hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,360
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 10, 2015 14:45:23 GMT -5
Or is he coach for life due to his early Georgetown success and his dad's influence on the program?
If the Hoyas manage to miss the tournament this year, I'd think there would have to be some rumblings of him not being the right guy long-term. I think he's a terrific person and representative of the program, but wow, is he an underachiever going on 5+ years at this point. Today was one of the worst in-game coaching performances I've ever seen.
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Post by paulioz7 on Jan 10, 2015 14:57:11 GMT -5
He is coach for life. Over all good recruiter. Having Otto leave really hurt us as well as the other 6 ft9 kid that transferred really hurt this senior class. We were left with Bowen Trawick and Hopkins. Thank goodness he got Josh Smith or we would really be in trouble. Next Year will be better because based on the personnel he won't be able to play unskilled players because there won't be any. We will miss Smith's presence but our front line should still be ok. With Copeland and White. Govan just needs to rebound.
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Eurostar
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,094
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Post by Eurostar on Jan 10, 2015 15:14:43 GMT -5
He is coach for as long as he wants to be coach.
That being said, its frustrating to see our teams making the same mistakes over and over again for 10 years.
Re: losing Otto - losing one player shouldn't "really hurt us". Teams lose players to the draft all the time. One guy shouldn't destroy several years for us.
I don't think its his recruiting that has hurt us. He has recruited 2 NBA lottery picks and 5 guys who played some time in the league. This team should have 2-5 guys who play in the NBA (DSR, White, Copeland, LJ, Smith). That makes 10 years of recruiting to give you 9-12 NBA players. Thats not bad (although teams like Kentucky will get that many in 3 years). The issue, to me, is in game coaching and improving on team weaknesses over the course of the year.
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Post by michaeldm9 on Jan 10, 2015 15:16:23 GMT -5
JTIII seats needs to be warm. I think his ability to develop players is the issue. I have asked this question before, Outside Roy, who play has drastically improved under his reign. Maybe Henry. But i think Simms stayed on the bench way too long and should have had a lot more minutes before his senior year. JTII get his favorites and stick with them. Copeland Cameron, and Hayes need a lot more minutes.
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Post by paulioz7 on Jan 10, 2015 15:25:31 GMT -5
Yea but Losing Otto and Greg hurt this senior class especially if the coach leans on Trawick/Bowen who has not developed an outside game and appears to scared to play Trey Campbell down the stretch when we need outside shooting.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 10, 2015 15:26:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd rather have Tom Crean or Oliver Purnell. Or maybe bring back Craig Esherick. JT3 is not Emperor-for-Life. You'll be very hard pressed to find a coach who will want to take over this program, with all of its storied history and past glory, put up with the rigors of academia, and have as successful a run as he has. Be careful what you ask for, because you may just get it. You'll speak fondly of JT3 after he is gone, when you look in the rearview and compare what you had, to what you have in his place.
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Post by paulioz7 on Jan 10, 2015 15:32:33 GMT -5
yea I agree Henry should have played more. Some coaches are strange. If a player struggles they don't play even though the talent is there. I thought Copeland deserved more time today. He took good shots in the first half that rimmed out. Had some gone in we probably would not have seen Bowen who gave absolutely nothing today. You just can afford 6ft 5 or 6 guys that can't shoot. Thompson is committed to his seniors and outside of Josh Smith none are really starters.
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bamahoya11
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,831
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Post by bamahoya11 on Jan 10, 2015 15:41:32 GMT -5
This is big-time college basketball, so no one is every truly safe. JTIII is not on the hot seat now, though, nor should he be. If you look at his performance in the regular season, he's right up there in terms of win percentage with some of the better coaches in the game. We consistently beat ranked teams, compete for conference titles, and make the NCAA tournament. We compete in one of the best conferences in the country, and we are consistently in the conversation as a contender going into the year. Even last season when we were so short-handed, he did some of his best work in getting us to the brink of the NCAA bubble.
Of course, if you wanted to write his narrative at this point in his career, you would have to point to our shortcomings in the NCAA tournament. People forget, though, that JTIII is still a really young coach. He has been at G'town for a decade, but he still has a lot of good coaching years in front of him. If he can become a mainstay in March, and I actually think he can, he could be regarded as an elite coach. I do think he has the drive to compete for final fours and titles, and my gut tells me that he is sharp enough to get us there.
I would point out, too, that I think Hoya fans have a big interest in rooting for JTIII's mission to succeed. I think it's more likely if he didn't that the administration would consider cutting back on basketball altogether instead of firing him and spending millions on another coach. We need JTIII to succeed so that the administration, students, alums, and other fans will support the program and keep it growing in a time where athletics is consistently dominated by big-time players who make (and spend) millions of dollars on football. Compared to those programs, we are a drop in the bucket, and we need JTIII to keep the program going strong.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 10, 2015 15:45:43 GMT -5
yea I agree Henry should have played more. Some coaches are strange. If a player struggles they don't play even though the talent is there. I thought Copeland deserved more time today. He took good shots in the first half that rimmed out. Had some gone in we probably would not have seen Bowen who gave absolutely nothing today. You just can afford 6ft 5 or 6 guys that can't shoot. Thompson is committed to his seniors and outside of Josh Smith none are really starters. I agree with most of this, but it's not like people weren't playing up on Bowen....he's been a much better shooter this season and defenders don't really sag on him anymore, therefore he's no longer a "6ft 5 or 6 guy who can't shoot", his shooting ability is nearly as much of a liability in that sense. Now maybe the argument could be made that he doesn't have a reliable jumper to threaten the D, but it's not like Jabril or DSR or Peak are trying that hard to keep the defenses honest anyway.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,600
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Post by guru on Jan 10, 2015 15:59:15 GMT -5
That being said, its frustrating to see our teams making the same mistakes over and over again for 10 years. Watch yourself Euro - a few posters here have a Bat signal that alerts them to posts like this: obvious observational points that might call into question our coach's ability.
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sweetness
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 834
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Post by sweetness on Jan 10, 2015 16:06:06 GMT -5
I just don't understand what we're doing against the zone generally, and especially in these end of game situations. It's like we have not clue what we're doing and end up taking a contest, low probability shot every time.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
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Post by Elvado on Jan 10, 2015 16:15:49 GMT -5
Without sounding too crass as long as Big John is warm, III's seat is not....
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Jan 10, 2015 16:24:25 GMT -5
How much of a drop-off would there be between JTIII and Patrick Ewing?
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 10, 2015 17:04:54 GMT -5
I'm actually surprised that Patrick hasn't come down to the college level to begin his head coaching career. How much more is he going to learn as an assistant coach? I, if I were a college athletic director, would give him a shot. It's hard to say that there would or would not be a drop off from any current college coach to Patrick, let alone from JT3 to Patrick, but it's time for Ewing to have his chance as a head coach.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2015 17:45:02 GMT -5
JTIII seats needs to be warm. I think his ability to develop players is the issue. I have asked this question before, Outside Roy, who play has drastically improved under his reign. Maybe Henry. But i think Simms stayed on the bench way too long and should have had a lot more minutes before his senior year. JTII get his favorites and stick with them. Copeland Cameron, and Hayes need a lot more minutes. Hayes? HAYES? You're kidding, right? One of the key moments today - up 7 and on a run, Prov missed a shot - and Hayes has position but goes up weakly and loses the board. Prov scores, and goes on their own run. Hayes is a third string center, nothing more.
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Post by hoyacane11 on Jan 10, 2015 17:57:08 GMT -5
This is big-time college basketball, so no one is every truly safe. JTIII is not on the hot seat now, though, nor should he be. If you look at his performance in the regular season, he's right up there in terms of win percentage with some of the better coaches in the game. We consistently beat ranked teams, compete for conference titles, and make the NCAA tournament. We compete in one of the best conferences in the country, and we are consistently in the conversation as a contender going into the year. Even last season when we were so short-handed, he did some of his best work in getting us to the brink of the NCAA bubble. Of course, if you wanted to write his narrative at this point in his career, you would have to point to our shortcomings in the NCAA tournament. People forget, though, that JTIII is still a really young coach. He has been at G'town for a decade, but he still has a lot of good coaching years in front of him. If he can become a mainstay in March, and I actually think he can, he could be regarded as an elite coach. I do think he has the drive to compete for final fours and titles, and my gut tells me that he is sharp enough to get us there. I would point out, too, that I think Hoya fans have a big interest in rooting for JTIII's mission to succeed. I think it's more likely if he didn't that the administration would consider cutting back on basketball altogether instead of firing him and spending millions on another coach. We need JTIII to succeed so that the administration, students, alums, and other fans will support the program and keep it growing in a time where athletics is consistently dominated by big-time players who make (and spend) millions of dollars on football. Compared to those programs, we are a drop in the bucket, and we need JTIII to keep the program going strong. III nor anyone else will ever be considered an elite coach until you win consistently, win or compete for your conference ship consistently, or advance to the elite 8 or at least sweet 16 consistently. Recent history has us being bounced very early or not making the tourney at all. Elite is a dream at this point. Yes his seat should be warm, but he's not going anywhere because of his dad's influence. Him knowing that is not a good thing.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2015 18:16:41 GMT -5
He's not going anywhere because he is a good coach - not a great coach, but a good coach. He has competed for conference titles more often that not, has won conference and tournament titles in the toughest conference in the country. He coaches a program with substandard facilities, and with academic standards. He develops young men that the fan base can be proud of.
At the same time, the recent NCAA history has been very discouraging. He can certainly do a better job with a number of aspects, both in-game and in preparation. And you know what? I bet he would say the same thing.
It took Jim Boeheim 12 years to get to a Final Four - and 28 years to win one. We should expect our coach and our program to work, to learn, and to constantly strive to get better. When that does not happen - or when the players in our program embarrass the university - we have a different conversation
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Buckets
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,656
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Post by Buckets on Jan 10, 2015 18:22:03 GMT -5
I think the real question is between NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, NCAA Football and Basketball if there's a more secure job. I'm struggling to think of one.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 10, 2015 18:23:34 GMT -5
How much of a drop-off would there be between JTIII and Patrick Ewing? Kind of naive to think that Ewing would come here if you succeeded in your plan of pushing out the Thompsons.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 10, 2015 18:44:16 GMT -5
I think the real question is between NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, NCAA Football and Basketball if there's a more secure job. I'm struggling to think of one. You're not trying very hard. For NCAA basketball, I can think of three in the ACC right off the bat: Krzyzewski, Pitino, Williams. If it weren't for the pending NCAA sanctions, I'd add Boeheim. As for the B1G, I'd add Ryan and Motta. For college football, how about Sabin, Meyer and Harbaugh? True, there are not many other "secure" jobs. There are some, though.
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