hoyaroc
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,324
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Post by hoyaroc on Apr 12, 2020 0:00:57 GMT -5
No we should not hire #20 ASAP. Total disrespect to our current coach.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 12, 2020 6:44:35 GMT -5
I think Pat is going to be our coach for the long haul, win or lose. We’ve already cycled through Esh and JT3. I don’t think the administration has the appetite to regularly flip coaches and the bar is lower these days. Plus, Ewing is a GU and NBA legend. Be prepared for 10 years.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,361
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Post by calhoya on Apr 12, 2020 8:15:46 GMT -5
I think Pat is going to be our coach for the long haul, win or lose. We’ve already cycled through Esh and JT3. I don’t think the administration has the appetite to regularly flip coaches and the bar is lower these days. Plus, Ewing is a GU and NBA legend. Be prepared for 10 years. I hope you are right about Ewing being the coach for the long haul, but only if it is based upon his performance in the position, as well as his representation of the University as the single most visible member of the school. Assume that even the coach would agree that this should be the standard by which he is measured and he should not be retained "win or lose." .
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 12, 2020 9:03:12 GMT -5
I think Pat is going to be our coach for the long haul, win or lose. We’ve already cycled through Esh and JT3. I don’t think the administration has the appetite to regularly flip coaches and the bar is lower these days. Plus, Ewing is a GU and NBA legend. Be prepared for 10 years. Georgetown doesn't cycle through coaches. John Thompson was head coach for 13 years. The mean term of college coaches is five years. sbronars.wordpress.com/tag/tenure-of-head-coaches/There will be plenty of time to slog through this topic but as of Dave Leitao's bizarro-world contract extension, Patrick Ewing (three seasons, 49-46) and Travis Steele (two seasons, 38-28) move to the top of the Big East coaching speculation set. Ewing's record of 49-46 after 95 games is less than John Thompson III (66-29), Craig Esherick (61-34), John Thompson (55-40) or even Jack Magee (53-42).
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 12, 2020 9:59:46 GMT -5
Ewing will be coach for 10+ years.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on Apr 12, 2020 10:04:59 GMT -5
And he will be, pretty conclusively, the worst coach in our history.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 12, 2020 10:39:15 GMT -5
Hopefully Patrick WILL be around for 10+ years - because that would mean that he turned the program around and started winning. While I don't discount the "continuity" mindset of the Administration, I think that if we aren't at the very least in the top half of the conference in 2 years, there will be tremendous pressure from the fan base to make a sea change at the top.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,618
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 12, 2020 11:07:12 GMT -5
This is a weird conversation, because as much as Georgetown tends to live in a "the usual rules don't apply" world, that goes double for Ewing. The man doesn't have to work another day in his life if he doesn't want to. From a basketball standpoint, he's already in the Hall of Fame...twice, technically, counting the Dream Team. He has the entire NBA on speed dial and could easily get himself an NBA assistant or front office job, if he still felt the need to be around the game on a daily basis. It's just as likely that, were he to depart, it would be because *he* decided he wasn't having fun anymore, saw no clear path to success, etc.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by seaweed on Apr 12, 2020 11:11:24 GMT -5
And he will be, pretty conclusively, the worst coach in our history. And a happy Easter to you, who completely fails again. Blocked.
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Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Apr 12, 2020 11:15:18 GMT -5
And he will be, pretty conclusively, the worst coach in our history. If Patrick is coach for 10 years, we will have succeeded. Not because he would have been fired if we hadn’t, because he would have stepped away. The jury remains out. I do wonder if many of the constant critics would be speaking the same way if their favored choice had his record after 3 years. Maybe? Likely not.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,134
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 12, 2020 11:28:16 GMT -5
I don't think it's good to talk too much about this kind of thing at this juncture, because it's still completely possible that Patrick gets this ship turned around, takes us back to the tournament in the next year or two, the recruiting ticks up from there (possibly with a new assistant) and we're back to moving in the right direction. That said, if it doesn't turn around over the next couple of years, I'm not sure it'd be in anyone's best interest to go forward. The idea that we'd keep a coach for 10 years if he's not performing is silly. It'll either get better or there will be a parting of ways. Remember how ugly it got at the end of JTIII, when they had to play loud music to drown out angry fans? Nobody wants that environment for a beloved son like Patrick--including Patrick. What happened to Clyde Drexler at Houston when it didn't work out? Or Mullin at SJU? I think if it doesn't turn around and the fans revolt, you'd see some deal struck where Patrick retires or steps back like Mullin did. He can still maintain his legacy, he'll still get some sort of severance from the university, but he'll let someone else take over running the program.
To reiterate, the clear best case for all is that Patrick finds a way to turn things around and make us a competitive program again, and I have not thrown in the towel on that happening. But we need to climb out of the bottom 3 of the league, if not next year than the year after. We can't keep having Bottom 3 in the league, lose on the first night of the BET-type performances for a decade.
FWIW, on the list of coaches that was provided, some guys to keep an eye on over the next season or 2 might be:
#177, #175, #170, #106--these are guys who are a little younger and if they're good the next couple years might be intriguing.
#127, #110, #73, #48, #20--these are guys who probably ought to be near the top of the list if we were looking today. May have already moved onto bigger jobs if we're in the market a couple years from now, or may have shown themselves to be flashes in the pan.
#70, #28--two guys I wouldn't mind us looking at if we went outside the east coast. Last coaching search when the guy from St. Mary's was mentioned, I and many others didn't like it, thinking that we'd be better off with somebody that was used to recruiting DC and the northeast. At this point, I'd be happy with a total break from that--just get someone who is a quality coach, and if his recruiting connections are elsewhere that's ok. You can always add an assistant who recruits well locally--one of the biggest faults of Patrick thus far IMHO.
Again, this is not advocating for a change in the short-term. Pat still deserves a more time to show progress. But if it doesn't happen, we must be prepared.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 12, 2020 12:12:04 GMT -5
I don't think it's good to talk too much about this kind of thing at this juncture, because it's still completely possible that Patrick gets this ship turned around, takes us back to the tournament in the next year or two, the recruiting ticks up from there (possibly with a new assistant) and we're back to moving in the right direction. That said, if it doesn't turn around over the next couple of years, I'm not sure it'd be in anyone's best interest to go forward. The idea that we'd keep a coach for 10 years if he's not performing is silly. It'll either get better or there will be a parting of ways. Remember how ugly it got at the end of JTIII, when they had to play loud music to drown out angry fans? Nobody wants that environment for a beloved son like Patrick--including Patrick. What happened to Clyde Drexler at Houston when it didn't work out? Or Mullin at SJU? I think if it doesn't turn around and the fans revolt, you'd see some deal struck where Patrick retires or steps back like Mullin did. He can still maintain his legacy, he'll still get some sort of severance from the university, but he'll let someone else take over running the program. To reiterate, the clear best case for all is that Patrick finds a way to turn things around and make us a competitive program again, and I have not thrown in the towel on that happening. But we need to climb out of the bottom 3 of the league, if not next year than the year after. We can't keep having Bottom 3 in the league, lose on the first night of the BET-type performances for a decade. FWIW, on the list of coaches that was provided, some guys to keep an eye on over the next season or 2 might be: #177, #175, #170, #106--these are guys who are a little younger and if they're good the next couple years might be intriguing. #127, #110, #73, #48, #20--these are guys who probably ought to be near the top of the list if we were looking today. May have already moved onto bigger jobs if we're in the market a couple years from now, or may have shown themselves to be flashes in the pan. #70, #28--two guys I wouldn't mind us looking at if we went outside the east coast. Last coaching search when the guy from St. Mary's was mentioned, I and many others didn't like it, thinking that we'd be better off with somebody that was used to recruiting DC and the northeast. At this point, I'd be happy with a total break from that--just get someone who is a quality coach, and if his recruiting connections are elsewhere that's ok. You can always add an assistant who recruits well locally--one of the biggest faults of Patrick thus far IMHO. Again, this is not advocating for a change in the short-term. Pat still deserves a more time to show progress. But if it doesn't happen, we must be prepared. I will always support our current coach 150%. That said, I'm surprised you didn't add #129. A guy who is a great recruiter, owns the DC area, and is doing pretty good at his current school (over .500 his first year, was gonna be in the tournament this year). Plus he has experience at Georgetown: David Cox, URI.
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justsaying
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 709
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Post by justsaying on Apr 12, 2020 15:54:22 GMT -5
And he will be, pretty conclusively, the worst coach in our history. Hadn't been to this thread in a while; nothing has changed; still the same ones echoing, re-echoing the same old statements. Hoping to keep throwing until something sticks no matter what the smell is. With such conclusive insight it is a wonder that they could have informed us last fall that the cv19 was coming before it hit our shores and prepared us all. Oh, maybe it is because they are only experts on the coach and staff. Wondering why the University didn't pay for their insight. Putting together video teams is not the same as recruiting live players.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on Apr 12, 2020 16:31:53 GMT -5
And he will be, pretty conclusively, the worst coach in our history. Hadn't been to this thread in a while; nothing has changed; still the same ones echoing, re-echoing the same old statements. Hoping to keep throwing until something sticks no matter what the smell is. With such conclusive insight it is a wonder that they could have informed us last fall that the cv19 was coming before it hit our shores and prepared us all. Oh, maybe it is because they are only experts on the coach and staff. Wondering why the University didn't pay for their insight. Putting together video teams is not the same as recruiting live players. I thought it was a terrible hire and, three years on, nothing has happened to change my mind.
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playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 249
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Post by playtyler on Apr 12, 2020 16:44:59 GMT -5
I thought it was a terrible hire and, three years on, nothing has happened to change my mind. Thanks - great add to the board!!! Confirmation Bias.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,134
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 12, 2020 16:46:05 GMT -5
I will always support our current coach 150%. That said, I'm surprised you didn't add #129. A guy who is a great recruiter, owns the DC area, and is doing pretty good at his current school (over .500 his first year, was gonna be in the tournament this year). Plus he has experience at Georgetown: David Cox, URI. He could be a possibility, though I am not sure what the relationship is there. We know he was brought in to Georgetown largely as a conduit to DC Assault kids, but that relationship evaporated in a hurry when JT2 and Curtis had a falling out, and Cox was never really a great recruiter for us (anyone remember the Jordan Goodman saga?). So when he left Georgetown for Rutgers I always assumed that he may have been effectively pushed out though I don't know that first hand. He has proven to be a pretty decent recruiter of the DC area even sans DCA at his next couple stops and so far has URI headed in the right direction. That might be enough to get him a look, but the biggest question--really with anything to do with coaching at Georgetown--would be who is making the decision. If it's the old guard I'm not sure if Cox would be well-received, though I could be wrong and maybe his departure the first time was more similar to when Kirby left and he'd still be welcomed back. The biggest reason I left him off though is really just that IMHO if the Patrick experiment ultimately fails, we need a 100% clean break. Connections to the JT2 lineage would be a negative not a positive in the next hire. I personally wouldn't want to see us move on from Patrick to another JT2-loyalist who views the program through the lens of what it was in the '80s, whether that's Cox, Broadus, one of the current assistants, or someone else. I think it would be time for someone who is a total outsider and who has a brand new vision for what the program could be--a vision that is respectful of the program's traditions, but in no way beholden to it. Again, the best case is clearly still that Patrick is the man to turn it around. I have not given up on him, but we're also not where I hoped to be 3 seasons in so IMHO it's fair to start thinking through scenarios for the next few years.
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Apr 12, 2020 17:20:02 GMT -5
Scroll up to see full post, don't want to make this too long. I agree with everything you said, I just have a few names I'd like to add. #42 Todd Golden at San Francisco is an excellent head coach who got more than expected out of his players, even with a very good class leaving. He's a numbers guy and would be a complete change, and he can coach. He almost beat Gonzaga all three times they played (late game got ugly in the second game, but it was much closer than the score says) and competed with a very good team with a roster that lost it's leading scorer, assist leader (best player in Frankie Ferrari), and it's leading rebounder. Excellent coach, a complete change of pace and a guy who can win games. Someone else will scoop him up soon, might as well be us. #53 Kyle Smith at Washington State, formerly at San Francisco. Another guy who made the most out of what he had and built a really good team at USF and had a solid season at WSU. A good coach who could help this program. I didn't follow Washington State, so I have less to say, but he built a competitor at USF and after WSU lost Robert Franks to the draft, getting that team to .500 was a significant improvement and beat expectations. #52 LeVelle Moton at NCCU. By far the best coach in the conference. He wins games, makes the NCAA tourney and built a very good culture at that school. He had a very hard job and built a team that makes it to the dance very consistently and has a team that competes and does it in a very admirable way. if you haven't seen the video of his son crying when he realized what senior night meant, you should. It just shows it all. I like Mark Schmidt and Bob Richey a lot, too. Two very good coaches who have built solid teams at their schools and achieve a lot. Schmidt building an NCAA at large team out of Bonaventure is very impressive. And that roster after losing only one player can do it again. And Furman gets early season hype every once in a while after winning a few big games, and it's because they are very well-coached. Richey went into Nova and won. From my research, the last time the Hoyas did that was in the 2010-11 season. And that's on many more attempts. If Coach Muss would accept this job, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He's an excellent coach. There are more, but these are a few I'd look into.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on Apr 12, 2020 17:23:05 GMT -5
Thanks - great add to the board!!! Confirmation Bias. Feel free to point out all the great successes over the past three years.
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playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 249
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Post by playtyler on Apr 12, 2020 17:37:40 GMT -5
Thanks - great add to the board!!! Confirmation Bias. Feel free to point out all the great successes over the past three years. I am actually not a Ewing supporter. He should have been fired for handling situation this year. We were a national embarrassment. Boys should not have played after allegations and restraining orders. But, why don’t you tell us who you wanted three years ago when you do wisely didn’t want Ewing and how is that candidate doing? It has to be someone who would have come to us. Let us all know who you wanted oh wise one. I wanted Shaka smart. That has not aged well. In terms of things that have gone well. Recruiting was ok, Leblanc, akinjo, McClung, yurt, qudus, Allen, Pickett, Alexander, Blair, is a pretty decent talent pool. We almost beat duke and have had a couple wins over ranked teams. So there you go.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Apr 12, 2020 18:12:06 GMT -5
Feel free to point out all the great successes over the past three years. I am actually not a Ewing supporter. He should have been fired for handling situation this year. We were a national embarrassment. Boys should not have played after allegations and restraining orders. But, why don’t you tell us who you wanted three years ago when you do wisely didn’t want Ewing and how is that candidate doing? It has to be someone who would have come to us. Let us all know who you wanted oh wise one. I wanted Shaka smart. That has not aged well. In terms of things that have gone well. Recruiting was ok, Leblanc, akinjo, McClung, yurt, qudus, Allen, Pickett, Alexander, Blair, is a pretty decent talent pool. We almost beat duke and have had a couple wins over ranked teams. So there you go. I wanted an actual search that, ideally, resulted in a break from the Thompson influence. There is no guarantee it would have worked out but a new direction was long overdue and failing to do that was extremely disappointing. And, that list of accomplishments pretty much says it all.
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