guru
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Post by guru on Jan 11, 2017 10:33:56 GMT -5
How can you write such drivel? "If things went a few different ways" we might have won in 2007? "If things went a few different ways" then Butler might have won back to back titles and Villanova might have won in 2009 and have two titles now as well. And thus you are hoisted with the petard of your own dreamy hypothetical. Oh, and if my uncle had t-ts he'd be my aunt. Your hard-nosed optimism is admirable in such bleak times, but by this point in the program's downward spiral (and yes, that's what we are in) you have contorted yourself with such twisted logic to justify your position you'd make a pretzel wince. Would you please chill out? Can't someone have a differing opinion than your relentlessly negative one without being belittled and insulted? Calmer 'n you are |
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 11, 2017 12:54:53 GMT -5
Would you please chill out? Can't someone have a differing opinion than your relentlessly negative one without being belittled and insulted? Calmer 'n you are Ha ha! |
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 11, 2017 13:49:56 GMT -5
Generally, I agree with you. But, Villanova's example really isn't a good one. Yes, they won one championship. But if things went a few different ways maybe we would have won in 2007. I think that winning a championship at the highest level for programs in Georgetown's category (including pretty much every Big East team) is extremely difficult. None of our conference schools regularly recruit one and dones, we don't have coaches with NBA pipelines (like Kentucky), we don't have any blue bloods, and we don't have massive state schools that will fill huge arenas. I mean, there's a reason why aside from Duke (really, the only private school blueblood, unless you want include Syracuse - I won't), only two private schools have won the NCAA championship since 1985. That's more than coincidence, and I think the evolution of the game and recruiting has only accentuated those tendencies. The home-and-home definitely brings it's challenges, but I don't think we can use it or the conference as an excuse. The home-and-home might make it harder to go 17-1 or some crazy record like that, but it doesn't present us from putting out a really good basketball product that's better than the one we've had this season. How about 16-2 the last three years for Nova? Look I'm not a Novaphile, I probably hate them more than most since I attended an Augustinian High School and lots of my friends went to Nova, but Wright and company really seem to have found the winning formula. But it's not a secret formula. Out there for all to see. As pointed out elsewhere on this thread it starts with recruiting. Gotta find those guys who can contribute from day one, improve from year to year and hopefully stay at least 3 years. Also have to adopt a style of play that works in today's 3 point happy, touch foul environment. If that means eschewing the 6'10" big man (Govan, Hayes,) for smaller, quicker, more athletic forwards/guards then do it. Finally, it means looking for floor leaders. Guys who can manage the game and who you can go to in the last 5 minutes or overtime. One thing stood out during the recent Butler game. To a man, everyone in my group at the game knew that we had to win that game in regulation. We just couldn't see who would take over the overtime for the Hoyas while Butler had 2-3 guys who could. This. It means breaking with the Georgetown basketball tradition of Big Man U., and evolving into the guard-centric play that now dominates the college game. Are we prepared to support a Hoya team that rejects our past traditions? |
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 11, 2017 14:12:46 GMT -5
yes
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 11, 2017 14:22:42 GMT -5
It means breaking with the Georgetown basketball tradition of Big Man U., and evolving into the guard-centric play that now dominates the college game. Are we prepared to support a Hoya team that rejects our past traditions? It's not a tradition in the strict sense, more like an element of culture. Example: the track team has always had good long distance runners (in no small part because GU never invested in facilities for the sprints and field events). That's outcome based, not a shared belief. |
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 11, 2017 14:37:53 GMT -5
How about 16-2 the last three years for Nova? Look I'm not a Novaphile, I probably hate them more than most since I attended an Augustinian High School and lots of my friends went to Nova, but Wright and company really seem to have found the winning formula. But it's not a secret formula. Out there for all to see. As pointed out elsewhere on this thread it starts with recruiting. Gotta find those guys who can contribute from day one, improve from year to year and hopefully stay at least 3 years. Also have to adopt a style of play that works in today's 3 point happy, touch foul environment. If that means eschewing the 6'10" big man (Govan, Hayes,) for smaller, quicker, more athletic forwards/guards then do it. Finally, it means looking for floor leaders. Guys who can manage the game and who you can go to in the last 5 minutes or overtime. One thing stood out during the recent Butler game. To a man, everyone in my group at the game knew that we had to win that game in regulation. We just couldn't see who would take over the overtime for the Hoyas while Butler had 2-3 guys who could. This. It means breaking with the Georgetown basketball tradition of Big Man U., and evolving into the guard-centric play that now dominates the college game. Are we prepared to support a Hoya team that rejects our past traditions? Not sure you have to move away from the Big Man U tradition, you just need to start recruiting different types of Big Men. The plodding big men of years past just don't work in today's college game. Roy Hibbert has been a quality pro and a valuable asset to the university, but he is not the type of player that is going to be effective in todays college game. You need a more mobile, explosive athlete as your center these days. Someone that can switch on defense and cover various positions, someone who jumps quickly and does a good job rebounding out of their area. Patrick Ewing and Alonzo Mourning were not big, bruising centers when they arrived at Georgetown and they were effective then and would be even more effective now. You can maintain the tradition but adapt it to quick more explosive centers. |
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 11, 2017 15:29:54 GMT -5
This. It means breaking with the Georgetown basketball tradition of Big Man U., and evolving into the guard-centric play that now dominates the college game. Are we prepared to support a Hoya team that rejects our past traditions? Not sure you have to move away from the Big Man U tradition, you just need to start recruiting different types of Big Men. The plodding big men of years past just don't work in today's college game. Roy Hibbert has been a quality pro and a valuable asset to the university, but he is not the type of player that is going to be effective in todays college game. You need a more mobile, explosive athlete as your center these days. Someone that can switch on defense and cover various positions, someone who jumps quickly and does a good job rebounding out of their area. Patrick Ewing and Alonzo Mourning were not big, bruising centers when they arrived at Georgetown and they were effective then and would be even more effective now. You can maintain the tradition but adapt it to quick more explosive centers. I think by big you mean Ewing was not 250+ pounds. But at 7 feet he was big. But you're right, he and Alonso were athletic and would still be monsters in today's game. Jerome Williams would also be a huge asset for todays team. But Othella and Sweetney and several other past big men really don't fit the model of what today's centers need to be. The sooner our coaches understand this the better. |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 11, 2017 15:57:57 GMT -5
I would take the next versions of Othella and Big Mike in a heartbeat and believe they both would be excellent players today.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 11, 2017 16:48:33 GMT -5
I would take the next versions of Othella and Big Mike in a heartbeat and believe they both would be excellent players today. Othella and Sweetney were both great Hoyas, but their games would not be as successful in today's college game. Lateral quickness and the ability to jump quickly are more important than strength these days. Hayes and Govan would both be considered better players 10-15 years ago, when the game was more physical and every small bump was not called a foul. Quickness and the ability to play away from the basket are valuable skills for todays post players. The Hoyas really need to recruit some long and explosive athletes in the near future. A team can sometimes get away with one slower, plodding type center if that player is offensively skilled, but those types of players become a problem when they need to defend the constant pick and rolls run by other teams. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 11, 2017 16:48:42 GMT -5
Generally, I agree with you. But, Villanova's example really isn't a good one. Yes, they won one championship. But if things went a few different ways maybe we would have won in 2007. I think that winning a championship at the highest level for programs in Georgetown's category (including pretty much every Big East team) is extremely difficult. None of our conference schools regularly recruit one and dones, we don't have coaches with NBA pipelines (like Kentucky), we don't have any blue bloods, and we don't have massive state schools that will fill huge arenas. I mean, there's a reason why aside from Duke (really, the only private school blueblood, unless you want include Syracuse - I won't), only two private schools have won the NCAA championship since 1985. That's more than coincidence, and I think the evolution of the game and recruiting has only accentuated those tendencies. The home-and-home definitely brings it's challenges, but I don't think we can use it or the conference as an excuse. The home-and-home might make it harder to go 17-1 or some crazy record like that, but it doesn't present us from putting out a really good basketball product that's better than the one we've had this season. How about 16-2 the last three years for Nova? Look I'm not a Novaphile, I probably hate them more than most since I attended an Augustinian High School and lots of my friends went to Nova, but Wright and company really seem to have found the winning formula. But it's not a secret formula. Out there for all to see. As pointed out elsewhere on this thread it starts with recruiting. Gotta find those guys who can contribute from day one, improve from year to year and hopefully stay at least 3 years. Also have to adopt a style of play that works in today's 3 point happy, touch foul environment. If that means eschewing the 6'10" big man (Govan, Hayes,) for smaller, quicker, more athletic forwards/guards then do it. Finally, it means looking for floor leaders. Guys who can manage the game and who you can go to in the last 5 minutes or overtime. One thing stood out during the recent Butler game. To a man, everyone in my group at the game knew that we had to win that game in regulation. We just couldn't see who would take over the overtime for the Hoyas while Butler had 2-3 guys who could. Daniel Ochefu was 6'11". Worked okay for 'nova. Marshall Plumlee was 7 feet in'15 and Okafor 6'11"(yeah I know he was anything but a traditional big, just noting the height). You don't have to eschew the big man. Granted, in most cases a more athletic and versatile big is a plus in today's game. But what you need to do is build your team so the pieces mesh together in your system. And heck yes, you better have at least one leader. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 11, 2017 17:06:56 GMT -5
I would take the next versions of Othella and Big Mike in a heartbeat and believe they both would be excellent players today. Othella and Sweetney were both great Hoyas, but their games would not be as successful in today's college game. Lateral quickness and the ability to jump quickly are more important than strength these days. Hayes and Govan would both be considered better players 10-15 years ago, when the game was more physical and every small bump was not called a foul. Quickness and the ability to play away from the basket are valuable skills for todays post players. The Hoyas really need to recruit some long and explosive athletes in the near future. A team can sometimes get away with one slower, plodding type center if that player is offensively skilled, but those types of players become a problem when they need to defend the constant pick and rolls run by other teams. Agree to disagree. Put Othella and/or Sweetney in a situation where they cannot be tripled-teamed in the post by surrounding them with good players and he would absolutely kill it, yesterday, today and tomorrow. Hayes and Govan don't take advantage of all the 1-v-1s they face. There's no way a team could risk a 1-v-1 with Othella and/or Sweetney. I would say Hayes and Govan would be worse off in a more physical setting. |
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hoyajinx
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Post by hoyajinx on Jan 11, 2017 17:15:06 GMT -5
I'm firmly in the camp that would take Sweetney in any recruiting class in any year. He moved as well as, if not better than, anyone in the low post on offense. Never afraid to take contact, something that can't be said for a lot of bigs in basketball right now. If not for him, those Escherick years would have been an even bigger black hole in our history.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 11, 2017 17:42:04 GMT -5
I'm firmly in the camp that would take Sweetney in any recruiting class in any year. He moved as well as, if not better than, anyone in the low post on offense. Never afraid to take contact, something that can't be said for a lot of bigs in basketball right now. If not for him, those Escherick years would have been an even bigger black hole in our history. And he had great hands, unlike Govan. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 11, 2017 18:26:30 GMT -5
Most of the past big guy players who have been mentioned here would do just fine because they were excellent players, and in some cases really good NBA players.
I think the type of guy who epitomizes what the game is trending away from is someone like Hayes. Even the NBA used to have a niche for the larger plodding guys. That's just not the same anymore. And I think big guys who can hit threes will only trend upward with time.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 11, 2017 18:30:40 GMT -5
Harrington & Sweetney are NBA players and Hayes & Govan are not. No one could stop Big Mike from doing his thing. He could score with three guys on his back.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Jan 12, 2017 9:00:26 GMT -5
Harrington & Sweetney are NBA players and Hayes & Govan are not. No one could stop Big Mike from doing his thing. He could score with three guys on his back. Not so fast on Govan. I say it highly likely that he will be drafted by an NBA team. This will likely be based entirely on his shooting ability: he can hit it consistently from midrange, long distance and the line and that is very enticing to any NBA team when packaged in someone with his frame. His ability to actually stick in the league, though, will be entirely contingent on improving his defense. |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 12, 2017 9:26:39 GMT -5
Govan has the ability but has a long way to go before he sniffs the NBA...so not disagreeing, Cambridge- you are correct that his shooting is a huge asset. But right now, he is far too soft and inconsistent.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 12, 2017 9:55:23 GMT -5
Govan has the ability but has a long way to go before he sniffs the NBA...so not disagreeing, Cambridge- you are correct that his shooting is a huge asset. But right now, he is far too soft and inconsistent. He reminds me of Henry Sims but with a better post game and much more advanced at this stage in their careers. I like that Govan is working on his dribble drive because once Sims got that dribble drive down he really was able to make the Princeton work as a triple threat. |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 12, 2017 10:02:10 GMT -5
Henry was more athletic but nowhere near the shooter...
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 12, 2017 12:12:45 GMT -5
Henry was more athletic but nowhere near the shooter... I don't think henry is that athletic. They are about the same athleticism which is slightly below par for he NBA level. |
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