rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 21, 2015 13:18:04 GMT -5
Well if every guard you have is on the floor and one of them is hurt, maybe you need to recruit more guards....which is the point. Maybe it is an appropriate time to remember the collective wisdom of this board thought we would never need a 3rd center.....yea not until the 1st tournament game. Seriously? I don't think any team outside of Kentucky and (maybe Texas with their huge but incredibly soft frontcourt) would have a valuable guy they could play as a 3rd string center. Almost every team would be playing someone out of position. The fact that we have a 3rd string center at all is actually pretty uncommon. Duke has Okafor and Plumlee, next guy they have would probably be Jefferson at 6'9 215. Wisconsin has Kaminsky and that's really it. Dukan and Brown are the other bigs off the bench but Brown only gets 6 mins and Dukan is only 220. You get 13 scholarship spots for 5 positions, 3 guards is plenty if you have wings that can also handle the ball. Yeah, we're a little thin next year, but III did his due diligence and went after 5+ guards for the incoming class, so obviously he wanted to bring one in. That alone should tell you that he's not ignoring the position. Players are also getting bigger, taller, faster, etc. I have no problem with III wanting size. The new wave of NBA pgs are almost all 6'3+ with the exception of Napier who had that miracle run in the NCAAs. How dare you bring realistic context into the discussion?!? Note: I agree with your points, but if you've watched Uk they may have one of the best stable of bigs a college team has had in a long time. They have unreal depth. Dakari Johnson, Trey Lyles, WCS, and Anthony Towns can all play he 5 for them
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Post by tullamore2 on Mar 31, 2015 15:00:05 GMT -5
After watching that last 8 minutes of the Eastern Washington game and seeing turnover after turnover, it's obvious our poor point guard play needs to improve. Next year we have only DSR who is a combo guard and Tre. Who else on this team can handle the ball? Basically after those two, we don't even have another guard on the team. No....LJ Peak isn't a guard. JT3 needs to put more emphasis on recruiting guards. Guards that are quick, can handle and can run a team. Guard play wins come tournament time. We seem to have trouble playing smaller schools that have short, quick guards. I love getting all these 6'8" guys that are skilled but we need some ball handlers that are quick. BUMP JT3's lack of recruiting guards has put this team in the position it's in today. The departure of DSR and the lack of depth at the guard position is going to cripple next years team. The only "true" guard on scholarship is Tre Campbell. The roster was poorly constructed before the DSR departure. I don't understand why JT3 hasn't recruited guards. We have tons of forwards....and no guards. Georgetown shouldn't be in this position.
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Cambridge
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Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 31, 2015 15:44:43 GMT -5
Can we just lock this thread up...
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 31, 2015 19:25:31 GMT -5
May be time to realize the "BigManU" moniker may be a detriment.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 31, 2015 20:48:00 GMT -5
After watching that last 8 minutes of the Eastern Washington game and seeing turnover after turnover, it's obvious our poor point guard play needs to improve. Next year we have only DSR who is a combo guard and Tre. Who else on this team can handle the ball? Basically after those two, we don't even have another guard on the team. No....LJ Peak isn't a guard. JT3 needs to put more emphasis on recruiting guards. Guards that are quick, can handle and can run a team. Guard play wins come tournament time. We seem to have trouble playing smaller schools that have short, quick guards. I love getting all these 6'8" guys that are skilled but we need some ball handlers that are quick. BUMP JT3's lack of recruiting guards has put this team in the position it's in today. The departure of DSR and the lack of depth at the guard position is going to cripple next years team. The only "true" guard on scholarship is Tre Campbell. The roster was poorly constructed before the DSR departure. I don't understand why JT3 hasn't recruited guards. We have tons of forwards....and no guards. Georgetown shouldn't be in this position. Do you ever read the recruiting page? We have recruited numerous guards, we just have not had success. Maybe our reputation hurts us, but we can't take substandard guards just to fill a roster spot. Let's dee what develops before we get too agitated.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 31, 2015 21:30:21 GMT -5
BUMP JT3's lack of recruiting guards has put this team in the position it's in today. The departure of DSR and the lack of depth at the guard position is going to cripple next years team. The only "true" guard on scholarship is Tre Campbell. The roster was poorly constructed before the DSR departure. I don't understand why JT3 hasn't recruited guards. We have tons of forwards....and no guards. Georgetown shouldn't be in this position. Do you ever read the recruiting page? We have recruited numerous guards, we just have not had success. Maybe our reputation hurts us, but we can't take substandard guards just to fill a roster spot. Let's dee what develops before we get too agitated. What's your definition of sub-standard Frazier? Not all kids are gonna be known recruits..
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 31, 2015 21:33:50 GMT -5
Do you ever read the recruiting page? We have recruited numerous guards, we just have not had success. Maybe our reputation hurts us, but we can't take substandard guards just to fill a roster spot. Let's dee what develops before we get too agitated. What's your definition of sub-standard Frazier? How do you define sub-standard? Besides Campbell and Peak was there better talent then Allen and Williams to be had? I'm all for swinging for the fences but right now our program needs a warm body. Vis a vis guards our recruiting strategy must change.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 31, 2015 21:50:32 GMT -5
BUMP JT3's lack of recruiting guards has put this team in the position it's in today. The departure of DSR and the lack of depth at the guard position is going to cripple next years team. The only "true" guard on scholarship is Tre Campbell. The roster was poorly constructed before the DSR departure. I don't understand why JT3 hasn't recruited guards. We have tons of forwards....and no guards. Georgetown shouldn't be in this position. Do you ever read the recruiting page? We have recruited numerous guards, we just have not had success. Maybe our reputation hurts us, but we can't take substandard guards just to fill a roster spot. Let's dee what develops before we get too agitated. Yea this "substandard" comment is ridiculous. There are plenty of serviceable guards out there. Maybe they don't have all the tools, but the best staffs can take a kid with one or two tools and turn him into something much more than "substandard."
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 31, 2015 22:17:37 GMT -5
Do you ever read the recruiting page? We have recruited numerous guards, we just have not had success. Maybe our reputation hurts us, but we can't take substandard guards just to fill a roster spot. Let's dee what develops before we get too agitated. Yea this "substandard" comment is ridiculous. There are plenty of serviceable guards out there. Maybe they don't have all the tools, but the best staffs can take a kid with one or two tools and turn him into something much more than "substandard." No more "ridiculous" than saying that "we don't recruit guards". We have recruited any number of guards; we have not had alot of success lately, but to suggest that the staff does not put any priority on bringing in guards is just not true. By "substandard" I mean guards who are not Big East level players. Of course there are outliers who develop more than projected - but that does not mean that we should take guys just to have some guards.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 31, 2015 22:33:25 GMT -5
Yea this "substandard" comment is ridiculous. There are plenty of serviceable guards out there. Maybe they don't have all the tools, but the best staffs can take a kid with one or two tools and turn him into something much more than "substandard." No more "ridiculous" than saying that "we don't recruit guards". We have recruited any number of guards; we have not had alot of success lately, but to suggest that the staff does not put any priority on bringing in guards is just not true. By "substandard" I mean guards who are not Big East level players. Of course there are outliers who develop more than projected - but that does not mean that we should take guys just to have some guards. I never said even one of those things you just refuted. You just literally made up a statement ("we don't recruit guards") and argued against it. So getting back to the substandard nonsense, how is what we have on the roster not "substandard"? Our backup guards right now are David Allen and Riyan Williams. So bringing in a kid like Hardnett would have been a bad thing? I just don't see it. Maybe the kid isn't all-BE caliber, but neither are most of the guards in the Big East. Would anyone say Alex Barlow or Dee Davis are "substandard"? These were not highly-recruited kids. These are kids that bring some modicum of talent to the table, worked hard, and became perfectly capable major conference point guards. There are tons of these kids out there. It's time to start finding them.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 31, 2015 23:09:54 GMT -5
Yea this "substandard" comment is ridiculous. There are plenty of serviceable guards out there. Maybe they don't have all the tools, but the best staffs can take a kid with one or two tools and turn him into something much more than "substandard." No more "ridiculous" than saying that "we don't recruit guards". We have recruited any number of guards; we have not had alot of success lately, but to suggest that the staff does not put any priority on bringing in guards is just not true. By "substandard" I mean guards who are not Big East level players. Of course there are outliers who develop more than projected - but that does not mean that we should take guys just to have some guards. I think the OP meant the staff's failure to land PG's/guards Frazier, I have to believe he knows the staff has tried to recruit them.. Honestly, I do question their priority on the topic.. There were a good number of quality kids still available after Dozier chose South Carolina but I don't think much effort was put into monitoring any of them even though the need was there.. By this standard Utah had all outliers on their team Frazier, same thing for final 4 Wisconsin.. Trice & Forbes from Michigan State are 3 & 2 * recruits too.. I have no issue with the staff going after Trier, Bacon, Dozier, Crawford ect.. but you must have back-up plans in place if your top choices don't pan out.. There were/are kids still out there.. Broadus, Hardy & Sutton should be able to find lower rated players who fit what G'town is looking for imo, it's one of their main jobs actually..
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 31, 2015 23:14:49 GMT -5
No more "ridiculous" than saying that "we don't recruit guards". We have recruited any number of guards; we have not had alot of success lately, but to suggest that the staff does not put any priority on bringing in guards is just not true. By "substandard" I mean guards who are not Big East level players. Of course there are outliers who develop more than projected - but that does not mean that we should take guys just to have some guards. I never said even one of those things you just refuted. You just literally made up a statement ("we don't recruit guards") and argued against it. So getting back to the substandard nonsense, how is what we have on the roster not "substandard"? Our backup guards right now are David Allen and Riyan Williams. So bringing in a kid like Hardnett would have been a bad thing? I just don't see it. Maybe the kid isn't all-BE caliber, but neither are most of the guards in the Big East. Would anyone say Alex Barlow or Dee Davis are "substandard"? These were not highly-recruited kids. These are kids that bring some modicum of talent to the table, worked hard, and became perfectly capable major conference point guards. There are tons of these kids out there. It's time to start finding them. My "substandard" post was not in response to anything you said, it related to other posters who did say essentially that we don't recruit guards, so I didn't "literally make up a statement". And Allen and Williams are walkons, so I don't categorize them at all. We had 4 guards this year. We expected to have 3 back next year, and tried to recruit at least one more. Tre Campbell was not high up in the rankings, nor was Jabril - that does not make them substandard. And "Big East level" does not mean "All Big East", so perhaps YOU should stop just making up statements. My only point is, for the third time, you don't take a guard just for the sake of taking a guard. We focused on some highly ranked kids. We missed. We probably missed on a couple at the next level down while we were shooting higher. That is a risk you take. With what we expected to have coming back that was an understandable strategy. Now we regroup and figure out the options including 5th year guards. But not just any guard.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Apr 1, 2015 8:52:39 GMT -5
I never said even one of those things you just refuted. You just literally made up a statement ("we don't recruit guards") and argued against it. So getting back to the substandard nonsense, how is what we have on the roster not "substandard"? Our backup guards right now are David Allen and Riyan Williams. So bringing in a kid like Hardnett would have been a bad thing? I just don't see it. Maybe the kid isn't all-BE caliber, but neither are most of the guards in the Big East. Would anyone say Alex Barlow or Dee Davis are "substandard"? These were not highly-recruited kids. These are kids that bring some modicum of talent to the table, worked hard, and became perfectly capable major conference point guards. There are tons of these kids out there. It's time to start finding them. My "substandard" post was not in response to anything you said, it related to other posters who did say essentially that we don't recruit guards, so I didn't "literally make up a statement". And Allen and Williams are walkons, so I don't categorize them at all. We had 4 guards this year. We expected to have 3 back next year, and tried to recruit at least one more. Tre Campbell was not high up in the rankings, nor was Jabril - that does not make them substandard. And "Big East level" does not mean "All Big East", so perhaps YOU should stop just making up statements. My only point is, for the third time, you don't take a guard just for the sake of taking a guard. We focused on some highly ranked kids. We missed. We probably missed on a couple at the next level down while we were shooting higher. That is a risk you take. With what we expected to have coming back that was an understandable strategy. Now we regroup and figure out the options including 5th year guards. But not just any guard. My point was the kids we continually target are all-BE caliber guards. And we never get them. There are many many guards out there that fall between top 50 and substandard. I provided two examples above. We need to start focusing on these kids and not have this superstar or bust mentality. We can't keep letting kids like Hart and Reaves walk away while we chase the Dwayne Bacons of the world. Frankly we have a kid on our team right now who fits the mold of the kind of player I'm talking about. I just don't understand why we chase all these big time guard prospects when we run a system that deemphasizes the position anyway. It's been proven in the past that our system can win and win big without 4 and 5 star guards. We just need BE level guards that can shoot and dribble. And there are many many kids out there who fit that bill and are way above substandard level.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Apr 1, 2015 9:11:59 GMT -5
if that was your point, then it's belied by current players (Tre), previous players (Starks), and current targets for 2016 (Bracey). The critique that seems valid was that JT3 should have been more prepared for DSR leaving a year early, but that's hard to do because kids want to play and DSR wasn't clearly leaving (unless it was an open secret I didn't know), which would make 2015 recruiting more difficult.
Hart and Reaves are irrelevant because neither is a PG. unless we've expanded to guards in general, at which point, we've done fine recruiting guys who can play the 2 and this critique is downright bull. Yeah, we missed on Hart and arguably Reaves, but we have Johnson coming in, have Peak, White, Whit, etc. we enroll wings/SGs with little problem.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Apr 1, 2015 9:19:21 GMT -5
Guards:
Wallace 136 games, 136 starts, 1258 points, 240 3FG, 318 rebounds, 378 assists, 129 steals (43.4% 3FG%, 82.0% FT%) Sapp 135 games, 101 starts, 960 points, 148 3FG, 463 rebounds, 308 assists, 147 steals Wright 110 games, 94 starts, 1369 points, 127 3FG, 317 rebounds, 442 assists, 140 steals Freeman 129 games, 128 starts, 1761 points, 187 3FG, 462 rebounds, 274 assists, 108 steals Clark 130 games, 99 starts, 1363 points, 183 3FG, 475 rebounds, 206 assists, 170 steals Starks 126 games, 90 starts, 1246 points, 165 3FG, 201 rebounds, 300 assists, 100 steals Trawick 126 games, 74 starts, 851 points, 74 3FG, 340 rebounds, 205 assists, 100 steals DSR 97 games, 64 starts, 1386 points, 177 3FG, 393 rebounds, 263 assists, 117 steals
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 1, 2015 9:20:43 GMT -5
We don' get very many that is true - although we did just lose a first-teamer! I agree that there are 3 stars out there who could be good fits for us. But you can't fault the staff for focusing on 4's and 5's when they have other pieces that could make us something special with a bigtime guard or two.
2 years ago there were many complaints that we did not have enough size and athleticism with our 3's and 4's, do we focused on getting Ike, Paul, and LJ. This year we understandably were in desperate need of bigs. We focused our resources there. With the resources left, the staff shot high in the guard pool and missed, at least so far. Hopefully they can overcome this with a 5th year guy or a lower ranked guard who improved and can contribute. I just don't agree with the suggestions - not by you but by others - that the staff does not recognize a need at the guard position.
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guru
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Post by guru on Apr 1, 2015 9:21:14 GMT -5
if that was your point, then it's belied by current players (Tre), previous players (Starks), and current targets for 2016 (Bracey). The critique that seems valid was that JT3 should have been more prepared for DSR leaving a year early, but that's hard to do because kids want to play and DSR wasn't clearly leaving (unless it was an open secret I didn't know), which would make 2015 recruiting more difficult. Hart and Reaves are irrelevant because neither is a PG. unless we've expanded to guards in general, at which point, we've done fine recruiting guys who can play the 2 and this critique is downright bull. Yeah, we missed on Hart and arguably Reaves, but we have Johnson coming in, have Peak, White, Whit, etc. we enroll wings/SGs with little problem. The fact that players like DSR are now leaving early reflects just how hard it is to build a college team (that's not full of certain one and doners) in the current environment. Specifically to GU, one huge issue with the past few seasons, even dating back to the year Freeman fell ill, is the lack of consistency. The thing is, there have been so many factors - health, injuries, academics, players with no prayer of being drafted suddenly declaring for the draft - it's just been an amazing run of strange fortune that keeps us taking a step back every time it seems we may be ready to take a leap forward.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 1, 2015 14:21:40 GMT -5
if that was your point, then it's belied by current players (Tre), previous players (Starks), and current targets for 2016 (Bracey). The critique that seems valid was that JT3 should have been more prepared for DSR leaving a year early, but that's hard to do because kids want to play and DSR wasn't clearly leaving (unless it was an open secret I didn't know), which would make 2015 recruiting more difficult. Hart and Reaves are irrelevant because neither is a PG. unless we've expanded to guards in general, at which point, we've done fine recruiting guys who can play the 2 and this critique is downright bull. Yeah, we missed on Hart and arguably Reaves, but we have Johnson coming in, have Peak, White, Whit, etc. we enroll wings/SGs with little problem. The fact that players like DSR are now leaving early reflects just how hard it is to build a college team (that's not full of certain one and doners) in the current environment. Specifically to GU, one huge issue with the past few seasons, even dating back to the year Freeman fell ill, is the lack of consistency. The thing is, there have been so many factors - health, injuries, academics, players with no prayer of being drafted suddenly declaring for the draft - it's just been an amazing run of strange fortune that keeps us taking a step back every time it seems we may be ready to take a leap forward. Seriously--There's been so many "bad breaks" since we got placed in North Carolina with Davidson. I mean, off the top of my head there's Austin's diabetes, Chris Braswell not qualifying, Chris Wright breaking his wrist, Tyler Adam's heart issues and Josh and Greg Whittington's academics, along with Hollis and DSR leaving early as borderline-ish NBA draft picks.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 1, 2015 14:33:57 GMT -5
The fact that players like DSR are now leaving early reflects just how hard it is to build a college team (that's not full of certain one and doners) in the current environment. Specifically to GU, one huge issue with the past few seasons, even dating back to the year Freeman fell ill, is the lack of consistency. The thing is, there have been so many factors - health, injuries, academics, players with no prayer of being drafted suddenly declaring for the draft - it's just been an amazing run of strange fortune that keeps us taking a step back every time it seems we may be ready to take a leap forward. Seriously--There's been so many "bad breaks" since we got placed in North Carolina with Davidson. I mean, off the top of my head there's Austin's diabetes, Chris Braswell not qualifying, Chris Wright breaking his wrist, Tyler Adam's heart issues and Josh and Greg Whittington's academics, along with Hollis and DSR leaving early as borderline-ish NBA draft picks. These things happen to all programs Tbird.. The staff has to work through it.
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Post by tullamore2 on Nov 14, 2015 13:54:10 GMT -5
BUMP
Another year of poor PG play from a JT3 team. You can't win without a true PG.
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