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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 16, 2015 22:18:28 GMT -5
I think everyone agrees we could us another guard, but I don't think Collins is looking to come in to be another body. He's going to want to be the clear starter. Why wouldn't he be a starter? We have exactly one point guard on the roster, a sophomore who is good but still learning and developing. We essentially have 2 guards on the roster right now. TWO! There is plenty of time for Campbell, DSR and Collins to share. Why not have a 5th year senior take the reigns and hand the reigns over to a junior Campbell the following year? Collins would not start because he is not one of the best five players on our roster. It depends on how JTIII decides to use our players. He could with a DSR-Peak-SF(Copeland/White)-PF(Derrickson/Agau/Copeland/White)-C(Govan/Hayes/Agau?). If he does, then Tre Campbell is the obvious guy to come in and I think he will get plenty of minutes. One of our major problems last year is that we didn't have anybody who could shoot. Right now, the best shooters on our roster are probably DSR, Campbell, and Copeland. Obviously, that could change very easily next year, but Collins would not be among the top 5 shooters, for sure. That's why he would not start. The most important thing is to have guys on the floor who can shoot regardless of position. I agree somebody would be good for depth in case of injury, etc., but that person isn't someone who should be starting if that person can't shoot threes, can't shoot twos well, and the person turns it over at an alarming rate. Again, I am fine having Collins in a backup role, but I highly doubt that's what he wants.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 17, 2015 8:21:59 GMT -5
Why wouldn't he be a starter? We have exactly one point guard on the roster, a sophomore who is good but still learning and developing. We essentially have 2 guards on the roster right now. TWO! There is plenty of time for Campbell, DSR and Collins to share. Why not have a 5th year senior take the reigns and hand the reigns over to a junior Campbell the following year? Collins would not start because he is not one of the best five players on our roster. It depends on how JTIII decides to use our players. He could with a DSR-Peak-SF(Copeland/White)-PF(Derrickson/Agau/Copeland/White)-C(Govan/Hayes/Agau?). If he does, then Tre Campbell is the obvious guy to come in and I think he will get plenty of minutes. One of our major problems last year is that we didn't have anybody who could shoot. Right now, the best shooters on our roster are probably DSR, Campbell, and Copeland. Obviously, that could change very easily next year, but Collins would not be among the top 5 shooters, for sure. That's why he would not start. The most important thing is to have guys on the floor who can shoot regardless of position. I agree somebody would be good for depth in case of injury, etc., but that person isn't someone who should be starting if that person can't shoot threes, can't shoot twos well, and the person turns it over at an alarming rate. Again, I am fine having Collins in a backup role, but I highly doubt that's what he wants. Apparently the staff sees him as starter quality.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Apr 17, 2015 8:40:48 GMT -5
Collins would not start because he is not one of the best five players on our roster. It depends on how JTIII decides to use our players. He could with a DSR-Peak-SF(Copeland/White)-PF(Derrickson/Agau/Copeland/White)-C(Govan/Hayes/Agau?). If he does, then Tre Campbell is the obvious guy to come in and I think he will get plenty of minutes. One of our major problems last year is that we didn't have anybody who could shoot. Right now, the best shooters on our roster are probably DSR, Campbell, and Copeland. Obviously, that could change very easily next year, but Collins would not be among the top 5 shooters, for sure. That's why he would not start. The most important thing is to have guys on the floor who can shoot regardless of position. I agree somebody would be good for depth in case of injury, etc., but that person isn't someone who should be starting if that person can't shoot threes, can't shoot twos well, and the person turns it over at an alarming rate. Again, I am fine having Collins in a backup role, but I highly doubt that's what he wants. Apparently the staff sees him as starter quality. I don't know what "starter quality" means, since it's relative to the other players on the team. When we didn't have DSR, Collins was definitely starter quality. Now that we have DSR back, it's unclear to me that a starting backcourt of Collins/DSR is better than a starting backcourt of DSR/Peak or Tre/DSR.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Apr 17, 2015 9:14:22 GMT -5
There are plenty of guys I would take over Collins, but I do not think we have enough quality ball handling to say Collins could not help us next season. He does not solve the shooting issue, but he does relieve the pressure on DSR and Tre when the other team decides to press us.
Collins does things well and he has a ton of experience playing pure point guard at a high major level. As long as he understands his role and accepts it, I see nothing wrong bringing him in if we have room.
My guess is Collins has been in purgatory for too long at USF and just wants a chance to win even if it means his minutes go down. He can do that with the Hoyas. Tre can play both guard spots as well, so I am not too worried about stunting his growth.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 17, 2015 9:28:10 GMT -5
Apparently the staff sees him as starter quality. I don't know what "starter quality" means, since it's relative to the other players on the team. When we didn't have DSR, Collins was definitely starter quality. Now that we have DSR back, it's unclear to me that a starting backcourt of Collins/DSR is better than a starting backcourt of DSR/Peak or Tre/DSR. What? The staff on this team sees him as "starter quality" on this team, they know which players he's stacking up against. At the end of the day players have to earn their role in the offseason and in practice, he wouldn't be guaranteed anything, just as Tre isn't guaranteed anything at this point.......
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 17, 2015 10:36:11 GMT -5
I don't know what "starter quality" means, since it's relative to the other players on the team. When we didn't have DSR, Collins was definitely starter quality. Now that we have DSR back, it's unclear to me that a starting backcourt of Collins/DSR is better than a starting backcourt of DSR/Peak or Tre/DSR. What? The staff on this team sees him as "starter quality" on this team, they know which players he's stacking up against. At the end of the day players have to earn their role in the offseason and in practice, he wouldn't be guaranteed anything, just as Tre isn't guaranteed anything at this point....... I agree with this. At this point, I don't think anybody besides DSR has earned the right to be guaranteed anything. Tre and LJ are both very nice players, but they also both have obvious flaws and growth necessary in their games. Same goes for Collins, but his pluses and his experience would allow him to get serious minutes in the one year he'd be playing for the Hoyas. And he plays a position where we are lacking in depth at this point. The reason I really like Collins in comparison to Gill is that Collins only costs one year of a scholarship, in a year when we have one open, and Gill costs three years (only two of which he'd be playing). I see no downside to taking Collins, if he's willing to come in and compete for minutes and not be guaranteed anything on a preseason top 15 team. My guess is he ends up at Baylor, but I'd love him as a one-year Hoya.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 17, 2015 10:48:01 GMT -5
What? The staff on this team sees him as "starter quality" on this team, they know which players he's stacking up against. At the end of the day players have to earn their role in the offseason and in practice, he wouldn't be guaranteed anything, just as Tre isn't guaranteed anything at this point....... I agree with this. At this point, I don't think anybody besides DSR has earned the right to be guaranteed anything. Tre and LJ are both very nice players, but they also both have obvious flaws and growth necessary in their games. Same goes for Collins, but his pluses and his experience would allow him to get serious minutes in the one year he'd be playing for the Hoyas. And he plays a position where we are lacking in depth at this point. The reason I really like Collins in comparison to Gill is that Collins only costs one year of a scholarship, in a year when we have one open, and Gill costs three years (only two of which he'd be playing). I see no downside to taking Collins, if he's willing to come in and compete for minutes and not be guaranteed anything on a preseason top 15 team. My guess is he ends up at Baylor, but I'd love him as a one-year Hoya. First, I am not entirely sure where rockhoya is getting his information that the staff thinks Collins is starter quality. I know blueandgray made a few comments to that effect, but that was before DSR was in the mix (and blueandgray has essentially said that, too). Without DSR, we would have basically needed any guard who could handle the ball. We don't really have that problem anymore, so I think the perspective has changed. Second, I do agree that Collins fits well because he's a one year guy. The upside is you know what you're going to get with him (a ball handler and point who cannot shoot). The downside is that he doesn't really help us in the one area we really suffered last year (shooting). Granted, Gill may not help on that either, but Collins has played 4 seasons already - he's not going to suddenly become an ace shooter. With Gill, he'd have a year to develop and obviously he had some natural talents in high school. I am just not convinced that Collins would "develop" a whole lot more - he's played a lot already, and he's been pretty consistent in what he does. I don't think there are many surprises to be had. Overall, while I agree guard depth is important, I also think the need for a ball handler is grossly over rated in our offense. Many of the games we lost last year were not because of poor ball handling, it was because we couldn't shoot.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 17, 2015 11:27:08 GMT -5
I agree with this. At this point, I don't think anybody besides DSR has earned the right to be guaranteed anything. Tre and LJ are both very nice players, but they also both have obvious flaws and growth necessary in their games. Same goes for Collins, but his pluses and his experience would allow him to get serious minutes in the one year he'd be playing for the Hoyas. And he plays a position where we are lacking in depth at this point. The reason I really like Collins in comparison to Gill is that Collins only costs one year of a scholarship, in a year when we have one open, and Gill costs three years (only two of which he'd be playing). I see no downside to taking Collins, if he's willing to come in and compete for minutes and not be guaranteed anything on a preseason top 15 team. My guess is he ends up at Baylor, but I'd love him as a one-year Hoya. First, I am not entirely sure where rockhoya is getting his information that the staff thinks Collins is starter quality. I know blueandgray made a few comments to that effect, but that was before DSR was in the mix (and blueandgray has essentially said that, too). Without DSR, we would have basically needed any guard who could handle the ball. We don't really have that problem anymore, so I think the perspective has changed. Second, I do agree that Collins fits well because he's a one year guy. The upside is you know what you're going to get with him (a ball handler and point who cannot shoot). The downside is that he doesn't really help us in the one area we really suffered last year (shooting). Granted, Gill may not help on that either, but Collins has played 4 seasons already - he's not going to suddenly become an ace shooter. With Gill, he'd have a year to develop and obviously he had some natural talents in high school. I am just not convinced that Collins would "develop" a whole lot more - he's played a lot already, and he's been pretty consistent in what he does. I don't think there are many surprises to be had. Overall, while I agree guard depth is important, I also think the need for a ball handler is grossly over rated in our offense. Many of the games we lost last year were not because of poor ball handling, it was because we couldn't shoot. The point is, under the right circumstances there's a scenario where he's good enough to start on next years squad because of the nature of competition in sports. The staff thinks so as well, as evidenced by recruiting a 5th year transfer aka someone who wants nothing less than the opportunity to compete for a starting spot and not go from starting 4 years to agreeing to come off the bench.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Apr 17, 2015 11:31:46 GMT -5
Why would a guy transferring from USF to a markedly better program expect to start?
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 17, 2015 11:35:05 GMT -5
Why would a guy transferring from USF to a markedly better program expect to start? That's stupid. That's like saying, "Why would a guy transferring from Drexel to a markedly better program expect to start?"
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 17, 2015 11:48:40 GMT -5
I think when you're a 5th year graduate senior that NBA aspirations are probably not that high and you are probably in a position where you can't even go pro overseas or NBDL. So you are looking to increase your value to be able to at least play pro ball overseas or just looking to be part of and help a team that can win a championship.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 17, 2015 12:15:12 GMT -5
Apparently the staff sees him as starter quality. How do you know? Not calling you out, but I would like to read/hear the staff's opinion on him (knowing that JT3 and staff keep the recruiting cards close to the vest).
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Apr 17, 2015 12:30:35 GMT -5
Why would a guy transferring from USF to a markedly better program expect to start? That's stupid. That's like saying, "Why would a guy transferring from Drexel to a markedly better program expect to start?" Except, of course, Lee is the exception and is a far better player than Collins.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Apr 17, 2015 12:31:22 GMT -5
If the tea leaves readers on this board are correct and the two Williams' are transferring elsewhere, then the combination of Collins in 2016 and Gill in 2017 makes since. Collins would battle Tre for the pg position next year and let DSR play the 2 guard exclusively. In 2017 Collins and DSR are off the board and Gill and Bracey replace them as the backup pg (Bracey)behind Tre and the starting shooting guard(Gill).
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 17, 2015 14:00:58 GMT -5
That's stupid. That's like saying, "Why would a guy transferring from Drexel to a markedly better program expect to start?" Except, of course, Lee is the exception and is a far better player than Collins. But that's not the argument you made.
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Post by jld54 on Apr 17, 2015 14:29:32 GMT -5
Can you folks please stop the sniping and nitpicking? I think that most people check this board to see if there is any recent information re: visits, etc. It is very annoying to have to scroll through inane ad hominem quarrels. Can you take this to PMs?
Thank you.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Apr 17, 2015 15:10:10 GMT -5
Can you folks please stop the sniping and nitpicking? I think that most people check this board to see if there is any recent information re: visits, etc. It is very annoying to have to scroll through inane ad hominem quarrels. Can you take this to PMs? Thank you. Welcome to hoyatalk and also the internet.
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AvantGuardHoya
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Apr 17, 2015 15:37:24 GMT -5
Can you folks please stop the sniping and nitpicking? I think that most people check this board to see if there is any recent information re: visits, etc. It is very annoying to have to scroll through inane ad hominem quarrels. Can you take this to PMs? Thank you. Ok, jld!
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 26, 2015 18:13:12 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 18:43:45 GMT -5
Texas A&M is going to have a lot of of talent next year, top 3 class and Collins
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