nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by nychoya3 on Dec 30, 2015 13:52:18 GMT -5
We've been over this a million times, but at no point during the JT3 era has guard play been the weakness of the team, and it's generally been our biggest strength. At least until this year.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Dec 30, 2015 14:13:08 GMT -5
The Hoyas are not known for developing guards under JTIII. Given that only one Georgetown guard has been drafted in the last 26 years, this is not a situation unique to coach Thompson. True.... JTII resigned in 1999 And did get Iverson, Williams, Brown and others to the NBA. Isn't the failure of the last 2 regimes since 1999 to develop NBA talented guards?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 14:41:33 GMT -5
Given that only one Georgetown guard has been drafted in the last 26 years, this is not a situation unique to coach Thompson. True.... JTII resigned in 1999 And did get Iverson, Williams, Brown and others to the NBA. Isn't the failure of the last 2 regimes since 1999 to develop NBA talented guards? Of the above list you provided what players do you feel match the nba profile at their position? Which I kids do you feel would have been pros if they went to another school?
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Dec 30, 2015 14:49:00 GMT -5
True.... JTII resigned in 1999 And did get Iverson, Williams, Brown and others to the NBA. Isn't the failure of the last 2 regimes since 1999 to develop NBA talented guards? Of the above list you provided what players do you feel match the nba profile at their position? Which I kids do you feel would have been pros if they went to another school? I think Wright and Starks would have benefited from a more up tempo, point guard centric offense.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Dec 30, 2015 14:57:13 GMT -5
Of the above list you provided what players do you feel match the nba profile at their position? Which I kids do you feel would have been pros if they went to another school? I think Wright and Starks would have benefited from a more up tempo, point guard centric offense. [Facepalm]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 14:57:40 GMT -5
Of the above list you provided what players do you feel match the nba profile at their position? Which I kids do you feel would have been pros if they went to another school? I think Wright and Starks would have benefited from a more up tempo, point guard centric offense. OK cool I guess but Did u answer either question??
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Dec 30, 2015 15:08:20 GMT -5
I think Wright and Starks would have benefited from a more up tempo, point guard centric offense. [Facepalm] Thanks for the feedback... I knew u would show sooner or later.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Dec 30, 2015 15:14:25 GMT -5
I think Wright and Starks would have benefited from a more up tempo, point guard centric offense. OK cool I guess but Did u answer either question?? I thought I did... Both of these guys could get to the rim off the bounce. I think if they were in more traditional offense it would have enhanced their numbers and showcased their skills more as a facilitator to create for others with the dribble on drives and dishes.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 30, 2015 15:23:25 GMT -5
First of all, Wright did get to the NBA (albeit for a short 10 day period). The very fact that Wright got to the NBA in any capacity indicates that NBA teams and scouts were looking at him. If he was good enough for the NBA, he'd be playing there.
The same goes for Starks. They didn't make the NBA because they simply were not good enough. That doesn't mean they were bad college players - in fact, both were high quality college players.
You don't necessarily need NBA talent at guard to do well in the college game. Our Final Four era team did quite well with Jon Wallace, an excellent college guard, but one that never really had a chance playing in the NBA. Generally, you do need NBA talent to get far in the NCAA tournament, and our last team with multiple 1st round quality players did make the Final Four. We haven't had that type of talent since. We've had a lot of "potential" players, and we had Monroe in 2010 and Porter in 2013, but one NBA quality player isn't necessarily enough (that being said, arguably both the 2010 and 2013 teams could've gone farther in the tournament).
Look at the last several champions, and show me one that had no obvious NBA players. You'd have to go back fairly far.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Dec 30, 2015 15:36:28 GMT -5
First of all, Wright did get to the NBA (albeit for a short 10 day period). The very fact that Wright got to the NBA in any capacity indicates that NBA teams and scouts were looking at him. If he was good enough for the NBA, he'd be playing there. The same goes for Starks. They didn't make the NBA because they simply were not good enough. That doesn't mean they were bad college players - in fact, both were high quality college players. You don't necessarily need NBA talent at guard to do well in the college game. Our Final Four era team did quite well with Jon Wallace, an excellent college guard, but one that never really had a chance playing in the NBA. Generally, you do need NBA talent to get far in the NCAA tournament, and our last team with multiple 1st round quality players did make the Final Four. We haven't had that type of talent since. We've had a lot of "potential" players, and we had Monroe in 2010 and Porter in 2013, but one NBA quality player isn't necessarily enough (that being said, arguably both the 2010 and 2013 teams could've gone farther in the tournament). Look at the last several champions, and show me one that had no obvious NBA players. You'd have to go back fairly far. I think the 2012 team was better than the 2010 team. 2010 Greg Monroe, Hollis Thompson, Chris Wright NBA'ers 2012 Otto Porter, Hollis Thompson, Henry Sims NBA'ers (also got further in NCAA's)
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 30, 2015 15:37:16 GMT -5
OK cool I guess but Did u answer either question?? I thought I did... Both of these guys could get to the rim off the bounce. I think if they were in more traditional offense it would have enhanced their numbers and showcased their skills more as a facilitator to create for others with the dribble on drives and dishes. Jiminy Christmas. Markel WAS in a guard-centric offense, especially his senior year. All we did was have him and DSR play off each other. That was all we could do.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Dec 30, 2015 15:39:30 GMT -5
OK cool I guess but Did u answer either question?? I thought I did... Both of these guys could get to the rim off the bounce. I think if they were in more traditional offense it would have enhanced their numbers and showcased their skills more as a facilitator to create for others with the dribble on drives and dishes. Did you even watch the team in Starks' last season? The team was a total wasteland on the inside (after the Smith suspension) and Starks had the ball in his hands CONSTANTLY. He used the most possessions and took the most shots. That was probably the most PG-driven team that JTIII has ever had. He had plenty of opportunity to show what he could do with the ball in his hands. At the end of the day, he was undersized, too slow, a subpar defender, and a relatively poor passer for a PG. You could let Markel run the point for last year's Kentucky team and he still wasn't going to sniff the NBA. Likewise, much of the same analysis applies for Wright. Wright was a much better passer and distributor at the PG position. Because of this, he did sniff the NBA. But again, a bit too small, a step too slow, a poor defender, and a mediocre shooter. He was also a TO machine for most of his career. If you're going to make it in the NBA as a 6' nothing PG, you better have the speed and passing ability of someone like Ty Lawson. Neither of these players would have had any better shot at the NBA if they were in a more "traditional" offense (even though the offense in both players' senior seasons was pretty traditional). I'm sure after this season you'll add DSR to this list and blame JTIII for not getting him to the league either.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Dec 30, 2015 15:44:55 GMT -5
I thought I did... Both of these guys could get to the rim off the bounce. I think if they were in more traditional offense it would have enhanced their numbers and showcased their skills more as a facilitator to create for others with the dribble on drives and dishes. Jiminy Christmas. Markel WAS in a guard-centric offense, especially his senior year. All we did was have him and DSR play off each other. That was all we could do. Markel's senior year he was asked to score not facilitate. Do you recall a lot of facilitating going on?
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Dec 30, 2015 15:48:25 GMT -5
Jiminy Christmas. Markel WAS in a guard-centric offense, especially his senior year. All we did was have him and DSR play off each other. That was all we could do. Markel's senior year he was asked to score not facilitate. Do you recall a lot of facilitating going on? Yes I do. I recall Markel averaging 4 assists per game and DSR scoring 17+ per game. I can also remember an ungodly amount of dump-offs to Lubick/Hopkins/Moses resulting in missed layups.
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Post by This Just In on Dec 30, 2015 15:57:00 GMT -5
Markel's senior year he was asked to score not facilitate. Do you recall a lot of facilitating going on? Yes I do. I recall Markel averaging 4 assists per game and DSR scoring 17+ per game. I can also remember an ungodly amount of dump-offs to Lubick/Hopkins/Moses resulting in missed layups. You can have the last word on this.. DSR is avg. 3.7 assists per game this year which is .3 less than Markel his senior year. Does it look like to you that DSR is doing a lot of facilitating this year?
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 30, 2015 16:03:50 GMT -5
Yes I do. I recall Markel averaging 4 assists per game and DSR scoring 17+ per game. I can also remember an ungodly amount of dump-offs to Lubick/Hopkins/Moses resulting in missed layups. You can have the last word on this.. DSR is avg. 3.7 assists per game this year which is .3 less than Markel his senior year. Does it look like to you that DSR is doing a lot of facilitating this year? Markel had the opportunity to facilitate every time down the court. He facilitated a fair amount. He scored a fair amount. Basically, every point we scored in the last three weeks of the season was due to him creating for himself or others (with the rare Jabril kamikaze drive and DSR solo play mixed in). DSR is not as quick as Markel (who wasn't exactly Usain Bolt himself), so DSR simply doesn't beat his man and force help as often. That seems obvious. Its why he struggles against big guards....because he cant shoot over them but still cant penetrate cleanly consistently. Still, he has passed a lot this year....I can think of three wide open PNR plays that weren't finished just off the top of my head. In a week of silly arguments, this may take the cake. I sometimes don't know if people actually watch the games.
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Post by This Just In on Dec 30, 2015 16:05:12 GMT -5
Markel's senior year he was asked to score not facilitate. Do you recall a lot of facilitating going on? Yes I do. I recall Markel averaging 4 assists per game and DSR scoring 17+ per game. I can also remember an ungodly amount of dump-offs to Lubick/Hopkins/Moses resulting in missed layups. Johnny, I'll give us this... We found some common ground...HAL did miss a lot of shots and fouled even more.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Dec 30, 2015 16:05:50 GMT -5
Yes I do. I recall Markel averaging 4 assists per game and DSR scoring 17+ per game. I can also remember an ungodly amount of dump-offs to Lubick/Hopkins/Moses resulting in missed layups. You can have the last word on this.. DSR is avg. 3.7 assists per game this year which is .3 less than Markel his senior year. You're moving the goalposts again. I got sucked in once, I'm not getting sucked in here. This has nothing to do with DSR.
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Post by This Just In on Dec 30, 2015 16:08:52 GMT -5
You can have the last word on this.. DSR is avg. 3.7 assists per game this year which is .3 less than Markel his senior year. Does it look like to you that DSR is doing a lot of facilitating this year? Markel had the opportunity to facilitate every time down the court. He facilitated a fair amount. He scored a fair amount. Basically, every point we scored in the last three weeks of the season was due to him creating for himself or others (with the rare Jabril kamikaze drive and DSR solo play mixed in). DSR is not as quick as Markel (who wasn't exactly Usain Bolt himself), so DSR simply doesn't beat his man and force help as often. That seems obvious. Its why he struggles against big guards....because he cant shoot over them but still cant penetrate cleanly consistently. Still, he has passed a lot this year....I can think of three wide open PNR plays that weren't finished just off the top of my head. In a week of silly arguments, this may take the cake. I sometimes don't know if people actually watch the games. No reason to belittle.. It is okay if people disagree.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 30, 2015 16:32:49 GMT -5
And did get Iverson, Williams, Brown and others to the NBA. Brown? Fred didn't make it, neither did Joey. Either Williams (Reggie or Jerome) was a forward.
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