GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 17, 2017 9:37:52 GMT -5
Our next 5 non-Depaul/SJU games are: at Xavier, Creighton, at Butler, Seton Hall and at Nova. If the Administration isn't paying attention now, they might want to start. This could get really, really ugly. Like 3-15 ugly.
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bamahoya11
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bamahoya11 on Jan 17, 2017 9:42:04 GMT -5
Our next 5 non-Depaul/SJU games are: at Xavier, Creighton, at Butler, Seton Hall and at Nova. If the Administration isn't paying attention now, they might want to start. This could get really, really ugly. Like 3-15 ugly. I had been quietly looking at this for some time and hoping we would start to build some momentum. But yeah, I think 3-15 or something like it isn't out of the question. Looking at the remaining schedule, it's hard to see a path that yields more than 5 or 6 wins in conference. And that assumes a sweep of DePaul and St. John's plus beating Seton Hall and/or Marquette at home. |
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,537
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 17, 2017 9:48:18 GMT -5
Rock meet bottom. I am done going to games for the year. I can't stomach it anymore. I'll be at the Butler away game because I already set that weekend up. Attendance was awful, effort was worse, and coaching & preparation were non-existent. We are 4-8 the rest of the way is my best guess. Some brief fire thompson cheers last night from students but overall they were pretty solid. There just wasn't anything to cheer about. I agree it is time to stop blaming the students and the fan base for not supporting this group. My daughter and some of her fellow students went to the game last night and were so disgusted they left at halftime. They made the effort to go but did not see anything that gave them any reason to cheer. From what she tells me the student body would love to get behind the program and this team but they have no confidence that the team will do anything to make them proud. Something needs to change if this program is going to regain it's past glory!!! |
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 17, 2017 9:50:04 GMT -5
Rock meet bottom. I am done going to games for the year. I can't stomach it anymore. I'll be at the Butler away game because I already set that weekend up. Attendance was awful, effort was worse, and coaching & preparation were non-existent. We are 4-8 the rest of the way is my best guess. Some brief fire thompson cheers last night from students but overall they were pretty solid. There just wasn't anything to cheer about. I had a whole row to myself lol. |
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 17, 2017 9:51:39 GMT -5
We have some talent. Anyone really think Providence has more talent? Something has to change, this isnt just 1 off year. Yes, Providence has more talent. They also have a good coach. Cooley is a great coach. |
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 17, 2017 9:55:40 GMT -5
They didn't tonight. You don't lose by that much and get spanked at home due to just bad coaching. What was it? They certainly arent 20 points better. And even if you argue the talent level is even, they beat us twice. Something needs to change. I dont think the talent level is so bad thay we can only beat St Johns and Depaul. Cooley always coaches his a&s off. Thank him and team for responding. |
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 17, 2017 10:00:22 GMT -5
How can this school figure it out until they get someone who can build a winning culture. If we lose Peak next year how will we even have a chance at being remotely better than this season even with our PG recruit? I'm not offering a defense of JTIII, just offering the column as an additional view to our collective discussion on the state of the program/JTIII's leadership. I totally agree that we need to institute a winning culture -- I've noted that in a few of the recent game discussions in which our end-of-game performance has made it clear that we don't have a winning culture at the moment. At this point, I haven't thought forward to how we will look next year. A new point guard isn't going to fix all that ails us, LJ or no LJ. And frankly, the column itself doesn't really make me want to go to bat for JTIII's leadership. I do think that firing JTIII is more complicated than some folks make it out to be. The man has made a Final 4 and has won a whole lot of games over his career. As of a couple of years ago, he had one of the longest consecutive streaks with wins over a top 10 team. It's not as easy, I think, to just fire him and replace him with some mid-major coach who has a lot of potential but hasn't really done anything in terms of building sustained post-season success. A lot of the names thrown around on this board don't really get me just enthralled about making a change. As I've said before on the board, though, I'm open to the idea. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that current performance is acceptable. But I'm also not going to just sit here and bash JTIII over and over. I've been clear the program isn't where it needs to be. I expect the staff and the administration to have higher standards for the program. I hope they hold JTIII accountable for the state of the program. But in the meantime, I hope the kids and staff we do have right now find a way to keep winning, and I'll pull for them as long as they're out there. Tremont is #7 in the country in point guard play. A true point guard such as Waters would do the Hoyas wonders. If you heard Jimmy Jackson and Steve Lappas mentioning our inconsistent guard play. |
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deacon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,850
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Post by deacon on Jan 17, 2017 10:00:46 GMT -5
Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse. How is this acceptable on any level? JT2 has remained involved in the program since he "retired". This shouldn't be a shock. I'm fully aware that he has remained involved with the program since his "retirement" but yes I am shocked that a team manager personally relayed his in-game concerns to our coaching staff while we're getting our heads beat in. That's not startling to any one else? |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 17, 2017 10:02:50 GMT -5
No...he is our Abraham...if he wants to convey a message, it should be done.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Jan 17, 2017 10:10:43 GMT -5
JT2 has remained involved in the program since he "retired". This shouldn't be a shock. I'm fully aware that he has remained involved with the program since his "retirement" but yes I am shocked that a team manager personally relayed his in-game concerns to our coaching staff while we're getting our heads beat in. That's not startling to any one else? It's pathetic, especially given that 18 years ago JT2 stepped aside because the game had long since passed him by. Sadly, it's not that startling. |
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bamahoya11
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,831
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Post by bamahoya11 on Jan 17, 2017 10:19:26 GMT -5
JT2 has remained involved in the program since he "retired". This shouldn't be a shock. I'm fully aware that he has remained involved with the program since his "retirement" but yes I am shocked that a team manager personally relayed his in-game concerns to our coaching staff while we're getting our heads beat in. That's not startling to any one else? My rational reaction is to agree with you completely, but my knee jerk reaction when I read this was that this team could use ideas from anyone. Heck, have the managers poll the student section, take suggestions from the audience. |
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hoya1984
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 489
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Post by hoya1984 on Jan 17, 2017 10:20:38 GMT -5
JTIII needs to resign immediately, he has no clue anymore how to play this new brand of basketball. I careless if we lose Waters as a recruit, JTIII completely sucks at his job. I can guarantee you that he has no idea how to use a true PG, because that position does not exist on the Princeton bull crap he runs.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Filo on Jan 17, 2017 10:24:56 GMT -5
Our next 5 non-Depaul/SJU games are: at Xavier, Creighton, at Butler, Seton Hall and at Nova. If the Administration isn't paying attention now, they might want to start. This could get really, really ugly. Like 3-15 ugly. I had been quietly looking at this for some time and hoping we would start to build some momentum. But yeah, I think 3-15 or something like it isn't out of the question. Looking at the remaining schedule, it's hard to see a path that yields more than 5 or 6 wins in conference. And that assumes a sweep of DePaul and St. John's plus beating Seton Hall and/or Marquette at home. I don't see any reason to be optimistic that we will any of the games. SJU at SJU won't be a pushover, and they will be out for revenge. Depaul plays us tough all the time, even when we are playing well. And, SHU and Marquette are clearly better teams than us at this point in the season. The wheels have really fallen off. You can see the frustration on the players' faces and in their body language, and it seems that the Head Coach is completely at a loss as to what to do. He really has no answers. Sad sad sad. What has happened to my Hoyas? |
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Jan 17, 2017 10:32:45 GMT -5
JT2 has remained involved in the program since he "retired". This shouldn't be a shock. I'm fully aware that he has remained involved with the program since his "retirement" but yes I am shocked that a team manager personally relayed his in-game concerns to our coaching staff while we're getting our heads beat in. That's not startling to any one else? No, because if you look at the team right now, it looks like JT2 is coaching the team. The full court press and freestyling by players on offense. Looks like JT2 teams in his last few years when he was coaching (on the sideline). |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 17, 2017 10:37:58 GMT -5
At one of the low (high?) points of his ownership of the Browns, Bill Veeck allowed the fans to dictate Strategy from the stands via a card system.
III has nothing to lose...
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by drquigley on Jan 17, 2017 10:40:52 GMT -5
It's probably my SFS degree talking but watching the Hoyas the last few years reminds me of the controversy surrounding battleships in the 1930's. The Navy establishment refused to see that battleships were becoming obsolete with the creation of naval aviation and aircraft carriers. Despite warnings from Bill Mitchell it took Pearl Harbor to convince them that battleships were just too easy targets for aircraft launched bombers and torpedo boats. Does anyone else see the similarity with today's basketball? Our big men "battleships" have become almost totally irrelevant. The 3 point shot and shot clock have completely changed the game. Pitino saw this first and has used his understanding of it to make a fortune. Those little guards and 6'5" - 6'7" swingmen just blow by the bigs or launch from long range. The game last night was a perfect example. Sadly, even worse disasters await when we play Nova and Creighton (assuming Watson is healthy). Our only success the last few years was when we had Otto Porter doing what guys like Josh Hart does for Nova. I'm sure JT3 sees this but can't get away from what he is most comfortable with. Until we either replace JT3 or start replacing the Hayes' and Govans with more LJ's and Walkers the downward spiral will continue.
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AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by AltoSaxa on Jan 17, 2017 10:44:32 GMT -5
Why would fans be the most critical? I am not saying that to be argumentative or to put down anyone's opinion; that concept just does not compute with me. In my world, fans should be the most patient and supportive, so please help me understand that mindset. Thanks. If JTIII was my financial advisor and was yielding a negative return year over year like his basketball TEAMS and his PROGRAM I would fire him. |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 17, 2017 10:55:25 GMT -5
Perhaps- but it is not finances- it is an intercollegiate athletic team, so those things are not at all the same.
Also, like the stock market, teams and programs go up and down. The long-term results still are favorable for JT III over his tenure. The question is whether there is a real negative trend so as to pull the proverbial investment and incurs the proverbial penalties associated therewith. On that question I believe reasonable minds can differ based upon perceptions of problems, trends, risks, etc.
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AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,130
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Post by AltoSaxa on Jan 17, 2017 11:16:20 GMT -5
Perhaps- but it is not finances- it is an intercollegiate athletic team, so those things are not at all the same. Also, like the stock market, teams and programs go up and down. The long-term results still are favorable for JT III over his tenure. The question is whether there is a real negative trend so as to pull the proverbial investment and incurs the proverbial penalties associated therewith. On that question I believe reasonable minds can differ based upon perceptions of problems, trends, risks, etc. Agree to disagree. The trajectory is downward. Also need to consider alumni pulling donations and not filling Verizon which has impact. With regard to alumni many use the program as part of their social agenda to keep in touch with other alumni and remain connected to the University which is at risk of disappearing. |
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gunny
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by gunny on Jan 17, 2017 11:18:13 GMT -5
Perhaps- but it is not finances- it is an intercollegiate athletic team, so those things are not at all the same. Also, like the stock market, teams and programs go up and down. The long-term results still are favorable for JT III over his tenure. The question is whether there is a real negative trend so as to pull the proverbial investment and incurs the proverbial penalties associated therewith. On that question I believe reasonable minds can differ based upon perceptions of problems, trends, risks, etc. I wish I had your optimism. I know where you stand on this, but it is just hard for me to stomach another year of this before anything is done. I had a chance last night to sit down and watch closely the first half of the Villanova game. The offensive and defensive sets that they run are complete opposites of ours. It really makes we want to root for them in the NCAA tournament, but it is hard for me to do that. Take a recruit to a Villanova game and then take him to a Georgetown game, where is he going to want to go. No question. Unfortunately, this is going to be an evil cycle, we will continue to get lesser recruits and the program will continue to spiral downwards. Something needs changed. We have tried different players. I remember reading on this board last year how DSR was the problem because the ball got stuck in his hands and nothing happened. I would gladly take DSR after watching that disaster last night. Last thought, I think Cooley took it easy on us last night. He has great respect for our program and the Thompsons. I remember him showing up at the event for the Thompson Center. I believe he was the only BE coach there. He is a good guy and a better coach than what we have. Thanks for not running it up on us too bad last night Ed. |
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