AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,130
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Post by AltoSaxa on Jan 23, 2017 12:05:38 GMT -5
Appears HoyaTalk has reached equipoise vis a vis JTIII's future at Georgetown. In response to those who feel that the administration will not make a change some alumni want the program's demise to accelerate to force the administration's hand. Their fear is that we muddle in the bottom one-third of the BE for years to come. If JTIII cannot land some more recruits for next year I can certainly can't argue with their point of view. We need high school recruits not patchwork transfers used to fill in gaps left by his inability to adapt to the new college landscape of point-guard oriented offenses. Despite a new freshman point, with LJ's likely departure, we are at least looking perhaps '19-20 season for a rebound and that's provided he can recruit some kids who play fundamentally solid basketball and do not transfer.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Jan 23, 2017 12:10:11 GMT -5
It really comes down to the number of mulligans that JT III will receive from the GU administration. Some people on this board believe that he has "earned" an unlimited number of mulligans, while others feel that he had already exhausted his "earned" supply of mulligans several seasons ago. Other than speculating on when the GU administration might decide to act, one really has to wonder about the other side of the contractual relationship, which is JT III himself. He is obviously not unaware of the team's lack of success, but so far has not really commented on it in regard to his own coaching situation (unlike Alford last year at UCLA) or even publicly taken primary personal responsibility for the downward spiral of GU basketball. How much longer will he continue to ignore the big elephant in the room? He can ignore it because he isn't asked about it by local reporters. It's weird because even if I was still in the business I would have some slight trepidation about it because of my own relationship with Big John and not wanting to burn that bridge but it seems as if everyone who covers the team is hesitant to ask him in public if he is in fact worried about his job security for one reason or another. How many reporters actually cover this team anymore? I'm not sure JT3 has many (if any) relationships with local reporters the way his dad once did. The fan base is relatively tiny in the DC metro area at this point, to the point where local papers can justifiably ignore what's been going on. I think the Svrluga column was the last we'll see of anything more than obligatory game coverage until the season ends, when we may get a few thumbsuckers on the program and JT3's future. We are essentially off the radar at this point. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 12:13:27 GMT -5
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Jan 23, 2017 12:19:53 GMT -5
Around the same number as before, but JT2 still has influence in the media. He was also in radio and still does games I believe.
He is a legend in DC on a lot of levels.
Even the Svrluga had a respectful tone to it.
Isn't JT2 at press conferences too for home games?
Most folks aren't going to press that issue.
JT2 has too much clout.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jan 23, 2017 13:06:59 GMT -5
I pray that GU is not thinking about its basketball program from a business perspective...it is at that point that we become like everyone else, and I hope that never happens. I am okay with taking some hits to the jaw to accomplish that objective. What objective are you talking about? The Administration and the Athletic Dept. already look the other way when we have some of, if not, the lowest APR score in the Big East. In that sense, "we become like everyone else" is more like we are worse than our peers. 4ever, are you going to join them in looking the other way? |
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,666
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Post by guru on Jan 23, 2017 13:11:20 GMT -5
I pray that GU is not thinking about its basketball program from a business perspective...it is at that point that we become like everyone else, and I hope that never happens. I am okay with taking some hits to the jaw to accomplish that objective. What in the world?  I pay thousands of dollars for season tickets. The coach is making millions coaching this team. It IS a business. Do you really not see this? |
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3xhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,173
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Post by 3xhoya on Jan 23, 2017 13:39:13 GMT -5
I think the Hoyas can continue to follow Ivy League ideals and compete in the Big East, and I will continue to feel that way unless and until I see a real pattern- i.e., five years or more- to prove otherwise. The Hoyas have done so for decades and have been lauded in many circles for that. Suddenly, they experience two (not ten) losing seasons, and the philosophy must be abandoned? With all due respect I do not buy that and I hope that they stick with the traditional model of Georgetown basketball. The problem with this line of thinking is that JTIII is currently failing his players. Yes, he helps to develop them as an overall person according to the Jesuit ideals but that is only 50% of his role. Each and every player on the team also committed to Georgetown to develop their on the court talent as well. I would be willing to bet the majority of the players have aspirations of playing professionally (whether that be in the NBA or Europe) and the program is not doing a very good job of helping them to develop their skills at this point. This is evidenced by our transfer rate. They also expect to win. It is not mutually exclusive to develop them both as a person and as a basketball player. As has been stated on this board multiple times there are plenty of people who would be able to do this. It is the administrations job to ensure the program is meeting all of its goals and we can not just strip winning out of the equation. Plenty of programs are able to run a clean program while competing. |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 23, 2017 13:55:46 GMT -5
I pray that GU is not thinking about its basketball program from a business perspective...it is at that point that we become like everyone else, and I hope that never happens. I am okay with taking some hits to the jaw to accomplish that objective. What in the world? I pay thousands of dollars for season tickets. The coach is making millions coaching this team. It IS a business. Do you really not see this? Not at all- we are in two different universes if you see it as a business. We also are in two different universes if you are happier with the experience of being a Hoya fan if we are 30-3 as opposed to 3-30. Do not get me wrong- I will take the 30-3 any day, but I am just as happy and proud both ways. If you see it that way and really are dissatisfied, I think the play is to vote with your feet and stop the financial support. You should not support something voluntarily if you do not like the way it is being run, and I have the utmost respect for that. |
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 23, 2017 13:59:13 GMT -5
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Post by dogfromduckhunt on Jan 23, 2017 14:04:41 GMT -5
Excusing our program's performance based on an idealistic notion that we are handicapped by an obligation to do things the "right way" while all other programs that we compete against have some inherently different way of operating is incredibly naive and pollyanna. There are a number of other schools that develop their players as both athletes and men, many of which are far more successful with their on-the-court results. On the flip side, we are a lot more like your typical major program with respect to the players that we target and recruit than we are like an Ivy League school or any other program with excessively-restrictive admittance requirements for athletes.
JTIII's failures are his own, and giving him extra credit for some sort of intangible "good guy / clean program" bonus is simply a homer's way of trying to rationalize the fact that he sucks at his job lately and is showing no signs of improving. Operating a clean program should be a minimum expectation, not a substitute for fielding an even moderately competent or successful team, and there are numerous coaches that could meet that minimum requirement while not competing for last place in the Big East at a school with more inherent advantages than almost everyone else in the conference.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 23, 2017 14:05:30 GMT -5
Today isn't the day to make this argument, the team had 22 assists on 28 made fg's.. We had 20 asists on 28 fg's made the last time we played them. Shot at least 50% too. And who took the majority of the shots? Peak and Pryor. When you have a well-run offense,it is not just the assists. That doesn't tell the whole story. They have guys who can disrupt a defense. We don't. That is also part of the facilitator's job. They had 49 FT attempts vs our 14 FT attempts. Similar thing happened in the 1st game we played them. Their 38 FT attempts vs. 23 FT attempts. We couldn't handle their offensive execution. Especially in crunch time. That is part of the reason why in the 2nd half they were able to pull away with the victory. Shouldn't Peak & Pryor get the majority of the shot attempts? Not sure how that's an issue.. Hayes had 3 assists alone that led to lay-ups, those aren't easy looks in your view? Free throws have as much to do with offensive scheme, than physical ability.. Macura & Sumner attacked all game, same with Bluitte.. The book is out on how to defend Peak & Pryor, that's why the amount of FTA's has gone down since BE play started.. Peak being dinged up doesn't help either.. Gtowns defense is poor, that we agree on.. |
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
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Post by alleninxis on Jan 23, 2017 14:11:46 GMT -5
It's time for change. Period.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 23, 2017 14:16:23 GMT -5
What in the world? I pay thousands of dollars for season tickets. The coach is making millions coaching this team. It IS a business. Do you really not see this? Not at all- we are in two different universes if you see it as a business. We also are in two different universes if you are happier with the experience of being a Hoya fan if we are 30-3 as opposed to 3-30. Do not get me wrong- I will take the 30-3 any day, but I am just as happy and proud both ways. If you see it that way and really are dissatisfied, I think the play is to vote with your feet and stop the financial support. You should not support something voluntarily if you do not like the way it is being run, and I have the utmost respect for that. Yeah, I'm happier when the Hoyas are 30-3 v 3-30. Why aren't you? Why do you care so little about Georgetown as an institution and Georgetown as a basketball program that you don't care if the school's flagship athletic program is well run and successful? |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 23, 2017 14:21:25 GMT -5
Not at all- we are in two different universes if you see it as a business. We also are in two different universes if you are happier with the experience of being a Hoya fan if we are 30-3 as opposed to 3-30. Do not get me wrong- I will take the 30-3 any day, but I am just as happy and proud both ways. If you see it that way and really are dissatisfied, I think the play is to vote with your feet and stop the financial support. You should not support something voluntarily if you do not like the way it is being run, and I have the utmost respect for that. Yeah, I'm happier when the Hoyas are 30-3 v 3-30. Why aren't you? Why do you care so little about Georgetown as an institution and Georgetown as a basketball program that you don't care if the school's flagship athletic program is well run and successful? I think it can be well run but not have a good record. I do not think it somehow reflects poorly on the school that, goodness forbid, the basketball team did not win enough games. |
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hoyarad
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 521
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Post by hoyarad on Jan 23, 2017 14:37:26 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm happier when the Hoyas are 30-3 v 3-30. Why aren't you? Why do you care so little about Georgetown as an institution and Georgetown as a basketball program that you don't care if the school's flagship athletic program is well run and successful? I think it can be well run but not have a good record. I do not think it somehow reflects poorly on the school that, goodness forbid, the basketball team did not win enough games. I'm confounded by this line of thinking but kudos for your consistency. |
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 23, 2017 14:40:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm happier when the Hoyas are 30-3 v 3-30. Why aren't you? Why do you care so little about Georgetown as an institution and Georgetown as a basketball program that you don't care if the school's flagship athletic program is well run and successful? I think it can be well run but not have a good record. I do not think it somehow reflects poorly on the school that, goodness forbid, the basketball team did not win enough games. I don't know of anyone besides you who doesn't think the team needs to be good at basketball to be well run. Winning games isn't the sole requirement for a college program to be well run, but it is a requirement. Also, the school being willing to accept mediocre to bad seasons year after year shows that the school doesn't care about maintaining the legacy and reputation of Georgetown basketball, one of its flagship programs, which is a disservice to the Thompsons and all of the players who built a program that did things the right way, educated its players and won basketball games. It's also a disservice to all of the people around the program who put in time and effort to make Georgetown basketball better. No one would would say the law school is well run if it started sliding in the law school rankings. Not sure why you wouldn't hold the basketball team to the same standard. Not to mention that Georgetown basketball is an important part of the student and alumni experience and a horrible team that no one wants to talk about or watch makes being a Hoya worse. Look at this talkboard if you'd like an example. Lot more fun when the Hoyas are winning. Also, it's not following in the tradition of cura personalis if none of the players ever develop. But if you think a well run program doesn't do anything to help its players pursue their goals in their chosen field, well, I don't know what to say to you. |
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 23, 2017 14:47:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm happier when the Hoyas are 30-3 v 3-30. Why aren't you? Why do you care so little about Georgetown as an institution and Georgetown as a basketball program that you don't care if the school's flagship athletic program is well run and successful? I think it can be well run but not have a good record. I do not think it somehow reflects poorly on the school that, goodness forbid, the basketball team did not win enough games. What makes you even say that it's well run? We've had several transfers the last few years, scholarship players that ride the pine almost exclusively, and we were all but forced to pick up a 5th year player like Pryor for this year. Pryor is basically a hired gun to win games. Im not saying that is wrong, Im just curious as to what you are pointing to when you say it's well run - that we dont have any serious violations? That's not exactly a great bar. |
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bigskyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,103
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Post by bigskyhoya on Jan 23, 2017 14:48:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm happier when the Hoyas are 30-3 v 3-30. Why aren't you? Why do you care so little about Georgetown as an institution and Georgetown as a basketball program that you don't care if the school's flagship athletic program is well run and successful? I think it can be well run but not have a good record. I do not think it somehow reflects poorly on the school that, goodness forbid, the basketball team did not win enough games. You are either a contrarian bemused by the Board's attention to your outlier opinion or a true altruist. In either case, I am convinced that you will not be swayed so I, for one, will cease trying. On one thing we agree. It may makes sense for those of us frustrated with the team's downward spiral to stop supporting the team financially and otherwise. This may be the only way to get the administration's attention because, unlike you, they know their college basketball team is a business. |
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,912
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 23, 2017 14:50:53 GMT -5
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 23, 2017 15:05:09 GMT -5
I think it can be well run but not have a good record. I do not think it somehow reflects poorly on the school that, goodness forbid, the basketball team did not win enough games. What makes you even say that it's well run? We've had several transfers the last few years, scholarship players that ride the pine almost exclusively, and we were all but forced to pick up a 5th year player like Pryor for this year. Pryor is basically a hired gun to win games. Im not saying that is wrong, Im just curious as to what you are pointing to when you say it's well run - that we dont have any serious violations? That's not exactly a great bar. Serious violations? Have GU basketball ever had ANY violations? Serious allegations of impropriety regarding recruiting or otherwise? |
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I pay thousands of dollars for season tickets. The coach is making millions coaching this team. It IS a business. Do you really not see this?
