drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by drquigley on Feb 21, 2016 12:50:47 GMT -5
You want to know the value of a good point guard(s) and an offense that utilizes them ask yourself this question: "when was the last time the Hoyas scored on a fast break basket"? Since so many of our opponents point guards regularly drive past our defenders to the hoop shouldn't it be possible that when they actually miss the layup or lose the ball we should be able to fast break against them? But we never do! I've been to 5 game so far this year and watched at least 10 more on TV and I can't remember when we scored on a fast break. Knowing we can run fast breaks has to influence how our opponents attack us and knowing that we don't just encourages the dribble penetration that is killing us.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Feb 21, 2016 13:02:22 GMT -5
You want to know the value of a good point guard(s) and an offense that utilizes them ask yourself this question: "when was the last time the Hoyas scored on a fast break basket"? Since so many of our opponents point guards regularly drive past our defenders to the hoop shouldn't it be possible that when they actually miss the layup or lose the ball we should be able to fast break against them? But we never do! I've been to 5 game so far this year and watched at least 10 more on TV and I can't remember when we scored on a fast break. Knowing we can run fast breaks has to influence how our opponents attack us and knowing that we don't just encourages the dribble penetration that is killing us. As Bilas said, he hasn't seen a team that practices fact breaks less than GU. The point is JT3 does not practice it. I guess he thinks it is instinctual or he runs out of practice time because he is pushing the square peg that is his offense through the round holes that are his players.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 21, 2016 14:14:08 GMT -5
You want to know the value of a good point guard(s) and an offense that utilizes them ask yourself this question: "when was the last time the Hoyas scored on a fast break basket"? Since so many of our opponents point guards regularly drive past our defenders to the hoop shouldn't it be possible that when they actually miss the layup or lose the ball we should be able to fast break against them? But we never do! I've been to 5 game so far this year and watched at least 10 more on TV and I can't remember when we scored on a fast break. Knowing we can run fast breaks has to influence how our opponents attack us and knowing that we don't just encourages the dribble penetration that is killing us. As Bilas said, he hasn't seen a team that practices fact breaks less than GU. The point is JT3 does not practice it. I guess he thinks it is instinctual or he runs out of practice time because he is pushing the square peg that is his offense through the round holes that are his players. I really do think that is DSR, PR. III has constantly talked about wanting to run more this year. Like before every game. So, although Bilas may have been right several years ago when he gave that quote (and all he saw was one practice for crying out loud), I expect it simply isn't the same emphasis year to year. DSR rarely pushes. Tre does. He just isn't good at it. LJ does. We also force basically zero live ball turnovers.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Feb 21, 2016 14:17:21 GMT -5
You want to know the value of a good point guard(s) and an offense that utilizes them ask yourself this question: "when was the last time the Hoyas scored on a fast break basket"? Since so many of our opponents point guards regularly drive past our defenders to the hoop shouldn't it be possible that when they actually miss the layup or lose the ball we should be able to fast break against them? But we never do! I've been to 5 game so far this year and watched at least 10 more on TV and I can't remember when we scored on a fast break. Knowing we can run fast breaks has to influence how our opponents attack us and knowing that we don't just encourages the dribble penetration that is killing us. As Bilas said, he hasn't seen a team that practices fact breaks less than GU. The point is JT3 does not practice it. I guess he thinks it is instinctual or he runs out of practice time because he is pushing the square peg that is his offense through the round holes that are his players. I made the same statement in regards to Bilas on Feb. 1, and this is what rockhoya responded with agreement from aristides: "It was one practice. During preseason. Three years ago. Hardly gives any insight into the current practice balance..." rockhoya (Feb 1, 2016 at 6:09pm) When watching the games my eyes are seeing what you and drquigley is seeing....this team does not run a fast break effectively. Maybe rockhoya knows something that we don't know or Jay Bilas doesn't know?
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,297
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Post by prhoya on Feb 21, 2016 14:45:25 GMT -5
As Bilas said, he hasn't seen a team that practices fact breaks less than GU. The point is JT3 does not practice it. I guess he thinks it is instinctual or he runs out of practice time because he is pushing the square peg that is his offense through the round holes that are his players. I really do think that is DSR, PR. III has constantly talked about wanting to run more this year. Like before every game. So, although Bilas may have been right several years ago when he gave that quote (and all he saw was one practice for crying out loud), I expect it simply isn't the same emphasis year to year. DSR rarely pushes. Tre does. He just isn't good at it. LJ does. We also force basically zero live ball turnovers. Tre does not. He pushes to the FT line and backs out to the side.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 21, 2016 16:02:58 GMT -5
I really do think that is DSR, PR. III has constantly talked about wanting to run more this year. Like before every game. So, although Bilas may have been right several years ago when he gave that quote (and all he saw was one practice for crying out loud), I expect it simply isn't the same emphasis year to year. DSR rarely pushes. Tre does. He just isn't good at it. LJ does. We also force basically zero live ball turnovers. Tre does not. He pushes to the FT line and backs out to the side. Exactly. He pushes hard up the court whenever possible. If it isn't there he does precisely what you would want -- push to the foul line and look to set things up (or a quick open shot). He just isn't very good at it and, so, he may be a bit (appropriately) conservative. Id also note that the things that make us not particularly good on offense generally (lack of quickness, inability to beat our man) hurt us on the break. Other teams will push a 2v2 or 3v3, but we aren't ever really at an advantage in those spots. Again, that's not just a lack of a quick PG, but also a lack of quickness to beat a man by filling the lane or off a first pass / secondary break. But the point is that it isn't a philosophical issue with III. He wants them to push. There's a difference between not wanting to do something and not being very good at it. I do think there have been years it has been philosophical. And those years have been frustrating to many (including me), but they also are usually years we are very good in the half-court, so it is at least defensible strategically.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 22, 2016 9:55:03 GMT -5
Tre does not. He pushes to the FT line and backs out to the side. Exactly. He pushes hard up the court whenever possible. If it isn't there he does precisely what you would want -- push to the foul line and look to set things up (or a quick open shot). He just isn't very good at it and, so, he may be a bit (appropriately) conservative. Id also note that the things that make us not particularly good on offense generally (lack of quickness, inability to beat our man) hurt us on the break. Other teams will push a 2v2 or 3v3, but we aren't ever really at an advantage in those spots. Again, that's not just a lack of a quick PG, but also a lack of quickness to beat a man by filling the lane or off a first pass / secondary break. But the point is that it isn't a philosophical issue with III. He wants them to push. There's a difference between not wanting to do something and not being very good at it. I do think there have been years it has been philosophical. And those years have been frustrating to many (including me), but they also are usually years we are very good in the half-court, so it is at least defensible strategically. So, just think if we had like three TRUE point guards? Look at NOVA haha.. two true point guards on the court at one time, then here comes Hart, Booth etc. PUSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH IT TRE
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 22, 2016 9:56:38 GMT -5
As Bilas said, he hasn't seen a team that practices fact breaks less than GU. The point is JT3 does not practice it. I guess he thinks it is instinctual or he runs out of practice time because he is pushing the square peg that is his offense through the round holes that are his players. I made the same statement in regards to Bilas on Feb. 1, and this is what rockhoya responded with agreement from aristides: "It was one practice. During preseason. Three years ago. Hardly gives any insight into the current practice balance..." rockhoya (Feb 1, 2016 at 6:09pm) When watching the games my eyes are seeing what you and drquigley is seeing....this team does not run a fast break effectively. Maybe rockhoya knows something that we don't know or Jay Bilas doesn't know? Get you a couple of true point guards and watch what happens.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 22, 2016 9:58:52 GMT -5
You want to know the value of a good point guard(s) and an offense that utilizes them ask yourself this question: "when was the last time the Hoyas scored on a fast break basket"? Since so many of our opponents point guards regularly drive past our defenders to the hoop shouldn't it be possible that when they actually miss the layup or lose the ball we should be able to fast break against them? But we never do! I've been to 5 game so far this year and watched at least 10 more on TV and I can't remember when we scored on a fast break. Knowing we can run fast breaks has to influence how our opponents attack us and knowing that we don't just encourages the dribble penetration that is killing us. This is why we need to recruit at least true point guards!
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gunny
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by gunny on Feb 22, 2016 9:58:58 GMT -5
Glide,
I am confused, what is your position on having point guards? The past 20 posts have confused me.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 22, 2016 10:12:51 GMT -5
Need great guard play to win NUF SAID GO HOYAS
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Feb 22, 2016 10:55:37 GMT -5
Do not disagree with the oft-stated need for a true point guard. However, if that was the only problem for this team, I am convinced they would still be considered a NCAA tournament team. What about the lack of rebounding and in particular the number of offensive rebounds given up to other teams. This team is lacking in having a true power forward. Only Derrickson comes close and he is still very young and learning. The others playing the position have been Copeland and Cameron, neither of whom has the instinct or the build to play underneath and defend against the bigger power forwards on other teams. Additionally, this team is deficient at almost every position in passing skills, particularly with respect to entry passes. Only one of the two posts is suited for the offense the team runs, as Hayes may not have attempted a single shot this season from beyond 5 feet and therefore presents no threat from distance. Govan, like Derrickson, is still very young and learning to deal with the defenses he faces in college.
Finally, the team lacks a "consistent" outside shooter, which is a deadly flaw for a team launching as many 3s as the Hoyas. Peak is shooting the 3 at 37%, Cameron 37%, DSR 35%, Derrickson 36%, Copeland 28% and Tre 31%. Govan is the most accurate at 50%, but takes very few 3pt shots. The impact of those shooting performances is compounded when you consider how many 3s are taken every game, often as the shot clock winds down.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 22, 2016 12:38:49 GMT -5
Need great guard play to win NUF SAID GO HOYAS Why don't they get it Lic? LMAO!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 20:26:24 GMT -5
Do not disagree with the oft-stated need for a true point guard. However, if that was the only problem for this team, I am convinced they would still be considered a NCAA tournament team. What about the lack of rebounding and in particular the number of offensive rebounds given up to other teams. This team is lacking in having a true power forward. Only Derrickson comes close and he is still very young and learning. The others playing the position have been Copeland and Cameron, neither of whom has the instinct or the build to play underneath and defend against the bigger power forwards on other teams. Additionally, this team is deficient at almost every position in passing skills, particularly with respect to entry passes. Only one of the two posts is suited for the offense the team runs, as Hayes may not have attempted a single shot this season from beyond 5 feet and therefore presents no threat from distance. Govan, like Derrickson, is still very young and learning to deal with the defenses he faces in college. Finally, the team lacks a "consistent" outside shooter, which is a deadly flaw for a team launching as many 3s as the Hoyas. Peak is shooting the 3 at 37%, Cameron 37%, DSR 35%, Derrickson 36%, Copeland 28% and Tre 31%. Govan is the most accurate at 50%, but takes very few 3pt shots. The impact of those shooting performances is compounded when you consider how many 3s are taken every game, often as the shot clock winds down. We have decent 3 point shooters. The problem is that almost all of our 3 point attempts are contested. If we had better penetration and better passing, we would have more uncontested 3 pointed attempts and our success rate would improve (at least in my opinion)
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 23, 2016 14:36:31 GMT -5
Do not disagree with the oft-stated need for a true point guard. However, if that was the only problem for this team, I am convinced they would still be considered a NCAA tournament team. What about the lack of rebounding and in particular the number of offensive rebounds given up to other teams. This team is lacking in having a true power forward. Only Derrickson comes close and he is still very young and learning. The others playing the position have been Copeland and Cameron, neither of whom has the instinct or the build to play underneath and defend against the bigger power forwards on other teams. Additionally, this team is deficient at almost every position in passing skills, particularly with respect to entry passes. Only one of the two posts is suited for the offense the team runs, as Hayes may not have attempted a single shot this season from beyond 5 feet and therefore presents no threat from distance. Govan, like Derrickson, is still very young and learning to deal with the defenses he faces in college. Finally, the team lacks a "consistent" outside shooter, which is a deadly flaw for a team launching as many 3s as the Hoyas. Peak is shooting the 3 at 37%, Cameron 37%, DSR 35%, Derrickson 36%, Copeland 28% and Tre 31%. Govan is the most accurate at 50%, but takes very few 3pt shots. The impact of those shooting performances is compounded when you consider how many 3s are taken every game, often as the shot clock winds down. Here's some good reading about what point guards do... it's Ulis, but he's as true a floor general as you can get. www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article45677337.html
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 23, 2016 15:05:08 GMT -5
The real value of a quality point guard is he will get his team makable shots on almost every trip down the floor. That has been a flaw for this team all year, because too often they go extended runs without scoring, which just puts way too much pressure on their defense. You watch some teams like Duke, who play only average defense at best, and you notice that they get good opportunities to score on most trips down the floor which makes up for the defensive mistakes they make. Way too often Georgetown goes too many consecutive trips with only turnovers and either forced or really difficult shots. A good point guard should make sure that his team gets into the right set and creates a good look for either himself or one of his teammates almost every time down
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 24, 2016 10:18:09 GMT -5
I'm wondering do people understand or know point guard play and it's effectiveness.. Did anyone see Tyler Ulis last night showing how dominant a point guard can be in certain games?
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 24, 2016 10:18:56 GMT -5
The real value of a quality point guard is he will get his team makable shots on almost every trip down the floor. That has been a flaw for this team all year, because too often they go extended runs without scoring, which just puts way too much pressure on their defense. You watch some teams like Duke, who play only average defense at best, and you notice that they get good opportunities to score on most trips down the floor which makes up for the defensive mistakes they make. Way too often Georgetown goes too many consecutive trips with only turnovers and either forced or really difficult shots. A good point guard should make sure that his team gets into the right set and creates a good look for either himself or one of his teammates almost every time down I THINK YOU AND I ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT KNOW THIS LOL.. GREAT POINT!!!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 24, 2016 11:00:12 GMT -5
I'm wondering do people understand or know point guard play and it's effectiveness.. Did anyone see Tyler Ulis last night showing how dominant a point guard can be in certain games? Glide, we understand point guards. But, I think using it as a panacea that will remedy all of the ills facing Georgetown basketball is misguided. I have long advocated for DSR not to play point guard, and for him to play off ball. I also think Tre Campbell's generally weak play this year has been a hindrance. Would we be better with somebody like Tyler Ullis? Of course. And I don't see a problem with JT3 and Georgetown trying to recruit players like that, though they have tried unsuccessfully in recent years. But, I firmly believe the fact that this year's team is performing poorly is not because of a lack of a point guard, and more because our players are not performing to expectations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 14:35:54 GMT -5
Let me respectfully disagree with you Hoyasaxa2003. It appears that essentially NONE of our players are performing up to expectations except Bradley Hayes who has performed better than expected. Why is that?? Why are almost all of our players performing poorly. Even at their worst, why are we losing to teams with inferior talent?? I do think it goes back to the point guard position. With a guard who can run the team, penetrate and pass, our players would get more uncontested shots and they suddenly look better and their made percentage goes up. At any rate that is what I think.
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