Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 3, 2016 9:53:41 GMT -5
Not really. 103 wins, multiple all star / HOF potential caliber players in the lineup, a stacked bullpen, the reigning Cy Young Award winner, the ERA champion and Jon Lester as their top three pitchers. I'd take their starting pitchers over the pitching staff of the '98 Yankees and the Big Red Machine for sure. The various statistical sites have the Cubs as one of, if not the best defense of all time. Any number of Yankee teams would tell you that you are dead wrong and I would agree with them. And I loathe the Yankees. For that matter the late 40's and early 50's Dodger teams that did not win were all better than this team.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Nov 3, 2016 9:57:48 GMT -5
Here's what's not a joke and not hijacking the thread. The MVP of the Cubs? Theo Epstein. Was the youngest MLB GM ever when he took over the Red Sox in late 2002 at age 28 and ended their 86 year WS Championship drought in 2004. They won a second WS in 2007. He left Boston in 2011, but the team he built went on to win one more championship in 2013.
Epstein became President of Baseball Operations for the Chicago Cubs after the 2011 season. Now he has ended the longest WS drought in history, winning this latest Championship with Chicago.
Epstein has to be Exec of the year, the decade and the century. What remarkable achievements.
As for Cleveland, they went 7 games, overcame deficits of 5-1 down and 6-3 to tie the game in the bottom of the 8th, then send it to extra innings. Remarkable job by the Indians too. Nearly won the whole thing, but just came up a little short. Assuming everyone stays healthy next year, both teams should have strong seasons once again. Congrats to both teams and their fans.
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Post by badgerhoya on Nov 3, 2016 13:40:30 GMT -5
Here's what's not a joke and not hijacking the thread. The MVP of the Cubs? Theo Epstein. Was the youngest MLB GM ever when he took over the Red Sox in late 2002 at age 28 and ended their 86 year WS Championship drought in 2004. They won a second WS in 2007. He left Boston in 2011, but the team he built went on to win one more championship in 2013. Epstein became President of Baseball Operations for the Chicago Cubs after the 2011 season. Now he has ended the longest WS drought in history, winning this latest Championship with Chicago. Epstein has to be Exec of the year, the decade and the century. What remarkable achievements. As for Cleveland, they went 7 games, overcame deficits of 5-1 down and 6-3 to tie the game in the bottom of the 8th, then send it to extra innings. Remarkable job by the Indians too. Nearly won the whole thing, but just came up a little short. Assuming everyone stays healthy next year, both teams should have strong seasons once again. Congrats to both teams and their fans. On that last point, can you imagine if they hadn't lost some of their starting pitching before the postseason - so they didn't have to use Kluber so much? Or Brantley, to add a bit more pop to the lineup? Could it have been an even better Series?!
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 3, 2016 13:56:56 GMT -5
This discussion makes me want to . Go Nats! Helluva series, though.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 3, 2016 18:19:20 GMT -5
I'M ON BOARD WITH THE CUBS AS THE BEST TEAM OF ALL TIME! I AM NOT, HOWEVER, UNBIASED. NOR INTERESTED IN STATS! NOR WILL I STOP TYPING IN CAPS ALL DAY BECAUSE IT'S ALL I CAN DO TO STOP MYSELF FROM SCREAMING THAT THE CUBS WON THE WORLD SERIES LAST NIGHT AND HOW IS ANYONE IN THIS DAMN OFFICE ABLE TO FOCUS! CLIENT EMAILS FROM ME TODAY ARE GOING TO PROVOKE WEIRD RESPONSES, BUT THAT'S NOT MY CONCERN!!! SERIOUSLY WHO'S UP FOR ANOTHER VERSE OF GO, CUBS, GO!!! Nice. Congrats from a Chisox fan to a Cubs fan.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 3, 2016 18:29:38 GMT -5
I'M ON BOARD WITH THE CUBS AS THE BEST TEAM OF ALL TIME! I AM NOT, HOWEVER, UNBIASED. NOR INTERESTED IN STATS! NOR WILL I STOP TYPING IN CAPS ALL DAY BECAUSE IT'S ALL I CAN DO TO STOP MYSELF FROM SCREAMING THAT THE CUBS WON THE WORLD SERIES LAST NIGHT AND HOW IS ANYONE IN THIS DAMN OFFICE ABLE TO FOCUS! CLIENT EMAILS FROM ME TODAY ARE GOING TO PROVOKE WEIRD RESPONSES, BUT THAT'S NOT MY CONCERN!!! SERIOUSLY WHO'S UP FOR ANOTHER VERSE OF GO, CUBS, GO!!! Nice. Congrats from a Chisox fan to a Cubs fan. The best part of this is that insipid jackasses like Bill Murray can find a new quest...
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 3, 2016 18:58:32 GMT -5
Nice. Congrats from a Chisox fan to a Cubs fan. The best part of this is that insipid jackasses like Bill Murray can find a new quest... Elvado, I feel weird coming to Bill Murray's defense twice on your posts, but here goes. I thought that his taking a random Cubs fan who he did not know to game 7 was a wonderful gesture, one that I'm sure she will appreciate for the rest of her life (assuming he didn't pull a Trump/Bubba on her).
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 3, 2016 22:01:48 GMT -5
Not really. 103 wins, multiple all star / HOF potential caliber players in the lineup, a stacked bullpen, the reigning Cy Young Award winner, the ERA champion and Jon Lester as their top three pitchers. I'd take their starting pitchers over the pitching staff of the '98 Yankees and the Big Red Machine for sure. The various statistical sites have the Cubs as one of, if not the best defense of all time. The Cubs will be the next Red Sox. Going from underdog that people want to win to hated aholes. A post like this makes that more evident. They played an undermanned Indians team and got extremely lucky and now they are the 27 Yankees. You've made a fool of yourself already but I'll chalk that up to the moment. By the way the Cubs have a manager that proved to be a joke.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Nov 3, 2016 23:12:39 GMT -5
Not really. 103 wins, multiple all star / HOF potential caliber players in the lineup, a stacked bullpen, the reigning Cy Young Award winner, the ERA champion and Jon Lester as their top three pitchers. I'd take their starting pitchers over the pitching staff of the '98 Yankees and the Big Red Machine for sure. The various statistical sites have the Cubs as one of, if not the best defense of all time. The Cubs will be the next Red Sox. Going from underdog that people want to win to hated aholes. A post like this makes that more evident. They played an undermanned Indians team and got extremely lucky and now they are the 27 Yankees. You've made a fool of yourself already but I'll chalk that up to the moment. By the way the Cubs have a manager that proved to be a joke. They beat a hell of a lot better teams than the 1927 Yankees did--how many minor league talents were playing because African Americans weren't allowed to play? Pre-integration teams are massively overrated. The Big Red Machine's probably better (though their pitching staff wasn't particularly great) and I'd say the 1998 Yankees are probably better as well, but I think there's a legitimate argument to be made. And no one thinks Addison Russell's first name is "pastadiving". Also, I'm Twins fan, so I'm not exactly a Cubs homer. Appreciate everyone being jackasses about it though.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 3, 2016 23:19:07 GMT -5
Not really. 103 wins, multiple all star / HOF potential caliber players in the lineup, a stacked bullpen, the reigning Cy Young Award winner, the ERA champion and Jon Lester as their top three pitchers. I'd take their starting pitchers over the pitching staff of the '98 Yankees and the Big Red Machine for sure. The various statistical sites have the Cubs as one of, if not the best defense of all time. The Cubs will be the next Red Sox. Going from underdog that people want to win to hated aholes. A post like this makes that more evident. They played an undermanned Indians team and got extremely lucky and now they are the 27 Yankees. You've made a fool of yourself already but I'll chalk that up to the moment. By the way the Cubs have a manager that proved to be a joke. People that weren't Red Sox fans wanted them to win? Why? I don't think the Cubs are an all time great team but, to be fair, they have a ton of young talent and potential to the degree that they could be. It's a great time to be a Cubs fan. If you look at the 98 Yankees, however, there aren't a ton of HOF type guys on that roster. It just all came together with a bunch of guys having career type years at the same time. If you go position by position on career numbers when it's all over, that "best team" argument for the Cubs might sound a lot better. That's how much potential the Cubs' players have. Having said that, that 98 Yankees team was ridiculous in that one year. Whenever they lost, it seemed like an anomaly somehow. It felt like they were a good amount better than every team they played every day they played. I think there were 10 players (IIRC) that had at least double digit homers and probably 4 or 5 guys with 20+ and I'm not talking about the yoked, roided type dudes. Though Straw did love the nose candy. Also, the team OBP that year was insane. There was no soft spot in that lineup. They should continue to improve but they need to upgrade their hitting coach. The game plan early was just to throw breaking balls. And count recognition was really bad. I didn't and don't think Cleveland is all that great on paper. Their offense is not good at all. Especially without a guy like Brantley in the lineup.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 4, 2016 0:18:34 GMT -5
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 5, 2016 0:32:21 GMT -5
Not the HOF in Cooperstown. Not with a 146-84 lifetime record.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 5, 2016 7:46:24 GMT -5
Lester'S career numbers don't even make the Hall of Pretty Good.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Nov 5, 2016 15:03:04 GMT -5
I'm late to the party on this one, but I can't resist chiming in.
It was a fun World Series, but not one of the best ever played. Before I agree to anointing the Chicago Cubs as a "team for the ages," let's see them repeat what they accomplished. There were a lot of experts who looked at the New York Mets of the mid 1980s and saw a dynasty-in-the-making, and they only won one Series. Assuming Aroldis Chapman takes the free agent money and runs, I'd be surprised if the Cubs bullpen could produce at the same level.
As for Jon Lester's qualifications for the Hall of Fame. . .premature at best, and laughable at worst. I'd argue for Mike Mussina and Curt Schilling before Lester, and I don't think either of them are Hall of Famers either.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Nov 5, 2016 18:58:35 GMT -5
Lester'S career numbers don't even make the Hall of Pretty Good. Hey, Elvado, you of all people should be a big Lester fan, as he is a cancer survivor.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 5, 2016 19:20:22 GMT -5
I am. He is in the courage HOF. Just not Cooperstown.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 5, 2016 20:11:55 GMT -5
The Cubs have a lot of young talent. Their fans are, rightfully, excited and hopeful for the future.
If Jon Lester never pitched another inning, he never sniffs a vote for the HOF. He was, also, an awful choice to bring into game 7. He gives up runs early. That's his MO. When he came in, I expected the Cubs to lose. Add to that that he, literally, cannot hold runners on base and almost never attempts to pick anyone off... against Cleveland? Really? Terrible managerial move that, somehow, worked out.
I'd agree with nj's argument for Mussina as a HOF'er. He was on some good and some bad Orioles teams but was a stud for a lot of years. People point to his only having one 20 win season but some of those Baltimore teams weren't good. Schilling's an ass and was a Red Sox pitcher so I can't be impartial.
Taking the where the teams rank all time part out of it, I really enjoyed the Series. I still don't know how the Indians got there but I guess I can try to watch more of their games next year to figure it out. Their offense, nearly top to bottom, is unimpressive. Their pitching is really good but it's not excellent. If the Cubs could hit some breaking balls, I think the Series would have been less competitive. But, as a fan of neither of those teams, I'm really happy for the way the Series played out. Great story and terrific games. Congratulations to both teams.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 5, 2016 21:45:48 GMT -5
I think I'll be right about Lester in the end, all your excellent dissent notwithstanding (and thanks for jumping on my intentional discussion-starting add-on to the obvious Theo choice).
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 5, 2016 22:36:36 GMT -5
I think I'll be right about Lester in the end, all your excellent dissent notwithstanding (and thanks for jumping on my intentional discussion-starting add-on to the obvious Theo choice). I know how he pitched in the 2014 playoffs. That's all that matters to me
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 6, 2016 2:00:00 GMT -5
Shocking revelation, that.
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