GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Apr 18, 2016 17:41:47 GMT -5
Starters: Mulmore, LJ, Pryor, Copeland, Govan Heavy Minutes Backups: Derrickson, White, Johnson, Mourning Light Minutes Backups: Cameron, Mosely, Campbell, Agau Completely agree. Hard to imagine this isn't setting up for constant defensive pressure.
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lda05816
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Post by lda05816 on Apr 18, 2016 17:59:09 GMT -5
I don't think there will necessarily be a backup center but I think Akoy, Marcus and Trey will all see time there. I think going small in spurts will be effective offensively. I don't know about that. Perhaps we can agree that our centers need to be more agile and versatile big men, but the center --the solid center--is here to stay. I agree the traditional center position still has some relevance but it's certainly changed. One of Govan's biggest strength offensively is his ability to shoot from the peremiter and stretch the floor. I really don't think we need another traditional center to back him up. Villanova just won a national title with 1 player in their rotation over 6'8". Obviously they had excellent team defense which covered up any defensive limitations when Ochefu was off the floor but I don't think Center is an issue for next year's team. How many Big East teams can throw multiple big bodies at the center position?
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 18, 2016 18:15:41 GMT -5
Would you rather our best player have to sit down for the final 15 minutes of the first half because he got 2 quick fouls? I assume we can all agree LJ played much better coming off the bench. What makes you think we'd be down 10 when the line up I proposed only has one carry over from our starting line up of most of last year? Ummm.... So you're afraid something bad is gonna happen and your first option is to make sure we limit him first even though there's no guarantee of him getting in foul trouble. He played his whole first year without getting in foul trouble and the second half of this year at an average rate. He stopped fouling because he stopped fouling, not because he was a sixth man. I mean, I guess agree to disagree but it makes no sense to not have LJ starting...he's by far our best player and was by far our most consistent player last year. I don't have the time to go through the play by play, but my recollection is that Peak was more effective and less foul prone coming off the bench. He seemed to thrive in that role because he is a high energy player and it seemed like he was often too energetic to start the game and picked up two quick fouls on multiple occasions. JT3 then moved him to the bench to allow him to take in the action and calm down and he provided a great spark off the bench. I'm by no means saying he has to come off the bench or that he definitely will, but it's not crazy to think he might. It doesn't really matter who starts I think LJ will play starters minutes and may lead us in minutes. He can still do that coming off the bench if need be. I don't see how him coming off the bench will necessarily put us in a hole or limit him in anyway. Hopefully we'll be rotating players in and out fairly frequently to give them breathers due to a faster pace.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 18, 2016 20:10:22 GMT -5
Ummm.... So you're afraid something bad is gonna happen and your first option is to make sure we limit him first even though there's no guarantee of him getting in foul trouble. He played his whole first year without getting in foul trouble and the second half of this year at an average rate. He stopped fouling because he stopped fouling, not because he was a sixth man. I mean, I guess agree to disagree but it makes no sense to not have LJ starting...he's by far our best player and was by far our most consistent player last year. I don't have the time to go through the play by play, but my recollection is that Peak was more effective and less foul prone coming off the bench. He seemed to thrive in that role because he is a high energy player and it seemed like he was often too energetic to start the game and picked up two quick fouls on multiple occasions. JT3 then moved him to the bench to allow him to take in the action and calm down and he provided a great spark off the bench. I'm by no means saying he has to come off the bench or that he definitely will, but it's not crazy to think he might. It doesn't really matter who starts I think LJ will play starters minutes and may lead us in minutes. He can still do that coming off the bench if need be. I don't see how him coming off the bench will necessarily put us in a hole or limit him in anyway. Hopefully we'll be rotating players in and out fairly frequently to give them breathers due to a faster pace. Understood, part of my point was that now that he knows not to foul he doesn't really need to come off the bench anymore. As for the disadvantage it could potentially pose us - imagine him sitting on the bench for 4-8 mins at h beginning of the game. That means he would only be able to play the 32-36 remaining minutes, and if we're gonna assume he needs a breather (or isn't starting the second half either), there could easily be games where he can't possibly play more than 30 mins (not even accounting for fatigue or foul trouble) and I'm just saying I'd rather have my best player available for all 40 rather than preemptively limit him.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Apr 18, 2016 20:43:32 GMT -5
I don't know about that. Perhaps we can agree that our centers need to be more agile and versatile big men, but the center --the solid center--is here to stay. I agree the traditional center position still has some relevance but it's certainly changed. One of Govan's biggest strength offensively is his ability to shoot from the peremiter and stretch the floor. I really don't think we need another traditional center to back him up. Villanova just won a national title with 1 player in their rotation over 6'8". Obviously they had excellent team defense which covered up any defensive limitations when Ochefu was off the floor but I don't think Center is an issue for next year's team. How many Big East teams can throw multiple big bodies at the center position? I'm going to say something that we don't see often on this board: I see your point.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Apr 18, 2016 20:56:50 GMT -5
Assuming PW and Akoy come back at or near 100% (please let this be the case), there are minutes to be won by a bunch of guys. Tre and Isaac, in particular, had better be putting in work or they could very easily lose a significant number of minutes.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 18, 2016 21:41:15 GMT -5
Starters: Mulmore, LJ, Pryor, Copeland, Govan Heavy Minutes Backups: Derrickson, White, Johnson, Mourning Light Minutes Backups: Cameron, Mosely, Campbell, Agau The only difference for me is that I would have White in the starting lineup and take either Mulmore or Pryor out of it. Glad to see another person who has some love for Mourning's game.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 18, 2016 21:45:43 GMT -5
My belief is you have primary scores in Peak Pryor Govan and Ike. Most likely you will probably have at minimum 2 of those guys on the court at all times. Those are the guys who need to step up and lead us offensively. So who you put with those guys has to be someone who is going to make the game easier for them. Derrickson is already one of the team's best scorers and I expect a major jump for him next season. Still I want him coming off the bench to play the Peak role next year, the guy who can come in and either provide or add another extra offensive spark.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 18, 2016 21:51:56 GMT -5
My belief is you have primary scores in Peak Pryor Govan and Ike. Most likely you will probably have at minimum 2 of those guys on the court at all times. Those are the guys who need to step up and lead us offensively. So who you put with those guys has to be someone who is going to make the game easier for them. Derrickson is already one of the team's best scorers and I expect a major jump for him next season. Still I want him coming off the bench to play the Peak role next year, the guy who can come in and either provide or add another extra offensive spark. I mean, I think once the game slows down for him and he stops making freshman mistakes, his ability is easily top 3 on this team. The kid is a tremendous worker, I wouldn't be surprised to see him as one of our very best players next year. For me, his performance in Italy and early on (against MD) was key. Dude is a player and has the tools to be a mismatch nightmare. If he commits to hitting the boards harder and gets a little more bounce he will be hard to stop on the inside. 90% from the line...don't sleep on that
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Apr 18, 2016 23:53:08 GMT -5
Dont sleep on George!
123 fireballs
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 18, 2016 23:58:31 GMT -5
I'd like to see full court press with these guys. They are all long and athletic and interchangeable parts which is key to running a great full court press and not just as a means to take 3-5 seconds off the clock.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Apr 19, 2016 0:03:57 GMT -5
I'd like to see full court press with these guys. They are all long and athletic and interchangeable parts which is key to running a great full court press and not just as a means to take 3-5 seconds off the clock. I think we will. It looked to me like JT3 really wanted to run it more last year, but the defense was so awful, and we committed so many fouls, he decided to just run it to slow the other team down a little. Not sure that was the right call -- might have been better just to keep up the pressure to try to turn the season around, but I certainly get why he didn't use it further (we might have needed a 30-man roster to complete games). I'm thinking that if he has the parts to do it more effectively, he's going to mix up looks, some full court, some token, some halfcourt trapping. I hope so, although I still wish we had a shot rejecter lurking at the back of it. I hope Jessie grows into that role...
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jld
Member
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Post by jld on Apr 19, 2016 8:17:20 GMT -5
I think that all slots except LJ and Govan are open to competition. I would not pencil Copeland in as a starter, as he simply had a poor year last year. With better guard depth and guard play overall, the chemistry may change and I believe that Ike can turn it around. But White and Derrickson should get major time up front, Calb may see minutes, and I can see a three guard lineup with LJ or Pryor at the swing position. So the bottom line is that there will be competition for minutes at both forward positions.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 19, 2016 8:22:25 GMT -5
I think one of the reasons we didn't press more is that DSR needed to play pretty much the entire game for us to be successful. I think with the current line up no one needs to be playing 35 minutes a game. So we can run lots of different people and line ups out there to keep people fresh.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 19, 2016 8:42:34 GMT -5
I'd love to see a more consistent press, too. But I'm pessimistic we'll see it, if only because it simply hasn't been something III has used. I strongly suspect we'll see continued change offensively (the dribble drive being our chief mode of offense already last year). But defensively, I suspect III will try to begin the year playing solid half-court man or zone.
When we've seen a press, it's been the 1-2-2 "contain" press that serves to slow down the offense. I think we'll see that plenty. But I just don't see us using a forty minutes of hell style. Instead, it'll be used if the half-court D isn't working.
I'm a believer in a "use a press until the other team shows they can hurt it" defense because it's the easiest way to get easy points. So, I'd love to be wrong.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 11:11:24 GMT -5
I remember us pressing a lot 2nd half of the season... If I recall correctly and I could be wrong 3 used to take the press of once we got into the penalty which unfortunately for us last year could be right before the under 16 time out...
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 19, 2016 11:19:21 GMT -5
I'd like to see full court press with these guys. They are all long and athletic and interchangeable parts which is key to running a great full court press and not just as a means to take 3-5 seconds off the clock. I think we will. It looked to me like JT3 really wanted to run it more last year, but the defense was so awful, and we committed so many fouls, he decided to just run it to slow the other team down a little. Not sure that was the right call -- might have been better just to keep up the pressure to try to turn the season around, but I certainly get why he didn't use it further (we might have needed a 30-man roster to complete games). I'm thinking that if he has the parts to do it more effectively, he's going to mix up looks, some full court, some token, some halfcourt trapping. I hope so, although I still wish we had a shot rejecter lurking at the back of it. I hope Jessie grows into that role... We couldn't run an aggressive ball hawking press last year because we had the wrong personnel for it. You need length and athletics to cause turnovers. DSR lacks length and isn't quick and Tre Campbell is short and Cameron lacks foot speed so it was very easy to see over the press or speed dribble past half court. This year we have Jagan with 6-9 wingspan and athleticism, 6-4 point guard in Mulmore, and 6-5 Pryor all at the guard spots. So gives us a lot of length and athleticsm to make it difficult for the opposing ball handlers to see the floor.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 19, 2016 14:12:53 GMT -5
I know there's a lot of talk about the press, but is it possible that with the infusion of new guards that we might see the 2-3 zone defense a lot more? Last year, our zone was downright atrocious, but we know that JT3 teams can play it extremely effectively (see 2012 and 2013).
I think that we could be much better equipped given the size that Mulmore and Pryor bring. You could easily envision lineups with Mulmore (6'4), Pryor (6'5), Peak (6'5), Copeland (6'9 or 6'10), and Govan (6'10). Or something like Pryor (6'5), Peak (6'5), White (6'8), Copeland (6'9 or 6'10), Govan (6'10). Derrickson, Agau, and Mourning all bring good size too.
Playing more zone would have the added benefit of keeping our people out of foul trouble - if it is effective. It was so bad last year, that any benefit of fewer fouls was overriden by poor defense allowing the other team to score. That said, our zone this season featured a lot of DSR with Campbell, which was not strong defensively at all. My feeling is that Mulmore and Pryor would be much better in those situations and make for a stronger zone.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 19, 2016 16:45:20 GMT -5
We also threw out a 1-3-1 on a few rare occasions. Would be a luxury to have multiple good defensive options next year instead of multiple bad options like this past year.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 20, 2016 13:49:02 GMT -5
I see the ball in the hands of Mulmore, White, Peak and Mosely in terms of PG/initiators of the offense as all 4 have shown the ability to attack the defense off the bounce and have demonstrated very good court vision. I think Tre's best opportunity for playing time will be off the ball as a spot up shooter kind of like the role he had his freshman year when DSR and Jabril managed the ball handling and initiator offense role for the team. It's not hard to have a low turnover rate when you pass the ball from side to side on the perimeter. I agree that he absolutely has to improve his defense. If he doesn't, I don't think he will play. We need to stop wanting to make Tre a PG because nothing in his game says he is a PG except for his height. Yeah but Jagans not a point right now and a Frosh, White better served in a Point Forward role and Mulmore is an unknown. Personally don't think anybody on this board has seen enough to know either way what he will be. He might be better served as a spark off the bench than a steady hand at the start. Mulmore also has to show he can knock down jumpers or that driving ability can be lessened by good game planningIt all comes down to roles and what makes the team most effective. My point is none of this is set in stone and guys have a whole Summer to get right so we will see. Also there's a difference between starting and minutes. My belief is you have primary scores in Peak Pryor Govan and Ike. Most likely you will probably have at minimum 2 of those guys on the court at all times. Those are the guys who need to step up and lead us offensively. So who you put with those guys has to be someone who is going to make the game easier for them.
White would definitely be one of those guys in the Frontcourt. If he's being Dynamic creating for our scorers and offense is going through him in a Point Forward role maybe what makes you best is a kid that can spread the floor knock down a open Jumper, defer to those guys, play mistake free, and be a game manager like Wallace was. If guys are getting bottled up and stagnant like last year then you probably need more breakdown ability playmaking at the point and It's Mulmore. It's things we have to figure out and guys are going to have their opportunities. I think everything else is somewhat predictable and Tre has to show he can defend a lot better. Mulmore sounds and looks physically great but until I see more I'm not going to say he's a shoe in for anything other than competing for minutes. The competition should make both guys better and I think both enter with giant chips on their shoulders tbh... In terms of Mulmore having to show he can knock down the jumper consistently, I agree with that but if he's able to move the ball and create for teammates like the 6 APG states he has the ability to, then he's a much better option then at the PG then Tre. Tre has already demonstrated that he doesn't have the ability to drive consistently and finish at the rim or find teammates for easy baskets nor knock down jumpers. So Mulmore's already an upgrade. On your belief of the team's primary scores are Peak, Copeland, Pryor and Govan, I agree completely and that's why I said I would make the primary ball handlers/facilatators Mulmore, White, Peak and Mosely. With White and Mosely, they have great court vision and solid ball handling skills and the ability to attack the basket, so you can run the offense through them. Mulmore's 6 APG albeit at a lower level at least demonstrates the ability to make the game easier for teammates and he is known as a player who likes to get down hill into the lane and attack the basket, so you can run the offense through him as well. Peak will draw a lot attention and at times last year showed the ability to drive and kick to open teammates. All of the 4 previous players skill sets show that they sh be able to create outside the offense at the end of the shot clock or when the offense bogs down. All of what I have described above is more then Tre has shown in 2 years at Georgetown. If you iniate the offense through those 4 players primarily, it gives Campbell the opportunity to focus on what he has demonstrated he can do at a somewhat high level and that is being a catch and shoot perimeter player like he was as a freshman. IMO if Campbell accepts and tries to excel in that role, he will get to playing time. If he tries to play outside his abilities as a PG/iniator of offense, he won't play because he's not good at it and we potentially have 4 other players who can create offense for others better then Tre can. Tre will probably be the 5th best iniator/creator of offense on the roster. If that's true, he can't expect to get minutes, where he could be the team's best option as a floor spacing shooter competing with Reggie Cameron for those minutes.
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