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Post by daytonahoya31 on Mar 29, 2015 15:56:06 GMT -5
I am watching the Arizona and Wisconsin game and went back to look at Stanley Johnson's rating coming into this year. So as a result I pulled up the Top 20 where Ike was #16. A lot of guys ranked right around Ike have been very impressive in this tournament. Not that it matters, but If players were to be re-ranked where do think Ike would place now? I'd have to think he'd be outside the Top 20? I also don't think Paul or LJ would place as highly, but maybe I'm just being a hard grader as I'm going on a limited sample size for these other freshman versus seeing our guys play every game... espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2014/order/trueIssac has a good chance to someday be a lottery pick. He was ranked right where he should've been
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Mar 29, 2015 16:44:48 GMT -5
I am watching the Arizona and Wisconsin game and went back to look at Stanley Johnson's rating coming into this year. So as a result I pulled up the Top 20 where Ike was #16. A lot of guys ranked right around Ike have been very impressive in this tournament. Not that it matters, but If players were to be re-ranked where do think Ike would place now? I'd have to think he'd be outside the Top 20? I also don't think Paul or LJ would place as highly, but maybe I'm just being a hard grader as I'm going on a limited sample size for these other freshman versus seeing our guys play every game... espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2014/order/trueIssac has a good chance to someday be a lottery pick. He was ranked right where he should've been I think he has the ability to do so too. But when I look at this list, the majority of the Top 15 have demonstrated they are lottery picks right now, with the exception of a few. Just look at the mock draft boards out there. Additionally there a few guys (Tremble, Delgado, Booker, Ullis, Vaughn) who would be ranked higher than him right now. Look at a guy like Justice who was ranked one place higher than Ike. Justice is a consensus Top 10 pick right now, Ike is not. This is not a knock on him, just an observation on his standing right now compared to others he was considered on par with this time last year. There have been bigger busts and other sleepers, so I think Ike fits somewhere in between. And if it means he just needs 1-2 years to get back on the level as these peers, it's selfishly better for us anyway.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 29, 2015 17:57:21 GMT -5
Issac has a good chance to someday be a lottery pick. He was ranked right where he should've been I think he has the ability to do so too. But when I look at this list, the majority of the Top 15 have demonstrated they are lottery picks right now, with the exception of a few. Just look at the mock draft boards out there. Additionally there a few guys (Tremble, Delgado, Booker, Ullis, Vaughn) who would be ranked higher than him right now. Look at a guy like Justice who was ranked one place higher than Ike. Justice is a consensus Top 10 pick right now, Ike is not. This is not a knock on him, just an observation on his standing right now compared to others he was considered on par with this time last year. There have been bigger busts and other sleepers, so I think Ike fits somewhere in between. And if it means he just needs 1-2 years to get back on the level as these peers, it's selfishly better for us anyway. You think Ullis is a better is a better prospect even with his height limitations??
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Mar 29, 2015 18:02:11 GMT -5
I think he has the ability to do so too. But when I look at this list, the majority of the Top 15 have demonstrated they are lottery picks right now, with the exception of a few. Just look at the mock draft boards out there. Additionally there a few guys (Tremble, Delgado, Booker, Ullis, Vaughn) who would be ranked higher than him right now. Look at a guy like Justice who was ranked one place higher than Ike. Justice is a consensus Top 10 pick right now, Ike is not. This is not a knock on him, just an observation on his standing right now compared to others he was considered on par with this time last year. There have been bigger busts and other sleepers, so I think Ike fits somewhere in between. And if it means he just needs 1-2 years to get back on the level as these peers, it's selfishly better for us anyway. You think Ullis is a better is a better prospect even with his height limitations?? Better prospect? No. But better year at the college level (and therefore equating to a higher re-rank)? I think so given his games I saw...
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 29, 2015 18:08:18 GMT -5
You think Ullis is a better is a better prospect even with his height limitations?? Better prospect? No. But better year at the college level (and therefore equating to a higher re-rank)? I think so given his games I saw... Oh I thought this was a lottery/draft potential projection not a re-rank.
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Post by hoya2023 on Mar 29, 2015 18:16:46 GMT -5
Butler has landed St Bonaventura guard Jordan Gathers (nephew of Hank). He would have been a nice transfer for Georgetown to provide depth at the Guard spot. He averaged 8 points last season but is coming off hip surgery.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 29, 2015 18:25:36 GMT -5
It's worth noting that ESPN was the service that ranked Copeland the highest. If you use RSCI to aggregate scores, he came out at 28th.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2015 19:28:58 GMT -5
You think Ullis is a better is a better prospect even with his height limitations?? Better prospect? No. But better year at the college level (and therefore equating to a higher re-rank)? I think so given his games I saw... The rankings are based on pro potential though… There’s also players above him that had worse seasons such as Pinson and Whitehead IMO. You could argue a couple slots here or there but it really means very little
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Mar 29, 2015 19:37:09 GMT -5
Agreed. Turner and Alexander clearly didn't live up to these grades...
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 29, 2015 20:32:28 GMT -5
Neither Ullis nor Delgado had a better year than Ike. Vaughn ran around jacking bad shots before he got injured. Tremble and Booker had better years but on your Iist would only rank Tremble over Ike. Don't confuse better team with better season. Take it for what it's worth but shots are easier to make when you're on a stacked squad. Booker and Ullis have taken very few high pressure shots. Hell, Booker was on the bench for the last 5 mins of a tight game against ND.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 30, 2015 14:39:28 GMT -5
Watching Govan and Derrickson videos. Derrickson looks much quicker and smoother of the two. Quick release jump shot. Not afraid to shoot 3's. Govan looks like he might have trouble adjusting to size and speed of D1 basketball. I hate to say this, and probably shouldn't because I haven't seen him play in person, but in these videos Govan reminds me of Hop. Not aggressive offensively or on boards. Anyone seen either of them live?
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 30, 2015 14:46:18 GMT -5
Well that is a problem because most of hoyatalk has Govan starting next year.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 30, 2015 14:51:31 GMT -5
Watching Govan and Derrickson videos. Derrickson looks much quicker and smoother of the two. Quick release jump shot. Not afraid to shoot 3's. Govan looks like he might have trouble adjusting to size and speed of D1 basketball. I hate to say this, and probably shouldn't because I haven't seen him play in person, but in these videos Govan reminds me of Hop. Not aggressive offensively or on boards. Anyone seen either of them live? Govan is much bigger than Derrickson. I'd be very concerned for Derrickson's future if you told me that he wasn't quicker and smoother than Govan. From what I've seen (which is not in person), Govan is nothing like Hop. For one, he's taller and considerably bigger. Second, he may not have a quick release J, but he's fully comfortable out to fifteen feet. And, really, does your five need to have a quick release from fifteen feet?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 14:56:35 GMT -5
Watching Govan and Derrickson videos. Derrickson looks much quicker and smoother of the two. Quick release jump shot. Not afraid to shoot 3's. Govan looks like he might have trouble adjusting to size and speed of D1 basketball. I hate to say this, and probably shouldn't because I haven't seen him play in person, but in these videos Govan reminds me of Hop. Not aggressive offensively or on boards. Anyone seen either of them live? Yes and I wouldn’t take much from that video good or bad except the fact that Marcus can shoot it and Jessie is Huge….At the time of the video it’s funny but many would have said the opposite. Since that time Marcus has actually dropped around 30lbs. Govan and Hop have very little in common. Hop is a better athlete but Jessie is much bigger at this stage and a better basketball player. Jessie averaged 15 and 9 a game in EYBL play, 24pts and 13 in HS. Had big games against some top prospects in AAU. Still a big difference between playing against top HS Seniors and College Seniors. He will need help...
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 30, 2015 14:58:09 GMT -5
Watching Govan and Derrickson videos. Derrickson looks much quicker and smoother of the two. Quick release jump shot. Not afraid to shoot 3's. Govan looks like he might have trouble adjusting to size and speed of D1 basketball. I hate to say this, and probably shouldn't because I haven't seen him play in person, but in these videos Govan reminds me of Hop. Not aggressive offensively or on boards. Anyone seen either of them live? Govan is much bigger than Derrickson. I'd be very concerned for Derrickson's future if you told me that he wasn't quicker and smoother than Govan. From what I've seen (which is not in person), Govan is nothing like Hop. For one, he's taller and considerably bigger. Second, he may not have a quick release J, but he's fully comfortable out to fifteen feet. And, really, does your five need to have a quick release from fifteen feet? There are huge threads on the recruiting page on both that include a lot of scouting from people who have seen both play. Another thing I'll note having watched that tape, some of that footage is pretty old. I don't think I saw much (if anything) showing Derrickson at Brewster. He's in noticeably better shape in more recent highlights.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 30, 2015 15:05:13 GMT -5
Watching Govan and Derrickson videos. Derrickson looks much quicker and smoother of the two. Quick release jump shot. Not afraid to shoot 3's. Govan looks like he might have trouble adjusting to size and speed of D1 basketball. I hate to say this, and probably shouldn't because I haven't seen him play in person, but in these videos Govan reminds me of Hop. Not aggressive offensively or on boards. Anyone seen either of them live? Govan is much bigger than Derrickson. I'd be very concerned for Derrickson's future if you told me that he wasn't quicker and smoother than Govan. From what I've seen (which is not in person), Govan is nothing like Hop. For one, he's taller and considerably bigger. Second, he may not have a quick release J, but he's fully comfortable out to fifteen feet. And, really, does your five need to have a quick release from fifteen feet? Hop had the same range in hs and a much quicker release, albeit flat
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dense
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Post by dense on Mar 30, 2015 21:19:30 GMT -5
Watching Govan and Derrickson videos. Derrickson looks much quicker and smoother of the two. Quick release jump shot. Not afraid to shoot 3's. Govan looks like he might have trouble adjusting to size and speed of D1 basketball. I hate to say this, and probably shouldn't because I haven't seen him play in person, but in these videos Govan reminds me of Hop. Not aggressive offensively or on boards. Anyone seen either of them live? There is a whole thread about them. I have seen Govan play about 18 games now. Your assessment is way off. Govan is a very good finisher and offensive player. Defensively he isn't a rim protector. He can block shots. He runs the floor pretty well. His greatest attribute is his right hook and his ability to shoot the 15-18 foot shot. He is a really good FT shooter as well . Ive seen Marcus probably closer to 30-40 times play. Derrickson is a utility type big. He is a very good shooter from the perimeter. He has a good back the basket game. He isn't that quick laterally at all but he has good feet and hands. He is a decent rebounder. I think he will play more than most people think because he is used to playing against top competition. But I see him as more the 8th or 9th guy on next year's team. He may play some 5.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 30, 2015 22:01:54 GMT -5
Watching Govan and Derrickson videos. Derrickson looks much quicker and smoother of the two. Quick release jump shot. Not afraid to shoot 3's. Govan looks like he might have trouble adjusting to size and speed of D1 basketball. I hate to say this, and probably shouldn't because I haven't seen him play in person, but in these videos Govan reminds me of Hop. Not aggressive offensively or on boards. Anyone seen either of them live? There is a whole thread about them. I have seen Govan play about 18 games now. Your assessment is way off. Govan is a very good finisher and offensive player. Defensively he isn't a rim protector. He can block shots. He runs the floor pretty well. His greatest attribute is his right hook and his ability to shoot the 15-18 foot shot. He is a really good FT shooter as well . Ive seen Marcus probably closer to 30-40 times play. Derrickson is a utility type big. He is a very good shooter from the perimeter. He has a good back the basket game. He isn't that quick laterally at all but he has good feet and hands. He is a decent rebounder. I think he will play more than most people think because he is used to playing against top competition. But I see him as more the 8th or 9th guy on next year's team. He may play some 5. And both have high bball IQs, are hard workers and good FT shooters. Complete change of the guard.
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Post by michaelgrahamfan on Mar 30, 2015 22:31:57 GMT -5
Anyone comment on when and if we will get help at 1. This is the area of greatest concern for me by far.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Mar 30, 2015 22:39:55 GMT -5
There is a whole thread about them. I have seen Govan play about 18 games now. Your assessment is way off. Govan is a very good finisher and offensive player. Defensively he isn't a rim protector. He can block shots. He runs the floor pretty well. His greatest attribute is his right hook and his ability to shoot the 15-18 foot shot. He is a really good FT shooter as well . Ive seen Marcus probably closer to 30-40 times play. Derrickson is a utility type big. He is a very good shooter from the perimeter. He has a good back the basket game. He isn't that quick laterally at all but he has good feet and hands. He is a decent rebounder. I think he will play more than most people think because he is used to playing against top competition. But I see him as more the 8th or 9th guy on next year's team. He may play some 5. And both have high bball IQs, are hard workers and good FT shooters. Complete change of the guard. Having bigs who can make a good FT percentage is really underrated -- you don't hear a lot of people talk about it, but it really helps to seal games late, and to keep you in games as well, because you aren't afraid to throw it into those kinds of guys in a press situation. I love when I hear people say about Marcus' 3 point prowess that "he isn't a good shooter for a big guy -- he's a good shooter."
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