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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 12, 2015 18:19:52 GMT -5
You both are using numbers to justify your argument which makes you feel right but every game he comes in I hear the opposing defense yell "shooter" when he gets the ball. So that would tell me other coaches know he can shoot and have obviously told their team this. Clearly people think Cameron is a shooter, but he really hasn't shown any ability to do that at the college level. Cameron = shooter is clearly the talking point about Cameron, but the fact is that until Cameron shows that he can actually sink shots, it's meaningless. I realize he hasn't had a ton of opportunity this year, but he had plenty of time last year and didn't show much of anything. I mean, even in the Kenner reports, Cameron didn't seem to be doing great. If you aren't landing threes in Kenner, I am not sure there's much hope of things turning around real games. We could certainly use Cameron, and I hope he turns it around, but I am not really too optimistic at this point. |
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,049
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Post by dense on Jan 12, 2015 18:31:27 GMT -5
You both are using numbers to justify your argument which makes you feel right but every game he comes in I hear the opposing defense yell "shooter" when he gets the ball. So that would tell me other coaches know he can shoot and have obviously told their team this. Clearly people think Cameron is a shooter, but he really hasn't shown any ability to do that at the college level. Cameron = shooter is clearly the talking point about Cameron, but the fact is that until Cameron shows that he can actually sink shots, it's meaningless. I realize he hasn't had a ton of opportunity this year, but he had plenty of time last year and didn't show much of anything. I mean, even in the Kenner reports, Cameron didn't seem to be doing great. If you aren't landing threes in Kenner, I am not sure there's much hope of things turning around real games. We could certainly use Cameron, and I hope he turns it around, but I am not really too optimistic at this point. Once again my post wasn't a cry to play him. It was more a suggestion at breaking the stagnation and allowing more space when we face a zone. I am not suggesting he is the answer to the problems just a putty to plug a leak for 3-5 minutes when we are struggling to score. I do not think he will ever be more than a role player. Also the threat of something in basketball isn't meaningless. That is a huge mistake in logic about the game. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 12, 2015 18:36:49 GMT -5
Understood dense. I think this actually illustrates the problem. We really don't have many options, as deep as we might seem:
Guards. DSR is very good, but he's been struggling. We haven't gotten much production out of anybody else. Campbell has shown promise, and Trawick/Bowen are inconsistent.
SF: Peak has also shown flashes (and will be great eventually), but he has also been inconsistent. Bowen/Trawick again are inconsistent here. Cameron hasn't given us much.
PF: Hopkins is absolutely horrible here. White/Copeland are okay, but they haven't been consistent.
C: Smith is a very good offensive option, but we haven't been using him much and he cannot stay on the court because of foul trouble. Hopkins is again absolutely horrible on offense. He's a good defender, and basically the default backup since we have nobody better.
So, when you really look at it, we really aren't that deep. We simply need people to play better. Aside from totally benching Hopkins, I am not sure how much we can do to boost offensive output without playing better.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,180
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 12, 2015 18:38:33 GMT -5
Clearly people think Cameron is a shooter, but he really hasn't shown any ability to do that at the college level. Cameron = shooter is clearly the talking point about Cameron, but the fact is that until Cameron shows that he can actually sink shots, it's meaningless. I realize he hasn't had a ton of opportunity this year, but he had plenty of time last year and didn't show much of anything. I mean, even in the Kenner reports, Cameron didn't seem to be doing great. If you aren't landing threes in Kenner, I am not sure there's much hope of things turning around real games. We could certainly use Cameron, and I hope he turns it around, but I am not really too optimistic at this point. Once again my post wasn't a cry to play him. It was more a suggestion at breaking the stagnation and allowing more space when we face a zone. I am not suggesting he is the answer to the problems just a putty to plug a leak for 3-5 minutes when we are struggling to score. I do not think he will ever be more than a role player. Also the threat of something in basketball isn't meaningless. That is a huge mistake in logic about the game. Well, it seems that he's been inserted by III at least a couple of times against the zone but IIRC he never got off the bench against Providence, which might tell you something. |
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 12, 2015 18:39:56 GMT -5
Understood dense. I think this actually illustrates the problem. We really don't have many options, as deep as we might seem: Guards. DSR is very good, but he's been struggling. We haven't gotten much production out of anybody else. Campbell has shown promise, and Trawick/Bowen are inconsistently. SF: Peak has also shown flashes (and will be great eventually), but he has also been inconsistent. Bowen/Trawick again are inconsistent here. Cameron hasn't given us much. PF: Hopkins is absolutely horrible here. White/Copeland are okay, but they haven't been dominant. C: Smith is a very good offensive option, but we haven't been using him much and he cannot stay on the court because of foul trouble. Hopkins is again absolutely horrible on offense. He's a good defender, and basically the default backup since we have nobody better. So, when you really look at it, we really aren't that deep. We simply need people to play better. Aside from totally benching Hopkins, I am not sure how much we can do to boost offensive output without playing better. I think there was a point in the game where we had two possession where we had 4 offensive rebounds on a single possession and couldn't score. It's great that we got the rebounds against the zone but that illustrates the problem that we basically have trouble shooting from outside right now. |
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 12, 2015 18:58:06 GMT -5
Nobody is asking them to be elite or good, only passable, but so far they've been above that. Their actual skills and mechanics have improved, and their percentages are second and third best on the team. Try to deal in reality, not what you think it should be. Again, who is asking them to be assassins? Nobody. You know who were 3pt assassins under III? Jwall, to an extent Dajuan, Austin, Hollis, and for about a season A combination of DSR and Markel. You don't have to be elite to be serviceable. DSR has been hesitating too, does that not make him a good shooter either? Thinking about not shooting an open shot isn't necessarily indicative of not having the ability to shoot, in fact, it's in our offense's nature to take a split second to assess the situation upon catching the ball, and when our strength is posting up Josh it would make sense to see if there's an open entry pass before shooting. Our offense is predicated on getting the best shot available, and just because Jabril and Aaron's shooting isn't a strength of our offense doesn't automatically make it a liability either. It means that we may have better options, which we do, but at this point no one else on this team (other than Paul) has been able to capitalize on outside shooting opportunities as well as they have. And that's a fact based in reality, I don't see the problem giving them credit where it's due and also give them the benefit of the doubt until they show otherwise. They didn't just wake up one morning and shoot better percentages because of good luck, they worked at their craft and we have seen flashes of the fruits of their labor. At separate times it has been them hitting the outside shot that has made a difference in games. You keep hanging on Bowen's 3pt shooting percentage (based on a small sample size of 5/12) for this year but he has a career 26% 3pt percentage. That's the reality. His career numbers include things that have happened in the past, that is not the present reality. If our players had your mindset Otto would've never become a good 3pt shooter, and it's fine if DSR keeps shooting as poorly as he has been because his career numbers are better....that makes no sense. I don't understand how you fail to recognize one of the most crucial components of the college game, player development. Aaron hits in practice, he hits that shot when he's in the gym just shooting around, he hits consistently in warmups, and he has become better at picking his spots and shooting a good percentage. How much more evidence do you need? |
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 12, 2015 19:13:37 GMT -5
You keep hanging on Bowen's 3pt shooting percentage (based on a small sample size of 5/12) for this year but he has a career 26% 3pt percentage. That's the reality. His career numbers include things that have happened in the past, that is not the present reality. If our players had your mindset Otto would've never become a good 3pt shooter, and it's fine if DSR keeps shooting as poorly as he has been because his career numbers are better....that makes no sense. I don't understand how you fail to recognize one of the most crucial components of the college game, player development. Aaron hits in practice, he hits that shot when he's in the gym just shooting around, he hits consistently in warmups, and he has become better at picking his spots and shooting a good percentage. How much more evidence do you need? Are you at practice? how would you know. Seems to me you are just getting emotional because it's Bowen. I'm sure Hopkins and Lubick were busting their behind in practice trying to improve there shooting but I don't see you going in threads white knighting them and getting upset. |
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 12, 2015 19:41:07 GMT -5
His career numbers include things that have happened in the past, that is not the present reality. If our players had your mindset Otto would've never become a good 3pt shooter, and it's fine if DSR keeps shooting as poorly as he has been because his career numbers are better....that makes no sense. I don't understand how you fail to recognize one of the most crucial components of the college game, player development. Aaron hits in practice, he hits that shot when he's in the gym just shooting around, he hits consistently in warmups, and he has become better at picking his spots and shooting a good percentage. How much more evidence do you need? Are you at practice? how would you know. Seems to me you are just getting emotional because it's Bowen. I'm sure Hopkins and Lubick were busting their behind in practice trying to improve there shooting but I don't see you going in threads white knighting them and getting upset. Im not getting emotional haha I'm evaluating his performance in terms of what my eyes, and several others, have seen. You, on the other hand, are evaluating his performance in terms of what you think should be reality based on what has happened in the past, that has an emotional component to it. You're probably thoroughly misguided about the nature of the world we live in if you think people and things remain exactly the same from day to day, much less year to year. Don't see how that's me getting upset, and your comparisons mean nothing because Hop and Lubick didn't noticably improve. Both of their jumpers actually regressed over the course of four years....Maybe it's you that has some personal agenda against Bowen? Reports from several people who have knowledge of what happens in practice is how I know. You know things can travel by word of mouth right? If you don't believe me that's fine, I could care less, but I'm not going to sit here and list the names of who I know on the staff and on the team. It's not exactly a secret that his jumper has improved... |
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