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Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 17, 2017 19:52:59 GMT -5
www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/Just a bit of context, scroll to see all the Big East draft picks...keep going...keep going...there you go Sumner at 24 is the first. Hart follows at 30, and then LJ at 60. And...that's it. No lottery picks, none. We are past "count the pros" with one-and-dones congregating to 2-3 teams or choosing other paths. Gonzaga-Villanova is a plausible final this year. The game is exactly where it needs to be for small Catholic schools focused on basketball to have a chance to win. It was a scenario we could only dream of 10 years ago. Teams of good college players are growing together over 3-4 years coached by a figure with a long-term vision that all the players want to be a part of.
And now that the opportunity is here, we can't take advantage of it. Lololololololol. Villanova wins one title and suddenly college basketball success is only through four year players and father figures. |
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richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by richfame on Jan 17, 2017 19:56:36 GMT -5
They love their coach more. And no matter how much "class" is involved, firing his son without Pops on board will have repercussions. But again, the way we are going, those may be significantly outweighed by the need for a change. I see substantial risk on all sides that's worth thinking about. Stick with III and you basically stick with a coach that's clearly in a rut at a program where we clearly need a new set of eyes looking at the issue. Fire III without getting JTII on board and you lose a pivotal connection to the program's past. Heck, our whole new athletic facility is built around that past. Fire III but kiss JTIIs ring and the process and you may not get meaningful independence for the program. You risk having yet another guy in the program with JTII, the legend, looking over his shoulder for every mistake. We talk a lot less about this third risk, but I see it as well. My inclination is that a change is now appropriate for all parties. I think anyone looking at the program can see we need a fresh look at everything, from recruiting to development to strategy. Frankly, I think JTIII would benefit from a change of scenery, through either coaching elsewhere or assuming another role in the University. Bottom line for me, though--the program is at a turning point, either way. There are big risks regardless of what we do. And looking at the University right now, I rather doubt there is someone at Georgetown with the pure force of will to handle this situation effectively. DFW was on to something yesterday when he noted the fact that our athletics department doesn't really have a "winning culture." If we had athletic leadership that could handle this situation well, there would probably be more success in our other programs. I hope I'm wrong, though--I would hate to see us lose the prominence of our basketball program. It's such a joy to support year in, year out. Question : I notice awful attendance at Verizon home games. If we continue to show so awful can Verizon refuse to have us and open a building, turn on lights, heat and concessions if turnout is minimal? Can we be forced to play at McDonough? |
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 17, 2017 19:56:39 GMT -5
How many other schools do you hear about having HOF alumni come back summer after summer to work out against current players and other alumni, and to see their coach? Don't kid yourself into thinking it will not be a factor. That's the thing, it's a very select few. Most of the basketball alumni have no allegiance to JTII. JTII, yes, but not JTIII. If one of my old coaches, whom I idolized, had a son that was running the program that I helped build into the ground, I certainly wouldn't be backing the kid. |
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bamahoya11
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bamahoya11 on Jan 17, 2017 20:30:16 GMT -5
I see substantial risk on all sides that's worth thinking about. Stick with III and you basically stick with a coach that's clearly in a rut at a program where we clearly need a new set of eyes looking at the issue. Fire III without getting JTII on board and you lose a pivotal connection to the program's past. Heck, our whole new athletic facility is built around that past. Fire III but kiss JTIIs ring and the process and you may not get meaningful independence for the program. You risk having yet another guy in the program with JTII, the legend, looking over his shoulder for every mistake. We talk a lot less about this third risk, but I see it as well. My inclination is that a change is now appropriate for all parties. I think anyone looking at the program can see we need a fresh look at everything, from recruiting to development to strategy. Frankly, I think JTIII would benefit from a change of scenery, through either coaching elsewhere or assuming another role in the University. Bottom line for me, though--the program is at a turning point, either way. There are big risks regardless of what we do. And looking at the University right now, I rather doubt there is someone at Georgetown with the pure force of will to handle this situation effectively. DFW was on to something yesterday when he noted the fact that our athletics department doesn't really have a "winning culture." If we had athletic leadership that could handle this situation well, there would probably be more success in our other programs. I hope I'm wrong, though--I would hate to see us lose the prominence of our basketball program. It's such a joy to support year in, year out. Question : I notice awful attendance at Verizon home games. If we continue to show so awful can Verizon refuse to have us and open a building, turn on lights, heat and concessions if turnout is minimal? Can we be forced to play at McDonough? I doubt that we are likely to be kicked out of verizon so long as we are willing to play our games around all the other entities that use the venue. I have wondered before about the economics of the deal though. The concessions are a far cry from what they once were and, I noticed, after the Butler game I guess they were trying to clear the arena out as quickly as possible. I was hanging around for a few minutes while my wife went to the restroom, and they came by clearing us out of the stands. Nothing else was scheduled, and they were trying to get the workers home. So, it seems like they are trying to keep costs down. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 17, 2017 20:32:58 GMT -5
That's a nice thought. But if III were let go without at least the tacit understanding of Pops, I think his former players would side with him. They may value their Georgetown connections - but they value their relationship with JTII even more.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 17, 2017 21:07:23 GMT -5
I don't think so. They love the school just as much as we do. Everything must and will be done with class. They love their coach more. And no matter how much "class" is involved, firing his son without Pops on board will have repercussions. But again, the way we are going, those may be significantly outweighed by the need for a change. Agree to disagree. Only if it gets nasty will they side with the coach. It will be a decision by committee, including the Thompsons. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 17, 2017 21:12:46 GMT -5
Does the basketball alumni group really exist? From the outside it seems to pale in comparison to other programs with a decent history. How many other schools do you hear about having HOF alumni come back summer after summer to work out against current players and other alumni, and to see their coach? Don't kid yourself into thinking it will not be a factor. Does someone from GU really keep a track of other schools' summer activities? |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 17, 2017 22:43:27 GMT -5
They love their coach more. And no matter how much "class" is involved, firing his son without Pops on board will have repercussions. But again, the way we are going, those may be significantly outweighed by the need for a change. Agree to disagree. Only if it gets nasty will they side with the coach. It will be a decision by committee, including the Thompsons. As long as it does not end up being adversarial, I agree that it can be accomplished smoothly. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 17, 2017 22:46:00 GMT -5
How many other schools do you hear about having HOF alumni come back summer after summer to work out against current players and other alumni, and to see their coach? Don't kid yourself into thinking it will not be a factor. Does someone from GU really keep a track of other schools' summer activities? Not that I have ever heard. But just for example, living in upstate NY, I have never heard nor read of any frequent simmer returns by Syracuse alumni to work out and play against/mentor current players. Can't say I have heard of many other schools doing it, although it isn't something I search out. |
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Jan 17, 2017 22:46:38 GMT -5
Agree to disagree. Only if it gets nasty will they side with the coach. It will be a decision by committee, including the Thompsons. As long as it does not end up being adversarial, I agree that it can be accomplished smoothly. Hypothetically, what would the market for JT3's coaching services look like if he were a free agent? |
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 17, 2017 23:26:35 GMT -5
As long as it does not end up being adversarial, I agree that it can be accomplished smoothly. Hypothetically, what would the market for JT3's coaching services look like if he were a free agent? Hypothetically, it's irrelevant. |
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Jan 17, 2017 23:30:27 GMT -5
Hypothetically, what would the market for JT3's coaching services look like if he were a free agent? Hypothetically, it's irrelevant. Tonight's nominee for unnecessary deleted post of the night... It's relevant in a number of ways. Whether you choose to consider it is another issue entirely. |
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 18, 2017 0:10:03 GMT -5
Hypothetically, it's irrelevant. Tonight's nominee for unnecessary deleted post of the night... It's relevant in a number of ways. Whether you choose to consider it is another issue entirely. Thanks for the compliment. Much appreciated. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 18, 2017 0:36:10 GMT -5
As long as it does not end up being adversarial, I agree that it can be accomplished smoothly. Hypothetically, what would the market for JT3's coaching services look like if he were a free agent? I wasn't thinking coaching, but TV. I think he would be better than Ronnie and more respected than Lavin. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 18, 2017 1:50:00 GMT -5
Hypothetically, what would the market for JT3's coaching services look like if he were a free agent? Hypothetically, I actually think there'd be a good market for JT3. I've said this before and gotten a lot of flack from others here, but JT3's record aside from the last two seasons would eclipse nearly any other coach out there on the market. Yes, it would be a risky hire for other programs in some ways, but the potential upside would make it worth it. I think, if he wanted to, he could easily get a high major job. I'm not sure he'd get the same salary, but I think he'd get plenty. I realize the JT3 haters on here will think this is irrational, but it's not. He's an accomplished coach who has hit a rough patch, but that doesn't mean he's not marketable. As an example, keep in mind that Dave Leitao got rehired after much greater failures than anything JT3 has had. JT3 would be highly marketable and probably one of the biggest names out on the market if he wanted a new job. |
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hoyajinx
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Post by hoyajinx on Jan 18, 2017 6:05:56 GMT -5
Does someone from GU really keep a track of other schools' summer activities? Not that I have ever heard. But just for example, living in upstate NY, I have never heard nor read of any frequent simmer returns by Syracuse alumni to work out and play against/mentor current players. Can't say I have heard of many other schools doing it, although it isn't something I search out. I do like the theory of the alumni coming back and playing with the guys on our roster. It gives Georgetown a good family/support feeling for the guys on the team, I'm sure. But as a practical matter, has it really helped? It's not drawing huge recruits to the school, and with the guys we have, we are more often talking about "regression" year over year than anything else. I'm not trying to be jerk but, aside from that Georgetown feel, has the alumni presence really had any realized on-court effect? Would we be that much worse if they didn't show up during the summer? I can't imagine we would. I like the idea of mentorship, but Georgetown does a pretty good job of crafting fine young women and men who don't have access to these specific alumni. |
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jan 18, 2017 6:56:02 GMT -5
www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/Just a bit of context, scroll to see all the Big East draft picks...keep going...keep going...there you go Sumner at 24 is the first. Hart follows at 30, and then LJ at 60. And...that's it. No lottery picks, none. We are past "count the pros" with one-and-dones congregating to 2-3 teams or choosing other paths. Gonzaga-Villanova is a plausible final this year. The game is exactly where it needs to be for small Catholic schools focused on basketball to have a chance to win. It was a scenario we could only dream of 10 years ago. Teams of good college players are growing together over 3-4 years coached by a figure with a long-term vision that all the players want to be a part of.
And now that the opportunity is here, we can't take advantage of it. Lololololololol. Villanova wins one title and suddenly college basketball success is only through four year players and father figures. Silly. There's no "only" in my statement. Kentucky and Duke are still factories. There are no "Father Figures" either. Coaches and athletic departments need a vision and teams need an identity. We are not a factory and we have no vision or identity. That's why we're lucky to get 8th in a conference led by NBDL and European players. Lol is what the rest of the league is doing at the Hoyas. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 18, 2017 6:56:47 GMT -5
Hypothetically, what would the market for JT3's coaching services look like if he were a free agent? Hypothetically, I actually think there'd be a good market for JT3. I've said this before and gotten a lot of flack from others here, but JT3's record aside from the last two seasons would eclipse nearly any other coach out there on the market. Yes, it would be a risky hire for other programs in some ways, but the potential upside would make it worth it. I think, if he wanted to, he could easily get a high major job. I'm not sure he'd get the same salary, but I think he'd get plenty. I realize the JT3 haters on here will think this is irrational, but it's not. He's an accomplished coach who has hit a rough patch, but that doesn't mean he's not marketable. As an example, keep in mind that Dave Leitao got rehired after much greater failures than anything JT3 has had. JT3 would be highly marketable and probably one of the biggest names out on the market if he wanted a new job. I doubt it, but hypothetically speaking, in your scenario how much would he ask for in terms of compensation? Also, hypothetically speaking, would a person raised in DC and living there for the last decade+ with a summer home in Martha's Vineyard ever consider going to Iowa, Nebraska or similar to coach college bball? |
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Jan 18, 2017 8:52:41 GMT -5
Hypothetically, what would the market for JT3's coaching services look like if he were a free agent? Hypothetically, I actually think there'd be a good market for JT3. I've said this before and gotten a lot of flack from others here, but JT3's record aside from the last two seasons would eclipse nearly any other coach out there on the market. Yes, it would be a risky hire for other programs in some ways, but the potential upside would make it worth it. I think, if he wanted to, he could easily get a high major job. I'm not sure he'd get the same salary, but I think he'd get plenty. I realize the JT3 haters on here will think this is irrational, but it's not. He's an accomplished coach who has hit a rough patch, but that doesn't mean he's not marketable. As an example, keep in mind that Dave Leitao got rehired after much greater failures than anything JT3 has had. JT3 would be highly marketable and probably one of the biggest names out on the market if he wanted a new job. He would be high in demand for an Ivy league job. Major program? Not so much. His recruiting and style of play would be a concern for most major programs. Early NCAA exits and the way the program has bottomed out the last 2 years would shy most major programs away. I think III would go back to the Ivy league. An Ivy league team would scoop him up quick. He dominated the league the last 2 years he was there. III doesn't seem like a media/commentator type guy. He is quite capable of doing it from an analytical perspective, but doesn't seem like a guy who craves the spotlight or likes to be seen. More of a behind the scenes type guy. Much different than Ronny and his father who are more personable and both have the gift of gab. III is a good coach. If he were to take over a major program, I honestly think he would be better off being a way from his Dad and his Dad's influence to get a fresh start. |
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 18, 2017 8:53:14 GMT -5
Hypothetically, I actually think there'd be a good market for JT3. I've said this before and gotten a lot of flack from others here, but JT3's record aside from the last two seasons would eclipse nearly any other coach out there on the market. Yes, it would be a risky hire for other programs in some ways, but the potential upside would make it worth it. I think, if he wanted to, he could easily get a high major job. I'm not sure he'd get the same salary, but I think he'd get plenty. I realize the JT3 haters on here will think this is irrational, but it's not. He's an accomplished coach who has hit a rough patch, but that doesn't mean he's not marketable. As an example, keep in mind that Dave Leitao got rehired after much greater failures than anything JT3 has had. JT3 would be highly marketable and probably one of the biggest names out on the market if he wanted a new job. I doubt it, but hypothetically speaking, in your scenario how much would he ask for in terms of compensation? Also, hypothetically speaking, would a person raised in DC and living there for the last decade+ with a summer home in Martha's Vineyard ever consider going to Iowa, Nebraska or similar to coach college bball? Whether he'd want to go somewhere else to coach is completely unrelated to whether there'd be demand elsewhere for his services, right? If he voluntarily doesn't want to leave the area that's not evidence in any way that he isn't marketable. As for his marketability, I guess I fall somewhere in between the two of you. For sure, he'd be a top, top, top candidate at a high-level mid-majorish program (think an AAC or A-10 school). I think that's the most typical career path -- you regain your reputation by winning somewhere (anywhere) and then go back up to the big boys. But there is plenty of precedent for immediately (or close to immediately) getting a high-major job, usually at a "bad" high-major school. The first name that came to my head was Bruce Weber. Weber had terrific early success at Illinois: four straight NCAAs, including a Final Four. He gets canned after then having two NCAA bids (and no Sweet 16s) in the following five years. Fairly similar career path to JTIII. He immediately gets a job at major college Kansas State (which was actually pretty darned good when they hired him -- Huggins had just left and they'd been to the NCAAs a bunch of years in a row). Weber makes just under $2M per year. The average SEC coach (if you take Calipari out) makes about the same. So...that would be the market for his salary. Less then he makes now, but still a hell of a lot. |
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