rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 20, 2015 22:29:52 GMT -5
We handled the pressure in the backcourt. One "five second" violation, which may or may not have been a legit call. Otherwise, the problem was in the front court, once we crossed the center stripe. That's where the sloppy play took over. This dissection of "poor point guard" recruitment and play is really straining to find a negative, on a day when we should be basking in the warmth and glory of a win which few pundits foresaw. Struggling to find a negative...um no. I am sorry, but we had a 25 point lead that went away because our guards couldn't handle the pressure of getting the ball in bounds across the stripe and into the hands of others in position to be successful......and every single player on scholarship who could qualify as a guard was on the floor. A Big Sky team put more pressure on us than our talent could handle. That is sad. Maybe we need fewer 6'8" swingmen and more guys with a handle and some composure. I hope JTIII isn't constructing his team's roster to play midmajors who have nobody in their rotation over 6'7".....
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 21, 2015 8:14:03 GMT -5
Struggling to find a negative...um no. I am sorry, but we had a 25 point lead that went away because our guards couldn't handle the pressure of getting the ball in bounds across the stripe and into the hands of others in position to be successful......and every single player on scholarship who could qualify as a guard was on the floor. A Big Sky team put more pressure on us than our talent could handle. That is sad. Maybe we need fewer 6'8" swingmen and more guys with a handle and some composure. I hope JTIII isn't constructing his team's roster to play midmajors who have nobody in their rotation over 6'7"..... I must be getting old. When I was in school, we built the teams to lack significant deficiencies and to be able to defeat the range of teams we were likely to encounter during the season.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 21, 2015 8:41:30 GMT -5
Our three guards combined for 44 points and chased around a crazy shooter making him have to work hard for everything and take off-balance step-back 25-footers. Give them the credit they deserve. Yes there was a brief flurry of turnovers but only one or two were due to the press, and then we handled it fine and scored on 8 of our last 9 possessions to close it out despite several bad calls against us when we had steals or stops.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 21, 2015 9:16:22 GMT -5
I hope JTIII isn't constructing his team's roster to play midmajors who have nobody in their rotation over 6'7"..... I must be getting old. When I was in school, we built the teams to lack significant deficiencies and to be able to defeat the range of teams we were likely to encounter during the season. We'll face teams like those in the OOC portion and in the second round of the NCAA tournament. We construct our roster around smaller, quicker players then we lose our identity and some of the advantage that comes with having highly skilled players with size. When you're marching up with teams like Wisconsin you need the type of personnel we have and I just wanted to say that I think you're taking that for granted. I'd much rather have a roster built around things that'll help us compete with the elite of the sport rather than worry about how many guards we will need to offset a press when the opposing team rolls out a lineup full of guards.......I might be mistaken, but did we lose any games against those type of teams that should concern us?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 21, 2015 9:22:12 GMT -5
Our three guards combined for 44 points and chased around a crazy shooter making him have to work hard for everything and take off-balance step-back 25-footers. Give them the credit they deserve. Yes there was a brief flurry of turnovers but only one or two were due to the press, and then we handled it fine and scored on 8 of our last 9 possessions to close it out despite several bad calls against us when we had steals or stops. There is no place for your fancy facts in this discussion.
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Talos
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Post by Talos on Mar 21, 2015 9:25:12 GMT -5
I think the OP's title was poorly worded, and I do think the number of guards JTIII's put in the League is somewhat irrelevant. However, I think a couple of the original points are legitimate. My concern for next year, and a concern we've had a lot in recent years, is the small number of guards on our roster. I love DSR and Campbell, but that's only two real guards on the entire roster for next year. Sorry LJ, but until you improve your handle, shot, and on-ball defense, I think you're a 3. I don't know about anyone else, but it worries me to go into a season with only two guards on the roster. Attrition happens, whether it's short term or long term injuries, mid-season transfers, academic problems, suspensions, or even in-game foul trouble. An injury to DSR or Campbell would leave the team with only one guard on the roster; not exactly a recipe for success.
Since it appears the staff is done with recruiting for 2015, I would love to see them pick up a 5th year senior transfer guard to backup DSR and Tre for next year. That guy could be an insurance policy for next year, while freeing up the scholarship for us to bring in two guards in 2016.
And just because we had a great win on Thursday doesn't mean we can't discuss any concerns from that game or for our roster in future years....
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 21, 2015 9:49:52 GMT -5
I hope JTIII isn't constructing his team's roster to play midmajors who have nobody in their rotation over 6'7"..... I must be getting old. When I was in school, we built the teams to lack significant deficiencies and to be able to defeat the range of teams we were likely to encounter during the season. I must be getting old. When I was in school, people were happy when their team won in he NCAA tourney.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 21, 2015 10:24:44 GMT -5
I must be getting old. When I was in school, we built the teams to lack significant deficiencies and to be able to defeat the range of teams we were likely to encounter during the season. I must be getting old. When I was in school, people were happy when their team won in he NCAA tourney. Ah yes, the false notion of winning..... whereby winning a game means that there is no opportunity for self reflection and improvement when in actuality when a team wins it is frequently the fault of the loser vs. due to the actions of the winner.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 21, 2015 11:19:09 GMT -5
I must be getting old. When I was in school, people were happy when their team won in he NCAA tourney. Ah yes, the false notion of winning..... whereby winning a game means that there is no opportunity for self reflection and improvement when in actuality when a team wins it is frequently the fault of the loser vs. due to the actions of the winner. I mean, III knows how to win better than the vast majority of college coaches, is that not important anymore? Nobody is gonna be perfect, you take the good with the bad and I don't think a lack of ballhandling has been a glaring issue, we just play a different style. If you want to watch guards break down the defense on every possession then maybe you should consider following a different team, seriously. We lost to Ohio and FGCU because we couldn't play defense and slept walk through some pretty important games. We win those games and this whole discussion is moot point. You can't reasonably expect to do much better than having all of your PGs be first team all leaguers, consistently.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 21, 2015 11:30:14 GMT -5
I will follow whatever team I choose to follow and will encourage you to keep your opinions on the matter to yourself.
It is not unreasonable to point out how we struggled with high pressure against EWU and how we lack players who have the traditional skill set of a point guard.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 21, 2015 11:59:47 GMT -5
I will follow whatever team I choose to follow and will encourage you to keep your opinions on the matter to yourself. It is not unreasonable to point out how we struggled with high pressure against EWU and how we lack players who have the traditional skill set of a point guard. I was being genuine, you may not want to follow a III team at big Man U if you want to watch guards break down the defense off the dribble on every possession. We just play a different style than that and I don't know why you would follow a team who's inherent style you don't agree with and let it upset you. We didn't lose to Ohio and FGCU because we lacked ball handlers, it's because we lacked defense and a sense of urgency (two things "non-guards" like Jabril brings). Those are the reason we're having this discussion. We beat those two teams and advance to the second weekend in either tourney and we would be sitting here talking about how soon we could get III an extension.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 21, 2015 12:14:53 GMT -5
I will follow whatever team I choose to follow and will encourage you to keep your opinions on the matter to yourself. It is not unreasonable to point out how we struggled with high pressure against EWU and how we lack players who have the traditional skill set of a point guard. I was being genuine, you may not want to follow a III team at big Man U if you want to watch guards break down the defense off the dribble on every possession. We just play a different style than that and I don't know why you would follow a team who's inherent style you don't agree with and let it upset you. Answer: Because jwp91 went to Georgetown University and the sport is college basketball. He doesn't get to pick which other school to follow. It's his team. Rock, you're confusing jwp with RDF who did not go to GU. He had the liberty to change teams because of what you said. I'm not sure if you are an alum, but my fellow alumni are stuck with our love for our school and basketball program, and we'll ride its highs and lows.
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Post by bicentennial on Mar 21, 2015 12:19:10 GMT -5
Our problems with the EW press were we didn't press the pressers and once we made it over half court we slowed it down and did not look to score on the mismatches from the press. If anyone presses us again we should punish the press and press the pressers! I think with Peak and Tre plus DSR we have a decent group of 1-2 players for next year. I think White can also help out as a combo guard at times although more a 2-4 than playing point. It would be great to get another great guard for next year but unless someone seems truly special don't know that the Wattad/Sanford experiment needs to be repeated. JTIII seems to be targeting great guards just losing out for now to other teams. If we continue to play well with DSR scoring 15 plus points and getting 5 assists and 5 rebounds the next several games while Tre, Peak and Trawick take on other highly thought of guards and dominate, we may have more guards start to consider wanting to play for us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 12:26:16 GMT -5
Valed points are being made on both side but It’s a dam shame this thread is the first one we have to see in the recruiting thread the day of the most important game of the season.. C’mon guys let it go, talk about this in the offseason. As a sign of protest (haha) I will continue to bump random recruiting posts that have a more positive vibe
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 21, 2015 12:30:45 GMT -5
Our problems with the EW press were we didn't press the pressers and once we made it over half court we slowed it down and did not look to score on the mismatches from the press. If anyone presses us again we should punish the press and press the pressers! Exactly. After breaking the press, we found ourselves 2 vs 1 against a horrible defender and still the instruction was not to attack and not make them pay, instead of getting an easy basket and/or foul. JT3 put on the brake to run the shot clock. The other coach realized that he could press with 4 from the inbound and even in the half-court and not suffer the consequences because we were going to use the shot clock. JT3 needed to make them pay.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 21, 2015 12:32:32 GMT -5
I was being genuine, you may not want to follow a III team at big Man U if you want to watch guards break down the defense off the dribble on every possession. We just play a different style than that and I don't know why you would follow a team who's inherent style you don't agree with and let it upset you. Answer: Because jwp91 went to Georgetown University and the sport is college basketball. He doesn't get to pick which other school to follow. It's his team. Rock, you're confusing jwp with RDF who did not go to GU. He had the liberty to change teams because of what you said. I'm not sure if you are an alum, but my fellow alumni are stuck with our love for our school and basketball program, and we'll ride its highs and lows. Oh no, I totally agree. Just wanted to make sure he was conscious of the circumstances because it just doesn't follow that you would reasonably expect a near 180-spin in recruiting culture. IM not sure they are reasonable expectations to have for III and there's no point of getting upset over it if you're a fan for life, just embrace it. And if you don't feel unending loyalty to your alma mater I was simply suggesting finding a team that actually suits your viewing preferences, which makes sense. So far, III has done a fine job, imo. He started recruiting interchangeable, skilled wings so that we could play defense in a way that Austin and Chris' teams failed to do, so he has been successful in his attempt to correct one problem, but obviously there will always be trade offs, positives and negatives to every decision. Sure we could go back to putting a premium on guards with more PG skill sets, but then the trade off is that you might sacrifice defense, especially since there really aren't that many PGs who break you down off the dribble every play and then hound you on defense for 40 mins. Just tryin to keep reasonable expectations....is easy to idealize when you're not the one making the decisions.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 21, 2015 12:34:42 GMT -5
Valed points are being made on both side but It’s a dam shame this thread is the first one we have to see in the recruiting thread the day of the most important game of the season.. C’mon guys let it go, talk about this in the offseason. As a sign of protest (haha) I will continue to bump random recruiting posts that have a more positive vibe Just make sure you don't bump the Lat. Williams and Rosco balla threads
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 21, 2015 12:39:20 GMT -5
Answer: Because jwp91 went to Georgetown University and the sport is college basketball. He doesn't get to pick which other school to follow. It's his team. Rock, you're confusing jwp with RDF who did not go to GU. He had the liberty to change teams because of what you said. I'm not sure if you are an alum, but my fellow alumni are stuck with our love for our school and basketball program, and we'll ride its highs and lows. Oh no, I totally agree. Just wanted to make sure he was conscious of the circumstances because it just doesn't follow that you would reasonably expect a near 180-spin in recruiting culture. IM not sure they are reasonable expectations to have for III and there's no point of getting upset over it if you're a fan for life, just embrace it. And if you don't feel unending loyalty to your alma mater I was simply suggesting finding a team that actually suits your viewing preferences, which makes sense. So far, III has done a fine job, imo. He started recruiting interchangeable, skilled wings so that we could play defense in a way that Austin and Chris' teams failed to do, so he has been successful in his attempt to correct one problem, but obviously there will always be trade offs, positives and negatives to every decision. Sure we could go back to putting a premium on guards with more PG skill sets, but then the trade off is that you might sacrifice defense, especially since there really aren't that many PGs who break you down off the dribble every play and then hound you on defense for 40 mins. Just tryin to keep reasonable expectations....is easy to idealize when you're not the one making the decisions. I hear you, but instead of going into JT3 and recruiting, an annual off-season subject, let's pick this discussion up after GU's season is over in April.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 21, 2015 12:44:05 GMT -5
Oh no, I totally agree. Just wanted to make sure he was conscious of the circumstances because it just doesn't follow that you would reasonably expect a near 180-spin in recruiting culture. IM not sure they are reasonable expectations to have for III and there's no point of getting upset over it if you're a fan for life, just embrace it. And if you don't feel unending loyalty to your alma mater I was simply suggesting finding a team that actually suits your viewing preferences, which makes sense. So far, III has done a fine job, imo. He started recruiting interchangeable, skilled wings so that we could play defense in a way that Austin and Chris' teams failed to do, so he has been successful in his attempt to correct one problem, but obviously there will always be trade offs, positives and negatives to every decision. Sure we could go back to putting a premium on guards with more PG skill sets, but then the trade off is that you might sacrifice defense, especially since there really aren't that many PGs who break you down off the dribble every play and then hound you on defense for 40 mins. Just tryin to keep reasonable expectations....is easy to idealize when you're not the one making the decisions. I hear you, but instead of going into JT3 and recruiting, an annual off-season subject, let's pick this discussion up after GU's season is over in April. I agree, let's keep the "III hates recruiting PGs" to Big Man U narrative to discuss after we dismantle UK in a few weeks...
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 21, 2015 12:45:40 GMT -5
Well if every guard you have is on the floor and one of them is hurt, maybe you need to recruit more guards....which is the point. Maybe it is an appropriate time to remember the collective wisdom of this board thought we would never need a 3rd center.....yea not until the 1st tournament game. Seriously? I don't think any team outside of Kentucky and (maybe Texas with their huge but incredibly soft frontcourt) would have a valuable guy they could play as a 3rd string center. Almost every team would be playing someone out of position. The fact that we have a 3rd string center at all is actually pretty uncommon. Duke has Okafor and Plumlee, next guy they have would probably be Jefferson at 6'9 215. Wisconsin has Kaminsky and that's really it. Dukan and Brown are the other bigs off the bench but Brown only gets 6 mins and Dukan is only 220. You get 13 scholarship spots for 5 positions, 3 guards is plenty if you have wings that can also handle the ball. Yeah, we're a little thin next year, but III did his due diligence and went after 5+ guards for the incoming class, so obviously he wanted to bring one in. That alone should tell you that he's not ignoring the position. Players are also getting bigger, taller, faster, etc. I have no problem with III wanting size. The new wave of NBA pgs are almost all 6'3+ with the exception of Napier who had that miracle run in the NCAAs.
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