drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 29, 2018 21:57:58 GMT -5
Look, Mulmore and Dickerson are gone next year. We aren't a tourney team this year. Ergo, why not go with the guys you will need next year and let them grow. Also, I'm beginning to think that Jesse just doesn't fit anymore. For whatever reason (physical or mental) he has just been a drag on our offense and an absolute disaster on defense. So why not give Walker more time on the court? Especially against teams with good 3 point shooters (which is just about all BE teams) Jesse just can't jump out and retreat fast enough to cover quicker centers. I may be wrong (I've been told that before) but for a long stretch of the Creighton game we looked a lot better with Blair, Mosley, Picket, Johnson, and Derrickson with Walker off the bench.
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gunny
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Post by gunny on Jan 29, 2018 22:36:34 GMT -5
Could Blair become a DSR type of player over his 4 years? Don't forget that DSR did not start his freshman year as he was playing behind Starks and Trawick. Not saying Blair will be half as good as DSR, but a similar type player.
Starks was a heck of a guard. Give me a Markel any day of the week.
FYI - Still upset that Whittington got suspended in early 2013. Definite Final 4 contender that year with Greg
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 29, 2018 22:48:50 GMT -5
He does have a solid float/midrange game. It hasn't showed up yet at this level but watching him in HS he showed he can finish with both hands from around 8-10 feet in and has a variety of shots in his bag. I thought he played pretty ok but in some ways he shot us in the game, then he shot us out of it. He can get hot and it's fun watching a player with no conscious get it going. Hopefully as he starts to play with better players he tightens up his shot selection because some of those shots are not what you want imo. If he does I could see those percentages go up a significant amount. Like the 4rbds and 3 assts also.... I mean, I will take 21 points and 3 assists on 17 shots and two turnovers every single game. He's going to get better at both shooting and shot selection over time. Considering he's tied with Jessie and Jagan as our second most efficient player in conference play, I don't see a ton of downside. In particular, I don't see him take a ton of bad shots. I think there was one I didn't like on Saturday. Yes, some are NBA 3s, but he obviously has that range. The shots he's taking are almost always OPEN, regardless of distance. On this team, an open shot is the best shot. It's not like we have someone who is a guaranteed better shot.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jan 29, 2018 23:01:03 GMT -5
Look, Mulmore and Dickerson are gone next year. We aren't a tourney team this year. Ergo, why not go with the guys you will need next year and let them grow. Also, I'm beginning to think that Jesse just doesn't fit anymore. For whatever reason (physical or mental) he has just been a drag on our offense and an absolute disaster on defense. So why not give Walker more time on the court? Especially against teams with good 3 point shooters (which is just about all BE teams) Jesse just can't jump out and retreat fast enough to cover quicker centers. I may be wrong (I've been told that before) but for a long stretch of the Creighton game we looked a lot better with Blair, Mosley, Picket, Johnson, and Derrickson with Walker off the bench. Jessie is good enough to not give up on. Walker is not the player right now to swap more minutes with Jessie. Walker can't really do much of anything right now. He is too raw to give you anything offensively, and still has some more to show defensively. We have to keep in mind stamina and fatigue. Yeah, in a ideal world some guys we have starting or coming off the bench, wouldn't start or get minutes. Look at Maryland right now. With their injuries, they have a shorter rotation. They run out of gas and lose games where they had leads. Govan could be hitting the wall right now. Kinda feared this early on with the way we heavily depended on Jessie and Marcus. Ewing is distributing minutes appropriately. We are seeing some improvement with the guys, just not in the win column. With the way Blair and Pickett are coming along, hopefully we can add to the win column during this upcoming, tough stretch.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 23:19:24 GMT -5
He does have a solid float/midrange game. It hasn't showed up yet at this level but watching him in HS he showed he can finish with both hands from around 8-10 feet in and has a variety of shots in his bag. I thought he played pretty ok but in some ways he shot us in the game, then he shot us out of it. He can get hot and it's fun watching a player with no conscious get it going. Hopefully as he starts to play with better players he tightens up his shot selection because some of those shots are not what you want imo. If he does I could see those percentages go up a significant amount. Like the 4rbds and 3 assts also.... I mean, I will take 21 points and 3 assists on 17 shots and two turnovers every single game. He's going to get better at both shooting and shot selection over time. Considering he's tied with Jessie and Jagan as our second most efficient player in conference play, I don't see a ton of downside. In particular, I don't see him take a ton of bad shots. I think there was one I didn't like on Saturday. Yes, some are NBA 3s, but he obviously has that range. The shots he's taking are almost always OPEN, regardless of distance. On this team, an open shot is the best shot. It's not like we have someone who is a guaranteed better shot. But none of those guys have been particularly efficient. Marcus is 20+pts above all 3. He also has the highest usage of anyone on the team in Conference play and he's shooting 32%. I just don't think all those are good shots His shot looks good, and I like his aggressive mentality, but I think better shot selection would improve his overall numbers...
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 29, 2018 23:23:42 GMT -5
Oh, of course better shot selection would improve his numbers.
Just saying there aren't many better options right now, so I'm fine with him shooting as he learns.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jan 29, 2018 23:39:54 GMT -5
Could Blair become a DSR type of player over his 4 years? Don't forget that DSR did not start his freshman year as he was playing behind Starks and Trawick. Not saying Blair will be half as good as DSR, but a similar type player. Starks was a heck of a guard. Give me a Markel any day of the week. FYI - Still upset that Whittington got suspended in early 2013. Definite Final 4 contender that year with Greg DSR was a combo guard. Could play the 2 or 1, didn't really have a set position in that backcourt. DSR was the kind of player most want Mosely to become. Preferably right now. Not on DSR's level, but a consistent 10-13 points per game. Blair is more a less a gunner. He is always looking for that 3. He doesn't have the 1 skills or handles right now for spot duty at the PG position. This could all change over time. As of now, in terms of their raw skills, I think Mosely looks more of the mold of a DSR than Blair. Again, this could change over time. Speaking of time, Markel's 1st 2 years were unremarkable. Look what he became his last 2 years. He was great. You never know with players. In he era of one and dones, sometimes we lose sight of the fact that guys have 4 years of eligibility to develop. Some take more time than others (see Starks and Henry Sims).
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 29, 2018 23:53:34 GMT -5
DSR was a scorer with a full bag of tricks, including a smooth stroke. I like Jagan a lot, but he has to work on his shot. DSR could also handle the ball through traffic- something Blair needs to work on.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 30, 2018 7:24:45 GMT -5
I've said this in the beginning the Hoyas need to start Blair.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 30, 2018 8:07:09 GMT -5
We need to try and win games this season and not look ahead to next year. Who would buy tickets to that and we don't get better draft position. It does the upperclassmen a disservice.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 30, 2018 10:41:39 GMT -5
Look, Mulmore and Dickerson are gone next year. We aren't a tourney team this year. Ergo, why not go with the guys you will need next year and let them grow. Also, I'm beginning to think that Jesse just doesn't fit anymore. For whatever reason (physical or mental) he has just been a drag on our offense and an absolute disaster on defense. So why not give Walker more time on the court? Especially against teams with good 3 point shooters (which is just about all BE teams) Jesse just can't jump out and retreat fast enough to cover quicker centers. I may be wrong (I've been told that before) but for a long stretch of the Creighton game we looked a lot better with Blair, Mosley, Picket, Johnson, and Derrickson with Walker off the bench. Jesse Govan has been struggling but he's still our second best player. I think part of the problem is that Jesse's game has turned into parking in the post, getting the pass, getting double teamed, and then he either takes a bad post shot, takes a face up jumper (which is not the shot you want to be taking), or he passes/turns it over. It's abundantly clear that against better competition, Govan is an ineffective post player. I think that Govan's play will not be optimized unless he's used a little more differently - more like Derrickson in flashing out to the perimeter for threes, etc. I realize Govan's three point shooting is off this year, but he was 50% freshman year and 40% last year. I think the guy has the skill. I just wonder if Govan has been focusing so much in practice on the post that he's let his perimeter shooting go a bit. Also, as that Casual article pointed out, even the best post players aren't that efficient. I am not saying Govan should never be in the post, but you don't want him constantly posting up (especially if he gets doubled). And, if he does post up and get doubled, you need him to either more effectively pass out of the double team or take a quicker and higher quality shot before the double team can be set.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 30, 2018 11:30:15 GMT -5
Teams are intentionally taking Govan out. We don't have the guard play to counter.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 30, 2018 11:32:10 GMT -5
Teams are intentionally taking Govan out. We don't have the guard play to counter. Or wing play... If Pickett keeps his current form, it would be huge for Govan and opening play.
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FrazierFanatic
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 30, 2018 12:23:29 GMT -5
We need to try and win games this season and not look ahead to next year. Who would buy tickets to that and we don't get better draft position. It does the upperclassmen a disservice. Not to mention that this program, and the players (and coaches!) need to learn how to win, and how it feels in a close game. With the exception of Walker - whom I agree has a long way to go - the other younguns are getting plenty of minutes and experience. Adjustments in the lineup can be made as appropriate from game to game, but there is no need to take minutes from upperclassmen solely to give more to freshmen and Jagan.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jan 30, 2018 13:09:05 GMT -5
Teams are intentionally taking Govan out. We don't have the guard play to counter. Or wing play... If Pickett keeps his current form, it would be huge for Govan and opening play. Or any-play besides Marcus. Mosely, Blair, and Pickett's scoring has been spotty all year. Not consistent enough to open things up for Jessie. Jesse is a good player, but he needs help or he can be neutralized.
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gunny
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Post by gunny on Jan 30, 2018 13:14:52 GMT -5
Could Blair become a DSR type of player over his 4 years? Don't forget that DSR did not start his freshman year as he was playing behind Starks and Trawick. Not saying Blair will be half as good as DSR, but a similar type player. Starks was a heck of a guard. Give me a Markel any day of the week. FYI - Still upset that Whittington got suspended in early 2013. Definite Final 4 contender that year with Greg DSR was a combo guard. Could play the 2 or 1, didn't really have a set position in that backcourt. DSR was the kind of player most want Mosely to become. Preferably right now. Not on DSR's level, but a consistent 10-13 points per game. Blair is more a less a gunner. He is always looking for that 3. He doesn't have the 1 skills or handles right now for spot duty at the PG position. This could all change over time. As of now, in terms of their raw skills, I think Mosely looks more of the mold of a DSR than Blair. Again, this could change over time. Speaking of time, Markel's 1st 2 years were unremarkable. Look what he became his last 2 years. He was great. You never know with players. In he era of one and dones, sometimes we lose sight of the fact that guys have 4 years of eligibility to develop. Some take more time than others (see Starks and Henry Sims). The point I was making was "could" Blair become more like DSR. I really don't think Mosely will become DSR lite. I thought DSR could be a gunner at times and am hoping that Blair reins this in once more talent arrives in the backcourt. As far Markel, he did struggle his first two years, but I was watching the last regular season Big East game against Syracuse last night and damn that backcourt of DSR/Starks/Trawick. I would kill for that right now. Of course I would also take another Otto Porter Jr. as well.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jan 30, 2018 13:41:41 GMT -5
I don't know if he "could". DSR had handles when he first came into Georgetown. Not sure if Blair can get to that point or not. He hasn't shown the ability to be a combo guard at this point. He looks like a 2-guard. Mosely, on the other hand is a combo guard. Not necessarily the most efficient one. But has shown signs of resembling a combo guard as opposed to Blair. Neither one are on DSR's level. But again, things can change over the course of time.
Starks just had that confidence, his last 2 years. He and DSR were interchangeable parts. Really complimented each other well. Trawick just brought that Philly grit and toughness that III's teams sometimes lacked.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 30, 2018 14:32:14 GMT -5
Teams are intentionally taking Govan out. We don't have the guard play to counter. I think you're right, but only to an extent. Derrickson, as he has improved, is also getting more attention. I think the big difference is that a very high percentage of Govan's possessions begin with him receiving the ball in the post (and then getting doubled), and these possessions are very likely to yield bad results. Derrickson's possessions are more varied - some at the post, some near the foul line, others on the perimeter. I am not saying you play Govan exactly like Derrickson, because they are different players, but I think as long as Govan remains as-is, you cannot plan to just put him in the post. If so, you're basically making your second best player largely useless. I think there needs to be better planning to get him more open shots/layups. And yes, I realize that it's easier to say "we need to get him better shots" than actually doing it. And obviously, more talent would help a lot. But, we aren't getting new talent at the moment, so we need to work with what we have. But, there's no sense in just trying to do the same with thing Govan game after game and having it end the same way every game. While I think Ewing has made the right decision in benching him at times, ideally you want to reposition him in a way that makes him a useful asset. While I have tried to avoid this topic since we started the Big East season, I think this is a great example of why the cupcake schedule was horrible. It gave Govan a false sense that he would be dominant/strong in the post, and all it took was good (not even great) competition to prove that wrong. I would have rather had Govan struggling to overcome these issues in December than in February.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 15:02:26 GMT -5
The problem is teams doubling Govan is actually a good thing in my view. Most coaches love it when other teams double players because it forces your defense to scramble and leads to 3 on 2's or 2 on 1's.. The answer is for Jessie to be better at trusting his teammates and passing out of doubles and for his teammates to knock down shots or be patient enough to allow for him to repost..
It's also something to be cognizant of when talking efficiency rates, not everyone is facing the same challenges.
If you notice we NEVER double. That's probably because Pat comes from the NBA where teams do it sparingly...
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Jan 30, 2018 15:27:15 GMT -5
The problem is teams doubling Govan is actually a good thing in my view. Most coaches love it when other teams double players because it forces your defense to scramble and leads to 3 on 2's or 2 on 1's.. The answer is for Jessie to be better at trusting his teammates and passing out of doubles and for his teammates to knock down shots or be patient enough to allow for him to repost.. It's also something to be cognizant of when talking efficiency rates, not everyone is facing the same challenges. If you notice we NEVER double. That's probably because Pat comes from the NBA where teams do it sparingly... Govan is really bad at handling the double team. He sometimes sees a cutter through the lane for a nice pass, but most of the time he just holds the ball as the two defenders swarm him, and he seems to see less and less of the court with every passing second he holds the ball. maybe some of this is teammates not moving to open spots effectively. But most of it seems to be Govan's lack of feel for how to pass out of the double team. This is nothing new, it happened on the more rare occasions he posted up and got doubled under JTIII. Derrickson has the same basic issue, but he is sometimes able to power through the double for a half decent shot, or at least find a safety valve pass before turning the ball over. But both guys turn the ball over way more than the average post player when doubled in the post.
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