has juice, but it's just not as powerful on those under 45 as you might think. And don't forget that the JT3 era successes on the court were still fresh 7 years ago and had a lot to do with our negotiating leverage in the formation of the conference, it wasn't just the program cachet. Fact is, since the start of the new conference, we're the second or third worst BE team. So I'd say there's a lot riding on what this freshman class and Coach Ewing can do over the next few years. Winning consistently is the only thing that will keep the program relevant. It's not about having watched us in the championship. Or even on the court ever. We were a part of culture in the 80s in a way few basketball teams ever were or will be. We then had players who became part of the cultural in a way few ever will. While not relevant now, that type of history has immense value and can be utilized anytime in the future. Post Malone launched a career off of a song titled White Iverson for goodness sake. On the court success must come to utilize it, but we have something on the court success can't buy. We shouldn't forget that, and don't think we have.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Jan 28, 2019 13:00:57 GMT -5
We were iconic but I doubt any hoop team ever gets that level of cultural relevance again.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 28, 2019 13:06:31 GMT -5
We were iconic but I doubt any hoop team ever gets that level of cultural relevance again. Agreed, but thats not my point.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 28, 2019 13:26:08 GMT -5
We were iconic but I doubt any hoop team ever gets that level of cultural relevance again. Agreed, but thats not my point. The cultural impact the Hoyas had in the 80s was huge - but it is also long, long gone. Iverson connection may still be somewhat meaningful to a few parents of recruits (maybe?) but that group decreases by the year. We need to be focused on building a new brand and establishing the current program's relevance. Trying to recreate a past only we really remember is just sad. We shouldn't forget it - but we need to move on from it.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 28, 2019 13:44:00 GMT -5
Agreed, but thats not my point. The cultural impact the Hoyas had in the 80s was huge - but it is also long, long gone. Iverson connection may still be somewhat meaningful to a few parents of recruits (maybe?) but that group decreases by the year. We need to be focused on building a new brand and establishing the current program's relevance. Trying to recreate a past only we really remember is just sad. We shouldn't forget it - but we need to move on from it. Who said anything about recreating the past? McClung is a perfect example of embracing the future in the way we should, the type of players we should go after. The kind that are special on and off the court. Although, I will say its laughable that you think Iverson is only meaningful to parents of recruit and that those parents are so old they are DYING, making them born in, what? The 40s?. I don't think Iverson plays well to that demographic, nor do I think that demographic have children young enough to be in high school. He's still a cultural icon. As is Ewing honestly. Adidas just did a pop-up sneaker museum featuring old pairs of Ewings/Rivalry's from the mid-80s in NYC for sneakerheads that had a line around the block. I think everyone underestimates the value and cred these guys still have in basketball culture. And this isn't about recruiting or leveraging our past success in some way for on the court success either, to be clear. Its about being a brand that gives value to the conference. Do you know who still remembers the 80s, Ewing, Thompson, etc etc? TV executives that are negotiating deals and care about story lines, narratives, and how they can market a conference for more viewers. Do you know what makes that a lot easier? A history to go off of, and the richer the history, the more value it has. Even if the person you are marketing to doesn't know or currently care about that brands history, having it to lean into makes the modern day story both more interesting and more believable. And that is why our history makes ud, when winning enough to be relevant, the most valuable brand to the Big East.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 28, 2019 14:12:42 GMT -5
The cultural impact the Hoyas had in the 80s was huge - but it is also long, long gone. Iverson connection may still be somewhat meaningful to a few parents of recruits (maybe?) but that group decreases by the year. We need to be focused on building a new brand and establishing the current program's relevance. Trying to recreate a past only we really remember is just sad. We shouldn't forget it - but we need to move on from it. Who said anything about recreating the past? McClung is a perfect example of embracing the future in the way we should, the type of players we should go after. The kind that are special on and off the court. Although, I will say its laughable that you think Iverson is only meaningful to parents of recruit and that those parents are so old they are DYING, making them born in, what? The 40s?. I don't think Iverson plays well to that demographic, nor do I think that demographic have children young enough to be in high school. He's still a cultural icon. As is Ewing honestly. Adidas just did a pop-up sneaker museum featuring old pairs of Ewings/Rivalry's from the mid-80s in NYC for sneakerheads that had a line around the block. I think everyone underestimates the value and cred these guys still have in basketball culture. And this isn't about recruiting or leveraging our past success in some way for on the court success either, to be clear. Its about being a brand that gives value to the conference. Do you know who still remembers the 80s, Ewing, Thompson, etc etc? TV executives that are negotiating deals and care about story lines, narratives, and how they can market a conference for more viewers. Do you know what makes that a lot easier? A history to go off of, and the richer the history, the more value it has. Even if the person you are marketing to doesn't know or currently care about that brands history, having it to lean into makes the modern day story both more interesting and more believable. And that is why our history makes ud, when winning enough to be relevant, the most valuable brand to the Big East. Maybe our brand has the most potential value in the Big East, but it's barely a brand at the moment. Your math on the parents of current recruits is, um, interesting to say the least. And your take on the interests of TV executives who, while they themselves may well remember the 80s glory days, also realize that they are not marketing to their own demographic. They are marketing to people who were born when Iverson played at Georgetown, 25 years ago. That's a very long time. Anyway, it's not worth getting into a tit for tat over it. You are clearly someone who, in my opinion, vastly overestimates Georgetown's current standing on the national college basketball landscape. The brand nationally has gone dormant, despite a line of likely older consumers waiting in NYC to take a look at Ewing's 40 year old sneakers.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 28, 2019 17:12:02 GMT -5
Who said anything about recreating the past? McClung is a perfect example of embracing the future in the way we should, the type of players we should go after. The kind that are special on and off the court. Although, I will say its laughable that you think Iverson is only meaningful to parents of recruit and that those parents are so old they are DYING, making them born in, what? The 40s?. I don't think Iverson plays well to that demographic, nor do I think that demographic have children young enough to be in high school. He's still a cultural icon. As is Ewing honestly. Adidas just did a pop-up sneaker museum featuring old pairs of Ewings/Rivalry's from the mid-80s in NYC for sneakerheads that had a line around the block. I think everyone underestimates the value and cred these guys still have in basketball culture. And this isn't about recruiting or leveraging our past success in some way for on the court success either, to be clear. Its about being a brand that gives value to the conference. Do you know who still remembers the 80s, Ewing, Thompson, etc etc? TV executives that are negotiating deals and care about story lines, narratives, and how they can market a conference for more viewers. Do you know what makes that a lot easier? A history to go off of, and the richer the history, the more value it has. Even if the person you are marketing to doesn't know or currently care about that brands history, having it to lean into makes the modern day story both more interesting and more believable. And that is why our history makes ud, when winning enough to be relevant, the most valuable brand to the Big East. Maybe our brand has the most potential value in the Big East, but it's barely a brand at the moment. Your math on the parents of current recruits is, um, interesting to say the least. And your take on the interests of TV executives who, while they themselves may well remember the 80s glory days, also realize that they are not marketing to their own demographic. They are marketing to people who were born when Iverson played at Georgetown, 25 years ago. That's a very long time. Anyway, it's not worth getting into a tit for tat over it. You are clearly someone who, in my opinion, vastly overestimates Georgetown's current standing on the national college basketball landscape. The brand nationally has gone dormant, despite a line of likely older consumers waiting in NYC to take a look at Ewing's 40 year old sneakers. I was at the exhibit, no one there was older than 25. Besides me. www.nicekicks.com/adidas-originals-brings-back-an-80s-court-classic-with-the-rivalry-high/. It was written about in High Snobiety for goodness sakes. Post Malone's newest song also references Dikembe Mutumbo. You are seriously mistaken if you think its only the people who lived through their playing days who understand the significance of these names/players/programs. Kids do care about the culture of the game, which includes the past and are very aware of Ewing, Iverson, and Mutumbo still. They, along with the Georgetown program, had impacts that are still within the cultural conscious. Furthermore, you are seriously mistaken if you think any TV executive is marketing to a younger demographic. They are catering to a mass demo which actually values those older than 40+. That would be their team's digital and streaming departments goals and even then there isn't a whole lot of advertising money to be made yet. Why do you think there are so many retirement and insurance commercials during every live sporting event? It's not because of the Millenial/Gen Z market, I'll tell you that much. All of that being said, my point is not even that people will remember the 80s success ergo our brand is the most valuable. Its simply that having a strong history as a brand, any brand not just basketball teams, adds immense value to future brand building simply because it gives a layer of legitimacy that most brands being built don't have. Considering how few true "brands" there really are in College Basketball, having already having one established gives us a major advantage. The success of our future brand is not reliant on people remembering the 80s Hoyas, or Thompson or even Iverson for that matter.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 28, 2019 17:46:02 GMT -5
Sleepy: "All of that being said, my point is not even that people will remember the 80s success ergo our brand is the most valuable. Its simply that having a strong history as a brand, any brand not just basketball teams, adds immense value to future brand building simply because it gives a layer of legitimacy that most brands being built don't have. Considering how few true "brands" there really are in College Basketball, having one already established gives us a major advantage. "
That is the key point. EVERYONE knows the team has disappointed in recent years. Everyone. No one denies that. In order to capitalize on the history and image of Hoya Hoops, we MUST start winning again But once we do, it will be "The Hoyas Are Back..... AND Their greatest player ever is leading the resurgence."
That is a winning pitch. of COURSE we have to do a lot more to be in a position to capitalize on that history, tradition, long series of incredible accomplishments and players. But it is all possible IF Pat can get this team playing at their best AND add more key players over the next couple of years. Kids who are difference makers.
My personal belief is he knows all of this and is playing "the long game" while still trying to win right now.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 30, 2019 16:07:00 GMT -5
To those who don't follow the recruiting sub-board, we landed Qudus Wahab, who the staff had been on for some time:
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MEGAFAN
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Post by MEGAFAN on Jan 31, 2019 0:57:55 GMT -5
A player like Mac McClung doesn’t come around very often. It’s not only about his talent and skill set, but moreover his explosive style of play and tremendous popularity online and off.
This combined with Georgetown, Knicks and NBA legend Patrick Ewing as our Head Coach — plus a WINNING team — will do wonders for the Hoya brand over the next 3-4 seasons!
This is not to say Mac is or will be the single best player on the team throughout his tenure here. However the brand of electric ball he is capable of playing, especially in an up-tempo NBA style offense, could bring a level of excitement we haven’t witnessed since AI... #HoyaSaxa #Mackinjo #InEwingWeTrust
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Post by bigelephant on Jan 31, 2019 6:12:40 GMT -5
A player like Mac McClung doesn’t come around very often. It’s not only about his talent and skill set, but moreover his explosive style of play and tremendous popularity online and off. This combined with Georgetown, Knicks and NBA legend Patrick Ewing as our Head Coach — plus a WINNING team — will do wonders for the Hoya brand over the next 3-4 seasons! This is not to say Mac is or will be the single best player on the team throughout his tenure here. However the brand of electric ball he is capable of playing, especially in an up-tempo NBA style offense, could bring a level of excitement we haven’t witnessed since AI... #HoyaSaxa #Mackinjo #InEwingWeTrust Great insight.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Jan 31, 2019 6:45:51 GMT -5
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 31, 2019 12:54:58 GMT -5
Gotta say, over these past 2 seasons I've heard so many commentators and pundits compliment the job Ewing is doing, and I wrote it off to them just being nice to a legendary hall of famer. But these last few weeks I'm starting to see it too - and starting to get really excited about what the next few years hold. There's a better-than-I-expected chance this turns out well, and cements the Ewing legacy at Georgetown even further. My huge fear when he was hired was that one of my all-time sports idols would fall flat on his face. He's clearly not doing that, so that hurdle has been passed. But now I really think this program is headed for great things fairly soon - and I finally believe the pundits I thought were just being nice.
Being a Hoyas fan is fun again. Feels great.
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Post by wponds on Jan 31, 2019 14:34:45 GMT -5
I think it's easy to forget just how much worse we were last year... We hung in some games, but the outlook was bleak from the start.
Has this year been the prettiest? No. But the vision and hope for the future are certainly there, especially now that we're seeing first hand the kind of players he brings in and his ability to develop. Buy stock now.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Feb 5, 2019 16:57:07 GMT -5
Another day, another NBA team practicing at Georgetown.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Feb 7, 2019 15:16:11 GMT -5
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1789
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Post by 1789 on Feb 8, 2019 17:24:54 GMT -5
I think it's easy to forget just how much worse we were last year... We hung in some games, but the outlook was bleak from the start. Has this year been the prettiest? No. But the vision and hope for the future are certainly there, especially now that we're seeing first hand the kind of players he brings in and his ability to develop. Buy stock now. Wow. What a change from last year. Rivals currently ranks Hoyas as first in the Big East in Rebounds, Assists and Points per game. Akinjo ranks 1st in Big East in Assists.
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