DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 31, 2015 18:53:08 GMT -5
After a few minutes in the HT sandbox arguing the educational merits of a degree to those who would suggest otherwise, here's my real concern with DSR's departure: a depth chart which reflects a recruiting strategy that really hurts Georgetown in 2016-17: the lack of guards. As such, here's the Georgetown depth chart circa 3/31/15: PG | SG | SF | PF | C | Campbell | Peak? | Copeland | White
| Hayes? | Allen | Williams | Cameron | Derrickson
| Govan | | | Johnson | Mourning
| Agau (Jan.) |
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Does anyone think David Allen or Riyan Williams will be seeing major time in November? No way. But if you think"just slip Peak into the 2", what they're really doing is ceding the shooting guard position, which has hurt Georgetown time and again down the stretch and certainly into NCAA tournament time. Peak needs a lot of work to be a SG because he lacks a consistent outside shot. And what's the backup plan with foul trouble? But back to the assistants. The staff loves the 6-7/6-8 tweeners, but are there too many of them? In the last four years, it has signed Bolden, Domingo, Cameron, Copeland, White, and Johnson. And when I raise questions about "the staff", people think I'm dumping on JTIII. Not so. The assistants, those who do the heavy lifting on recruiting and game prep, do raise concerns. Not since Sydney Johnson (and with the exception of Mike Brennan) has Georgetown had consistent recruiting results in the backcourt. The run of Wright, Freeman, Clark, and Starks was a clean sweep of the District's best, and since then? 2011: Trawick (one guard in class of five) 2012: DSR (one guard in class of four) 2013: None 2014: Campbell (one guard in class of five) 2015: None The staff missed badly on Bolden. And Domingo. The second year results on Cameron aren't promising, as he shot all of 27 percent from the floor and got no time down the stretch. Another reason why Bradley Hayes and his eight points versus Eastern Washington was invaluable. Without those 8 points, EWU's late run would have been fatal, and this would be a very long, very bitter off-season. Now, it's just an uncertain one for a team which looks to have moved down into the Big East's middle tier with this departure.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 31, 2015 19:05:10 GMT -5
Oh come on. The starting lineup is Tre, Peak, Ike, White, and Hayes or Govan.
We need a combo guard off the bench in short order but we have a starting lineup and one with a bunch of top recruits, just young.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 31, 2015 19:10:00 GMT -5
From what I have seen on the recruiting page, we have tried to recruit a number of sought after guards, but have not been successful. I think the staff recognizes the need; not sure if it is our lack of success putting guards in the league, or not having the right recruiting strategy, that has limited our success.
Let's see if we can pick up a graduate transfer. We certainly have some minutes available.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Mar 31, 2015 19:11:30 GMT -5
We definitely have issues but the chart is making it look worse than it is. Johnson will play a lot of two, and white can play some at the two, three or four. Don't be surprised to see while help bring the ball up either. Again, it less than ideal, we are young and very thin at the point, but we have some interchangable pieces.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 31, 2015 19:20:59 GMT -5
I do acknowledge that we have missed on elite guards that we have recruited....but those citing mitigated concerns above are only citing solutions at 2. There is no one to back up Tre at PG on scholarship.
If it wasn't for graduate transfers, we would be in full blown panic. Hopefully, the staff can pull a rabbit out of the hat given the apparent playing time available.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 31, 2015 19:25:42 GMT -5
I do acknowledge that we have missed on elite guards that we have recruited....but those citing mitigated concerns above are only citing solutions at 2. There is no one to back up Tre at PG on scholarship. If it wasn't for graduate transfers, we would be in full blown panic. Hopefully, the staff can pull a rabbit out of the hat given the apparent playing time available. I actually want a freshman combo guard and not a rental. Why not? Try the kid out and who knows how he gels with the team. You get the same thing from a rental just no upside.
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 31, 2015 19:29:23 GMT -5
Why have we been unsuccessful with guards? Is it the "BigManU" moniker or the focus on the point-forward in our offense?
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 31, 2015 19:33:47 GMT -5
Why have we been unsuccessful with guards? Is it the "BigManU" moniker or the focus on the point-forward in our offense? I speculate there are concerns that the Georgetown offense doesn't allow the showcasing of an elite PGs skills. Our guards are not needed to be ball dominant. What we do need is a big man in the high post who can make good decisions. I imagine others caricature our offense when recruiting against us.
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 31, 2015 19:36:30 GMT -5
Why have we been unsuccessful with guards? Is it the "BigManU" moniker or the focus on the point-forward in our offense? I speculate there are concerns that the Georgetown offense doesn't allow the showcasing of an elite PGs skills. Our guards are not needed to be ball dominant. What we do need is a big man in the high post who can make good decisions. I imagine others caricature our offense when recruiting against us. I can understand elite PGs not showing interest but how about a dependable ball handler that falls outside of the top 100, maybe 150-200?
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 31, 2015 19:37:33 GMT -5
I speculate there are concerns that the Georgetown offense doesn't allow the showcasing of an elite PGs skills. Our guards are not needed to be ball dominant. What we do need is a big man in the high post who can make good decisions. I imagine others caricature our offense when recruiting against us. I can understand elite PGs not showing interest but how about a dependable ball handler that falls outside of the top 100, maybe 150-200? I think that we have limited our search to those considered elite and we have missed.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 31, 2015 20:14:49 GMT -5
I can understand elite PGs not showing interest but how about a dependable ball handler that falls outside of the top 100, maybe 150-200? I think that we have limited our search to those considered elite and we have missed. I think this is probably true. I think we've also slow played a few in hopes of landing someone better and when we don't the other guy is then off the table. I think there are some talented guards in the DMV that might be undersized or not as highly regarded that we should be going after. There are several guards at mid major programs right now that I think would be successful on our roster. I think we can swing for the fences with bigs and wings because we've had a few of those guys be successful here and move on to the league, but even the 5 star guards we've had couldn't get drafted and I'm sure that hurts. I thought we'd be thin but manageable in the backcourt with DSR. Now, I don't see how we don't exhaust all avenues to either bring in a transfer or sign a 2015 under the radar guy to fill a need, if not both.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Mar 31, 2015 20:32:12 GMT -5
BOTH! We need both - if we can get them. A 5th year senior transfer to help right away, and hopefully a freshman who is a late commit or a de-commit from a team with a coaching change. Something has to happen. But we do have a solid team. A PG or combo coming in gets PT on a team that has solid talent at the other positions.
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Post by capcenterhoya on Mar 31, 2015 20:50:02 GMT -5
I can understand elite PGs not showing interest but how about a dependable ball handler that falls outside of the top 100, maybe 150-200? I think that we have limited our search to those considered elite and we have missed. Hopefully we can get a Vee Sanford type Spring signee. It's a lot easier at least to find a guard that can step in than a big man . Today has given me flashbacks to Damion Staple's recruitment during the Esherick era. Just waiting for Pitbull to reappear and start trolling the fanbase.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Mar 31, 2015 21:03:30 GMT -5
I think that we have limited our search to those considered elite and we have missed. Hopefully we can get a Vee Sanford type Spring signee. It's a lot easier at least to find a guard that can step in than a big man . Today has given me flashbacks to Damion Staple's recruitment during the Esherick era. Just waiting for Pitbull to reappear and start trolling the fanbase. What a great reference. I laughed. Thanks
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 31, 2015 22:07:03 GMT -5
I can understand elite PGs not showing interest but how about a dependable ball handler that falls outside of the top 100, maybe 150-200? I think that we have limited our search to those considered elite and we have missed. This. We clearly let Josh Hart walk away and from what B&G said in the other thread, we turned our backs on Hardnett too. At some point we have to acknowledge that the big time guards don't want to come here. And frankly we've shown that we don't need elite guards to win, so I don't really understand the "let's save to scholarships for guys we love" mentality. Take those kids with a decent tool or two and a little upside and make us love him. Isn't that part of the coach's job? Isn't that how the legend of John Wallace was born? Also, not that ever really missed on this kid because I don't think we ever recruited him, but there was a kid in the class of 2010 from Hyattsville, MD that played for Team Takeover, local kid. Fringe top-100 recruit, 3-star by most ranking services. NBA pedigree. That kid? Jerian Grant. While we're out chasing the Will Barton's of the world, we're letting good local talent get away.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Mar 31, 2015 23:07:20 GMT -5
When's the last time we actually used all 13 scholarships on recruited players?
I could very well be making some mistakes here but here's what I can piece together based on the scholarship table, roster info, and memory:
2015 - We came into the season with 1 open spot, and Trey Mourning was rumored to not need a scholarship if necessary. 2014 - Caprio was given a scholarship so we essentially had 1 open. 2013 - Adams is listed in the table but it was assumed he was no longer a counter at this point IIRC, so I believe we had 1 open. 2012 - 1 open 2011 - 1 open 2010 - 3 open 2009 - 3 open 2008 - 1 open
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Post by nyhoya2 on Apr 1, 2015 4:26:52 GMT -5
Thanks DFW and Jake for pulling the numbers. The recruiting posters on this site have noted the backcourt depth issue for over a year and now it has blown up in the staff's face. You can't leverage frontcourt talent with no experience in the backcourt. Pulling rabbits out of the hat last minute on the recruiting trail aren't the habits and formulas of sweet sixteen caliber programs, much less programs with higher aspirations. This falls under the category of poor risk management of a basketball program.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 1, 2015 7:30:39 GMT -5
Thanks DFW and Jake for pulling the numbers. The recruiting posters on this site have noted the backcourt depth issue for over a year and now it has blown up in the staff's face. You can't leverage frontcourt talent with no experience in the backcourt. Pulling rabbits out of the hat last minute on the recruiting trail aren't the habits and formulas of sweet sixteen caliber programs, much less programs with higher aspirations. This falls under the category of poor risk management of a basketball program. Here's the thing: It's hindsight withot even yet being hindsight! We don't know who they're going to get either as a transfer or a late signee. Complain if we come up empty (or do much worse than we would have done had we taken a two or three star guy initially). Regardless and to state the obvious: If you constantly take a two or three star recruit as a hedge against not getting a four or five, you never even have a chance to get a four or five. Oh, and to those saying we never get an elite guard (and my apologies if this has been raised): what about DSR? Wasn't he a top 30 or 40 overall recruit? I know he wasn't top 10 or anything, but it's not unrealistic to think that the staff thinks they can get someone similar to a guy that is currently on the roster and a successful example when they map out recruiting strategies. Every single recruiting situation is different and fact-specific: how good do you feel about your chances of getting five-star guard recruit Mr. _____; how good do you feel about still getting someone for depth purposes late in the game; what do you think of your reasonable returning players. We're simply not Kentucky or Duke -- a two-star guard likely isn't going to sign here knowing that he's being recruited over; and it may be that the staff thinks it can get a two-star type guard late in any given year anyway (through transfer or late signing).
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Apr 1, 2015 7:53:33 GMT -5
A high-major program should not be in a position to scramble for bodies to play the point. Whether the staff lands a late signee or transfer does not negate the fact the coaching staff mismanaged this issue. I suspect we are not the only program that is shooting for 4/5 star players
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 1, 2015 7:59:45 GMT -5
At least we won't have recruits scared off by a potential lack of minutes ...
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