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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 13, 2015 8:35:44 GMT -5
Problem of Dog, please tell us who the good coaches are that are clamoring to come to Georgetown? It seems like your viewpoint is based on some or all of these misconceptions: - There's a huge pool of great coaches. The pool of available good quality coaches (meaning, you get to the NCAA tournament more often than not) is actually pretty small. There really aren't many coaches who have achieved even what JT3 has achieved, and of the coaches that have done better, I cannot name one who would be likely to take the job at Georgetown. The most accomplished out there (who would consider the job) might be someone like Howland, and Georgetown would probably never touch him. - JT3 isn't very good. If you don't think JT3 is a good coach, I can see why you might think there are better options there. Again, talk to me when you find a coach who has been to the Final Four, and the NCAA tournament 7 times in 10 years who is willing to come to Georgetown. - Whoever replaces JT3 would do better. The odds actually say this is highly unlikely. As I said, how many coaches have won the Big East Tournament, won the Big East regular season, made a Final Four, and several NCAA appearances? Very few. - A top flight coach would stay at Georgetown. The great thing about JT3 is that he's a very good coach, and there is virtually no chance he will bolt for a "better" gig given his background with the university. Even if we lucked out with a young great coach, the odds he or she would leave are very high. And then you start all over again, like Butler. I don't see what is "pathetic" about recognizing that we have a very good coach who uniquely fits Georgetown better than any other viable option. Not true at all - When was the last time we have employed a coach outside of Thompson family circle? we have not had one single coach in the modern college bball era. What makes you think that no one wants to come to coach at Georgetown? If the head coach position is open here, pretty sure a lot of candidates will flock here. - You want to name all the coaches who have been to Final Four and won their conference? Pretty sure the number is not as small as you think - the number goes beyond your 10 fingers. - You guys assume that whoever replaces JT3 will do poorly. After reaching Final Four 8 years ago, and have been bounced out on the first weekend or not made the tournament since then, is that such a grand milestone that no one ever can reach? you are setting your bar of standard very low then. - If JT3 wins the NCAA tournaments 3 on a row and some NBA team wants him for millions more, there is a strong chance he will bolt for that job. What happens next? Ronnie Thompson gets hired to be the next coach here. I am not discrediting any of the things JT3 has done for the program. Besides on-court success, he represents the university very well. But such notion that no one can do a better job than JT3 needs to stop - it has been close to a decade since we have done better than first weekend of the NCAA tournament. I am pretty sure with most people on this board and at university that just like to kiss his butts for winning during regular seasons and flopping in post-season, his job will be secured as long as he wants. But like some of us here, I want this program to step forward, not stay in this limbo forever. He has finally gotten a decent recruiting class for the first time since the class of monroe, clark - which have been major excuses for JT3 proponents in flopping in the tourney. Let's see what he can work with these classes here. Perhaps my standard is low, but it is my standard and I do not consider it "limbo." Consistent qualification (and 7 of 10 counts in my book) for the NCAA Tournament is sufficient (assuming no off-court issues) by itself to merit continued employment. For me, that's the level at which I'm ensured enjoying myself watching the team perform, which frankly, is what I care about! And doing that alone is sufficiently difficult that I could not accurately predict that any other reasonably available coach could match it. How difficult is it? Well, in the current conference, only Villanova has matched or exceeded it (9 of 10). It's the basic measure of success, and in our conference, we're in no worse than second. In the ACC? Duke, Carolina, Syracuse, and Louisville. That's it. Here's what I don't want to be: NC State. Sendek takes them to the NCAA Tournament six straight years, but is forced out by disgruntled alumni because he didn't take them far enough once in the tournament. Sound familiar? And what happens? They miss the tournament for the next five straight years. Now, they look like they're on somewhat of the right path -- three straight NCAA bids with Gottfried -- but maybe he should be on the hot seat, too. After all, he's been to only one sixteen and has lost his first round game the other two times. Heck, he got to the Sweet Sixteen by beating Georgetown...so that hardly counts! Let me be clear: I'm not satisfied by regular season success and early round NCAA losses. I'm betting Coach isn't either. But "not satisfied" or "disappointed" or even "not meeting all of our goals" isn't the same thing as "we should change the coach." At least for me.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 13, 2015 9:39:48 GMT -5
Is there a point at which JT3's seat could get warm? No time soon!
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cheer48
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Post by cheer48 on Jan 13, 2015 10:21:01 GMT -5
notice brothers we are currently # 33 and 32 in the polls.....damned respectable I say !......and while I am at it, give Hopkins a break......think how badly he already feels without having to endure further derision.....switch places with him brother Hoyas
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Post by puppydog100 on Jan 13, 2015 10:34:36 GMT -5
Enough already. JT3 is not going anywhere.
GU is not going to terminate his employment, and JT3 will not be leaving because he would not be on the short list of candidates for any major program.
GU and JT3, a perfect fit.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 13, 2015 11:45:19 GMT -5
all coaches have weak spots. Recruiting is what really matters and that has improved. Hopefully that is because JTIII knows the types of assistants he now needs to get it done. Some X & O stuff is suspect, but he has his moments. I am sure if I was a fan of any other program, I could pick apart the coach. We just need some consistent March success and all will be forgotten.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 13, 2015 11:58:24 GMT -5
Not true at all - When was the last time we have employed a coach outside of Thompson family circle? we have not had one single coach in the modern college bball era. What makes you think that no one wants to come to coach at Georgetown? If the head coach position is open here, pretty sure a lot of candidates will flock here. I'm not sure what your point is here. We've only had 3 coaches in the last 40 years. For what it's worth, when Esherick was fired, you didn't have the Coach K's of the world knocking down the door. I am sure plenty of people would be interested, but how many who have had PROVEN SUCCESS at the college level? Instead, you'd get the Wojo types, who might be good but you really have no idea. So no, no proven coaches with past success will flock to Georgetown. Really, it's not as many programs as you'd think because a lot of the same people get there repeatedly. The more important question - of these coaches, how many are available, and how many would come to Georgetown? Most of these high quality coaches are currently coaching at programs as elite or more elite than Georgetown. If not, they are retired. So why would any of them leave their programs (where they often have a history) to come to Georgetown? This viewpoint is totally premised on the NCAA tournament and nothing else. You do realize that the only reason we've lost as high seeds to inferior teams is because JT3 was a good enough coach to get us there, right? Those 2 and 3 seeds don't magically fall from the sky. We could hire Esherick back. That would guarantee we never got bounced in March because we'd never get there. Again, I don't think people here are saying nobody exists that could do a better job, but (a) there actually aren't many coaches that could do better, and (b) they would be highly unlikely to coach at Georgetown. If we keep getting to the NCAA tournament, good things will happen. JT3 has proven he can continually get us there, so I am happy that he is our coach.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 13, 2015 12:32:30 GMT -5
Here are active coaches with a Final Four, with some sorting by me:
Not coming to GU for various reasons K Pitino Roy Williams Tom Izzo John Calipari Jim Boeheim (shudder) Billy Donovan Bob Huggins Thad Matta Brad Stevens Bill Self Bo Ryan Jay Wright
Really Old Dudes Larry Brown Steve Fisher Mike Montgomery
Maybe (or might be maybe, soon), but would you want them? Rick Barnes John Beilein John Brady Tom Crean (when he's inevitably fired) Lon Kruger Jim Larranaga
Gettable, but really? Paul Hewitt Tubby Smith Bruce Weber Mike Davis
Maybe, I think he's a pretty darn good coach Gregg Marshall Kevin Ollie (ok, not sure about Ollie, but benefit of the doubt) Shaka Smart
Already Employed JTIII
Now, there's plenty of good coaches who have never been to the Final Four. And certainly some young coaches who will some day. But just using it as some kind of standard, is there even one person on that list who you are confident Georgetown could lure away AND you'd want as coach over JTIII?
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 13, 2015 13:01:21 GMT -5
Thanks for pulling this together. There really is only one guy that is out there that is realistic and who the Georgetown traditionalists always want to see, and that is Shaka Smart. I think we all would be intrigued at that prospect and I do not think Shaka would have nearly as many hesitations to come to Georgetown versus the other jobs he has turned down. Other than him, I see nothing on that list that is realistic and attractive because as much as I would love to watch a Beilein coached team, he is not realistically leaving UM.
Interesting topic, but III is here to stay for at least the next several years, period.
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Post by dungeon ball on Jan 13, 2015 13:23:00 GMT -5
Thanks for pulling this together. There really is only one guy that is out there that is realistic and who the Georgetown traditionalists always want to see, and that is Shaka Smart. I think we all would be intrigued at that prospect and I do not think Shaka would have nearly as many hesitations to come to Georgetown versus the other jobs he has turned down. Other than him, I see nothing on that list that is realistic and attractive because as much as I would love to watch a Beilein coached team, he is not realistically leaving UM. Interesting topic, but III is here to stay for at least the next several years, period. I've had a thing against Beilein ever since he was at WVU and got into a tussle with PEJr on an inbounds play. Wouldn't give him the ball or something. Anybody else remember this?
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jan 13, 2015 13:29:54 GMT -5
We called him Grabby, and I can't remember why people stopped.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Jan 13, 2015 13:39:42 GMT -5
I'd take Gregg Marshall from that list, and that's about it. He is a top 5 coach nationally, and wherever he is in the coming years, will have that group challenging for national titles. Problem with him though, even if hypothetically we got him, he would have no more incentive to stay at Gtown than he would have previously had at WSU. And if some seriously juicy position came open a few years later (UCLA, Duke, UK, etc.), we would never feel safe that he wouldn't move on to the next paycheck.
JTIII has his problems. We all know that after a decade on the bench. But he is a solid recruiter (even though he had a few goose egg years), has almost always had the Hoyas ranked, and if not for losses to teams of destiny in Davidson and VCU and perhaps FGC, we wouldn't even be entertaining this discussion. Oh, and he isn't going to leave us for the next paycheck (unless he gets a shot at the NBA, but at this point, I'd say we are more than safe from that). Last year was an aberration, with a confluence of a lot of bad luck (Otto leaving, suspensions to Josh and Greg, injury to Jabril, thin recruiting class). This year is clearly a rebuilding one, where we have some great talent, but have to rely way too much on freshmen. I still think this team comes together and will be much better at the end of the season than at the beginning (which would be a happy reversal to some of the previous JTIII squads), and next year, while we may be more thin in the front court, we will have a senior DSR, a stellar Sophomore class, and another freshman class with players who can contribute immediately, with the advantage of the frosh not having to be as central to out success as they are by necessity this year.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 13, 2015 15:24:10 GMT -5
notice brothers we are currently # 33 and 32 in the polls.....damned respectable I say !......and while I am at it, give Hopkins a break......think how badly he already feels without having to endure further derision.....switch places with him brother Hoyas I agree with everything you said except the Hopkins comment. C'mon, he's a senior. I've endured watching him get stuffed, turn the ball over, miss free throws for 4 years. I'm sure he feels bad but that hole in my wall where i put my fist when he missed the last of his 6 Ft's last weekend will repair itself before I cut him any slack. 6'10, star at DeMatha, expected to be a huge part of this team. What a disappointment and wasted scholarship.
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cheer48
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Post by cheer48 on Jan 13, 2015 15:38:14 GMT -5
patience bro: it ain`t over until the fat lady sings !
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Post by dungeon ball on Jan 13, 2015 15:42:06 GMT -5
notice brothers we are currently # 33 and 32 in the polls.....damned respectable I say !......and while I am at it, give Hopkins a break......think how badly he already feels without having to endure further derision.....switch places with him brother Hoyas I agree with everything you said except the Hopkins comment. C'mon, he's a senior. I've endured watching him get stuffed, turn the ball over, miss free throws for 4 years. I'm sure he feels bad but that hole in my wall where i put my fist when he missed the last of his 6 Ft's last weekend will repair itself before I cut him any slack. 6'10, star at DeMatha, expected to be a huge part of this team. What a disappointment and wasted scholarship. Exact reason why I should've stayed away from this thread. Chill the f out. You can express frustration, but to call him a "disappointment and wasted scholarship" is way over the line, both in terms of reasoning and in terms of being a supporter of the team and its players (who I'm sure check this site out). Whittington, if his off the court antics were known before hand as some have claimed, could be a wasted scholarship. Brandon Bolden can be considered a wasted scholarship. But not a player who has worked his tail off for four years, actually contributed to the team, and represented the program very well. Yeah, he has horrible touch around the rim, and is pretty weak with the ball, but calling him a "wasted scholarship" just makes you look bad.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 13, 2015 15:43:34 GMT -5
notice brothers we are currently # 33 and 32 in the polls.....damned respectable I say !......and while I am at it, give Hopkins a break......think how badly he already feels without having to endure further derision.....switch places with him brother Hoyas I agree with everything you said except the Hopkins comment. C'mon, he's a senior. I've endured watching him get stuffed, turn the ball over, miss free throws for 4 years. I'm sure he feels bad but that hole in my wall where i put my fist when he missed the last of his 6 Ft's last weekend will repair itself before I cut him any slack. 6'10, star at DeMatha, expected to be a huge part of this team. What a disappointment and wasted scholarship. Did Hops really star at DeMatha? I've been wondering about his actual numbers. High school number gurus? How about Bolden? Now that's a wasted scholarship. Hayes? Is it a wasted scholarship if it was not going to be used anyway? Rhetorical.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 13, 2015 15:56:39 GMT -5
I'd take Gregg Marshall from that list, and that's about it. He is a top 5 coach nationally, and wherever he is in the coming years, will have that group challenging for national titles. Problem with him though, even if hypothetically we got him, he would have no more incentive to stay at Gtown than he would have previously had at WSU. And if some seriously juicy position came open a few years later (UCLA, Duke, UK, etc.), we would never feel safe that he wouldn't move on to the next paycheck. JTIII has his problems. We all know that after a decade on the bench. But he is a solid recruiter (even though he had a few goose egg years), has almost always had the Hoyas ranked, and if not for losses to teams of destiny in Davidson and VCU and perhaps FGC, we wouldn't even be entertaining this discussion. Oh, and he isn't going to leave us for the next paycheck (unless he gets a shot at the NBA, but at this point, I'd say we are more than safe from that). Last year was an aberration, with a confluence of a lot of bad luck (Otto leaving, suspensions to Josh and Greg, injury to Jabril, thin recruiting class). This year is clearly a rebuilding one, where we have some great talent, but have to rely way too much on freshmen. I still think this team comes together and will be much better at the end of the season than at the beginning (which would be a happy reversal to some of the previous JTIII squads), and next year, while we may be more thin in the front court, we will have a senior DSR, a stellar Sophomore class, and another freshman class with players who can contribute immediately, with the advantage of the frosh not having to be as central to out success as they are by necessity this year. Bird in hand?
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 13, 2015 16:00:59 GMT -5
I'd take Gregg Marshall from that list, and that's about it. He is a top 5 coach nationally, and wherever he is in the coming years, will have that group challenging for national titles. Problem with him though, even if hypothetically we got him, he would have no more incentive to stay at Gtown than he would have previously had at WSU. And if some seriously juicy position came open a few years later (UCLA, Duke, UK, etc.), we would never feel safe that he wouldn't move on to the next paycheck. JTIII has his problems. We all know that after a decade on the bench. But he is a solid recruiter (even though he had a few goose egg years), has almost always had the Hoyas ranked, and if not for losses to teams of destiny in Davidson and VCU and perhaps FGC, we wouldn't even be entertaining this discussion. Oh, and he isn't going to leave us for the next paycheck (unless he gets a shot at the NBA, but at this point, I'd say we are more than safe from that). Last year was an aberration, with a confluence of a lot of bad luck (Otto leaving, suspensions to Josh and Greg, injury to Jabril, thin recruiting class). This year is clearly a rebuilding one, where we have some great talent, but have to rely way too much on freshmen. I still think this team comes together and will be much better at the end of the season than at the beginning (which would be a happy reversal to some of the previous JTIII squads), and next year, while we may be more thin in the front court, we will have a senior DSR, a stellar Sophomore class, and another freshman class with players who can contribute immediately, with the advantage of the frosh not having to be as central to out success as they are by necessity this year. In what world is a team picked second in the league, starting three seniors and a junior who is the preseason league player of the year, a "rebuilding one"? This team was supposed to be good this year.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Jan 13, 2015 16:01:03 GMT -5
Bingo, PR.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 13, 2015 16:01:12 GMT -5
Here, here Dungeon. He has represented the school well and played some great basketball in spots he just has a knack for not finishing, getting fouls, and missing FT's. With Mikael, Tyler Adams, Whit, Porter & Jabril class, only two of five are playing. Hop has been forced to play out of position essentially his soph & junior year. Things happen but I think his D gets overlooked in terms of impact on the game.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Jan 13, 2015 16:08:20 GMT -5
I'd take Gregg Marshall from that list, and that's about it. He is a top 5 coach nationally, and wherever he is in the coming years, will have that group challenging for national titles. Problem with him though, even if hypothetically we got him, he would have no more incentive to stay at Gtown than he would have previously had at WSU. And if some seriously juicy position came open a few years later (UCLA, Duke, UK, etc.), we would never feel safe that he wouldn't move on to the next paycheck. JTIII has his problems. We all know that after a decade on the bench. But he is a solid recruiter (even though he had a few goose egg years), has almost always had the Hoyas ranked, and if not for losses to teams of destiny in Davidson and VCU and perhaps FGC, we wouldn't even be entertaining this discussion. Oh, and he isn't going to leave us for the next paycheck (unless he gets a shot at the NBA, but at this point, I'd say we are more than safe from that). Last year was an aberration, with a confluence of a lot of bad luck (Otto leaving, suspensions to Josh and Greg, injury to Jabril, thin recruiting class). This year is clearly a rebuilding one, where we have some great talent, but have to rely way too much on freshmen. I still think this team comes together and will be much better at the end of the season than at the beginning (which would be a happy reversal to some of the previous JTIII squads), and next year, while we may be more thin in the front court, we will have a senior DSR, a stellar Sophomore class, and another freshman class with players who can contribute immediately, with the advantage of the frosh not having to be as central to out success as they are by necessity this year. In what world is a team picked second in the league, starting three seniors and a junior who is the preseason league player of the year, a "rebuilding one"? This team was supposed to be good this year. It is a rebuilding year. We may not be completely empty, but in order for this team to be successful, we need at least 3 out of the 4 freshmen to be consistent and vital contributors. Hopkins may start, but we all knew coming into the season that any production from him would be a gift, Trawick's offensive game stalled out two seasons ago, and Smith as good as he has been, can't stay on the court for more than about 20 minutes a game. As far as being picked second in the league, that is great and all, but do you think this crew would have been picked top 5 in the old BE? That pick is more a reflection of the pre-season perception of BE's weakness than Gtown's own strength.
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