TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Apr 9, 2015 13:32:05 GMT -5
Was he? By percentages, they were pretty even. Chris WAS a good shooter allegedly in high school but that rep seemed to based on volume because he was a pretty terrible shooter here. Chris was a threat from 3-point range, defenses respected that. That would be a change from Collins. Chris Wright wasn't great from behind the arc, but he was good enough where you had to respect it. Their percentages are the same, but Chris took a lot more threes than Collins has. Chris made 40 threes a year his last two seasons and 31 threes his sophomore year. Collins has made 31 three pointers his entire career.
|
|
nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
|
Post by nychoya3 on Apr 9, 2015 13:33:16 GMT -5
There's no comparison to Chris Wright. Collins shoots less than a three a game and basically as a last resort. Chris took difficult threes frequently. Chris wasn't a lights out shooter from deep, but he was a threat to shoot, unlike Collins.
|
|
hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,393
|
Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 9, 2015 13:42:50 GMT -5
Was he? By percentages, they were pretty even. Chris WAS a good shooter allegedly in high school but that rep seemed to based on volume because he was a pretty terrible shooter here. Revisionist history. While he wasn't a lights shooter from 3, Chris was far from a terrible shooter.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 9, 2015 13:55:37 GMT -5
Chris Wright's Numbers:
2008: O Rating: 100.1, 2 PT %: 48.9%, 3 PT %: 47.8%, TO Rate: 21.6% 2009: O Rating: 107.8, 2 PT %: 56.5%, 3 PT %: 32.3%, TO Rate: 16.5% 2010: O Rating: 111.7, 2 PT %: 53.6%, 3 PT %: 33.6%, TO Rate: 20.4% 2011: O Rating: 105.2, 2 PT %: 47.6%, 3 PT %: 33.3%, TO Rate: 26.1%
Collins' Numbers:
2012: O Rating: 98.6, 2 PT %: 53.8%, 3 PT %: 29.2%, TO Rate: 32.4% 2013: O Rating: 96.5, 2 PT %: 39.3%, 3 PT %: 39.1%, TO Rate: 24.4% 2014: O Rating: 88.2, 2 PT %: 20.0%, 3 PT %: 38.9%, TO Rate: 34.6% 2015: O Rating: 95.6, 2 PT %: 46.9%, 3 PT %: 27.6%, TO Rate: 25.7%
It's not even close. Chris Wright was far and away a better player and shooter. Chris Wright also turned it over a lot less. I also don't know that the driving and dishing is that useful if Collins is turning it over at these huge rates. Again, I think he's fine as a limited player, but not at the expense of Campbell being primary PG behind DSR (if DSR plays point at all).
|
|
dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,007
|
Post by dense on Apr 9, 2015 14:20:56 GMT -5
USF offense is totally different from ours so comparing TO rates isn't necessarily that useful. Collins had the ball in his hands the whole shot clock. He will have to adjust to the offense but I like that he knows how to create decent chances late clock which with the 30 sec shot clock that will probably happen next year will be effective.
|
|
|
Post by hoyamonarch on Apr 9, 2015 14:45:14 GMT -5
The issue with offensive rating is your teammates play a large role in it. If he played for Kentucky, his O-rating would be much higher (or Georgetown)
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 9, 2015 15:06:32 GMT -5
The issue with offensive rating is your teammates play a large role in it. If he played for Kentucky, his O-rating would be much higher (or Georgetown) That's only partially true. Major components of the O Rating include shooting, assists, and turnovers. Arguably, this past season, USF played in a substantially worse league than the current Big East. Consequently, Collins would be playing against better teams in the Big East than the AAC, so one could expect that he'll face better defenses, causing his offensive numbers to suffer even more, and arguably he might turn it over even more. (And yes, I know that he played in the old Big East, but I am focusing on last year which is the best assessment of his current ability.)
|
|
|
Post by daymondmyles on Apr 9, 2015 15:18:22 GMT -5
First off, let me say this. Chris Wright was definitely a better player. However, I do think his shooting was vastly overrated. I always shuddered when he took a 3. And quite honestly I hated HATED when he drove to the basket with nowhere to go and chucked it up. Always thought he was better suited to a dribble drive system. But I admired the way he changed his game by senior year. My point is that I don't know that defenses really had to guard him that much outside and that his inability to shoot well did not kill our offense because we had others people had to guard on the outside too. I tend to think Collins will be respected less and we will see pack line D and zone until we can prove somebody other than DSR can shoot. But I'm optimistic that 1 or 2 players will step up.
|
|
hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,393
|
Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 9, 2015 15:26:51 GMT -5
First off, let me say this. Chris Wright was definitely a better player. However, I do think his shooting was vastly overrated. I always shuddered when he took a 3. And quite honestly I hated HATED when he drove to the basket with nowhere to go and chucked it up. Always thought he was better suited to a dribble drive system. But I admired the way he changed his game by senior year. My point is that I don't know that defenses really had to guard him that much outside and that his inability to shoot well did not kill our offense because we had others people had to guard on the outside too. I tend to think Collins will be respected less and we will see pack line D and zone until we can prove somebody other than DSR can shoot. But I'm optimistic that 1 or 2 players will step up. That sounds a lot better. I'm not sure posters vastly overrate Wright's shooting. Most realize that he wasn't a lights out threat from three, but he shot it well enough that he had to be respected, IMO.
|
|
dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,007
|
Post by dense on Apr 9, 2015 16:36:05 GMT -5
The issue with offensive rating is your teammates play a large role in it. If he played for Kentucky, his O-rating would be much higher (or Georgetown) That's only partially true. Major components of the O Rating include shooting, assists, and turnovers. Arguably, this past season, USF played in a substantially worse league than the current Big East. Consequently, Collins would be playing against better teams in the Big East than the AAC, so one could expect that he'll face better defenses, causing his offensive numbers to suffer even more, and arguably he might turn it over even more. (And yes, I know that he played in the old Big East, but I am focusing on last year which is the best assessment of his current ability.) USF is in transition. Chris Perry really the only guy on that roster who would play here was out most of the year so Anthony averaging almost 6 asts is a miracle.
|
|
calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,352
|
Post by calhoya on Apr 9, 2015 16:52:37 GMT -5
Is there a highlight video of his defense or passing? The one I have seen is all about him driving into the lane and putting up floaters. Also they show a static offense with 4 players standing and watching Collins. Not at all what I hope or expect to see from the Hoyas with the current collection of players.
|
|
hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,393
|
Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 9, 2015 17:54:21 GMT -5
Is there a highlight video of his defense or passing? The one I have seen is all about him driving into the lane and putting up floaters. Also they show a static offense with 4 players standing and watching Collins. Not at all what I hope or expect to see from the Hoyas with the current collection of players. Same thing I thought when I watched that video, cal. No footage of him passing or playing defense. Two things I took away are that he is awfully quick with a nice handle, and USF's offense is just awful.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 10, 2015 0:22:33 GMT -5
I wonder his Kenny Williams' getting a release from VCU will impact pursuit of Collins?
|
|
|
Post by johnnysnowplow on Apr 10, 2015 7:06:48 GMT -5
I wonder his Kenny Williams' getting a release from VCU will impact pursuit of Collins? Hopefully...I'm with you, Collins doesn't get me very excited (and Williams does). I admired Collins from a afar the couple times we played him, but always remember saying that I don't think his style of play really suits our offense. Would I take him? Sure I suppose, but I'm not giddy about the idea. Also, would Collins really want to spend his 5 and final year riding the pine playing backup to a sophomore? After he spent the first four years as a ball-dominant PG logging a ton of minutes? I mean maybe it's just my perception but don't these 5th year transfers usually end up going somewhere with a bunch of minutes available? Like others have stated, I don't want the kid if it means stunting Tre's progress. And I can't imagine he wants his final year of eligibility to be spent backing up a sophomore and playing limited minutes in a system that doesn't really fit his game. When we were in panic mode, this made sense (frankly any guard made sense). Now that DSR is returning, I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of sense. Kenny Williams - go get him.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 10, 2015 7:44:01 GMT -5
I think Collins would be a good get. The thing with turnovers is that the turnover almost always goes to the passer even if the receiver should've made the play. With his bad teammates I bet his assists are lower and turnovers more than they would be in our system. He has an amazing handle so I think he's a good add regardless. He takes up a spot for one year and can help us.
I don't think Him and Williams are mutually exclusive since Collins will be gone in a year.
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,907
|
Post by EtomicB on Apr 10, 2015 7:58:09 GMT -5
I think Collins would be a good get. The thing with turnovers is that the turnover almost always goes to the passer even if the receiver should've made the play. With his bad teammates I bet his assists are lower and turnovers more than they would be in our system. He has an amazing handle so I think he's a good add regardless. He takes up a spot for one year and can help us. I don't think Him and Williams are mutually exclusive since Collins will be gone in a year. There's only one spot left for 2015 though, the staff can't have both..
|
|
gunny
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 559
|
Post by gunny on Apr 10, 2015 7:59:57 GMT -5
I think Collins would be a good get. The thing with turnovers is that the turnover almost always goes to the passer even if the receiver should've made the play. With his bad teammates I bet his assists are lower and turnovers more than they would be in our system. He has an amazing handle so I think he's a good add regardless. He takes up a spot for one year and can help us. I don't think Him and Williams are mutually exclusive since Collins will be gone in a year. There's only one spot left for 2015 though, the staff can't have both.. Williams should be priority 1, 2 and 3. Collins is the backup plan.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Apr 10, 2015 8:20:25 GMT -5
Chris Wright was a bad shooter too. And it's funny, he was finally getting into a rhythm and getting shooters bounces in the 5-6 game stretch before he broke his hand.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Apr 10, 2015 8:22:43 GMT -5
First off, let me say this. Chris Wright was definitely a better player. However, I do think his shooting was vastly overrated. I always shuddered when he took a 3. And quite honestly I hated HATED when he drove to the basket with nowhere to go and chucked it up. Always thought he was better suited to a dribble drive system. But I admired the way he changed his game by senior year. My point is that I don't know that defenses really had to guard him that much outside and that his inability to shoot well did not kill our offense because we had others people had to guard on the outside too. I tend to think Collins will be respected less and we will see pack line D and zone until we can prove somebody other than DSR can shoot. But I'm optimistic that 1 or 2 players will step up. That sounds a lot better. I'm not sure posters vastly overrate Wright's shooting. Most realize that he wasn't a lights out threat from three, but he shot it well enough that he had to be respected, IMO. And he was actually pretty good from midrange when he decided to take the shot.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 10, 2015 9:31:23 GMT -5
I think Collins would be a good get. The thing with turnovers is that the turnover almost always goes to the passer even if the receiver should've made the play. With his bad teammates I bet his assists are lower and turnovers more than they would be in our system. He has an amazing handle so I think he's a good add regardless. He takes up a spot for one year and can help us. I don't think Him and Williams are mutually exclusive since Collins will be gone in a year. There's only one spot left for 2015 though, the staff can't have both.. Are we sure about that? Did we ever get confirmation Mourning is on scholarship?
|
|