DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 14, 2014 20:51:55 GMT -5
Among the questions: What’s the university’s stance on not giving the football teams scholarships? Why are you willing to compromise and offer scholarships in other sports but not offer scholarships in football? Is it a lack of money or is it just the way Georgetown views itself as an institution? Why was [the MSF] put on the backburner initially? Why was the Thompson Center prioritized over that? georgetownvoice.com/2014/11/14/the-full-record-with-lee-reed/
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Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 14, 2014 22:17:19 GMT -5
Among the questions: What’s the university’s stance on not giving the football teams scholarships? Why are you willing to compromise and offer scholarships in other sports but not offer scholarships in football? Is it a lack of money or is it just the way Georgetown views itself as an institution? Why was [the MSF] put on the backburner initially? Why was the Thompson Center prioritized over that?georgetownvoice.com/2014/11/14/the-full-record-with-lee-reed/This can't be serious.
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Post by puppydog100 on Nov 15, 2014 8:33:20 GMT -5
Reed is the king of double speak. With the current model, football is doomed.
Here are some questions. The Gridiron Club website has not be undated in two years. The last reported donor base and amount contributed was for the period ended June 2012. Question, what was the donor base and contributions for the periods ended June 2013 and June 2014? Is there any alumni support left?
Big changes are coming to the Partriot League. What is Georgetown's future in the PL?
Fordham University and its alumni made a commitment to excellence. In a few short years, they are now one of the top 10 1-AA programs in the country. GU model is a commitment to medicority. Our student athletes and university community deserve better than that.
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 15, 2014 8:41:00 GMT -5
GU model is a commitment to medicority. Our student athletes and university community deserve better than that. Calling us "mediocre" is an insult to mediocrity.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 15, 2014 9:36:33 GMT -5
GU model is a commitment to medicority. Our student athletes and university community deserve better than that. Calling us "mediocre" is an insult to mediocrity. That's easy to say and walk away, but I would ask: what do you want the program to be and how do you want Georgetown to go about doing it? Put aside the MSF mess. What do you, as a fan and/or donor want? It's not a matter of what Lee Reed wants, because it's not his decision. So, what is it? Do you want 85 grants, FedEx Field on Saturdays and the AAC? 63 and the CAA? 60 and the PL? 40 and the NEC? An independent schedule? Spend even less and play schools like College Of Faith?
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Post by reformation on Nov 15, 2014 10:18:10 GMT -5
If you want to direct anger at the situation it should be focused on DeGioia/BOD. The board of directors mandates that the univ compete in 29 sports. We could obviously do better if we concentrated our efforts with a real mandate for excellence in each program. I suspect nothing will change until there is a new president, and only then if its an outsider. Its probably just as likely however that football get eliminated entirely as it would be to receive a substantial upgrade under a real rational evaluation of the athletics program.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 15, 2014 12:22:39 GMT -5
Your argument would have a little more weight if the DeGioia years were some sort of aberration in sports added or dropped. No sports have been added in the DeGioia era. In fact, the last two sports to be dropped by the athletic department was women's gymnastics in 1982 and football in 1951.
The Big East schools that downgraded their departments with the "excellence" excuse have failed--St. John's, Seton Hall. The successful programs across most conferences are those that offer a broad range of sports and everybody wins (figuratively, of course).
Football's problem is not in 2nd Healy.
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 15, 2014 13:27:34 GMT -5
Calling us "mediocre" is an insult to mediocrity. That's easy to say and walk away, but I would ask: what do you want the program to be and how do you want Georgetown to go about doing it? Put aside the MSF mess. What do you, as a fan and/or donor want? It's not a matter of what Lee Reed wants, because it's not his decision. So, what is it? Do you want 85 grants, FedEx Field on Saturdays and the AAC? 63 and the CAA? 60 and the PL? 40 and the NEC? An independent schedule? Spend even less and play schools like College Of Faith? I grew up in a very baseball-centric family and went to a high school without football, so I don't have any deep interest in the sport. Frankly, I could live without having football at all. But the reality is that it does exist at Georgetown, and I've seen enough games and followed enough gameday threads over the last 10 years to point out that we aren't even mediocre. The problem, however, is not that students/alums like me aren't trying hard enough to figure out solutions for the Georgetown Athletic Department. I have my own job; I have no intention of doing Lee Reed's, too. Really, the problem isn't even that the students/alums are completely uncertain and apathetic about the football program. That can be changed over time. For instance, when I arrived on campus, I was no more invested in college basketball than I was football, but that changed because of all the positive things that happened in the program between 2003 and 2007. The real problem is that the uncertainty and apathy of the students/alums pales in comparison to that which appears to plague the University administration. They're the ones who should be deciding whether we have 85 grants or play College Of Faith. They're the ones who are tasked with deciding what the program should be and how we are going to achieve it. (If that involves collecting views and opinions from alums, then at that point, I'll think it through and offer my thoughts. But until the University cares to ask, I don't care to develop a coherent long-term vision for Georgetown football. And I don't think I need one to opine on our lackluster record on the field.) The worst thing, in my mind, is that I have no confidence that anyone within the University administration is wrestling with the issues that you raise on this board. So I guess at the end of the day, what I want as a fan and/or donor: A University with a vision and a plan, or that at least seems to be trying to develop one.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 15, 2014 14:00:21 GMT -5
Calling us "mediocre" is an insult to mediocrity. That's easy to say and walk away, but I would ask: what do you want the program to be and how do you want Georgetown to go about doing it? Put aside the MSF mess. What do you, as a fan and/or donor want? It's not a matter of what Lee Reed wants, because it's not his decision. So, what is it? Do you want 85 grants, FedEx Field on Saturdays and the AAC? 63 and the CAA? 60 and the PL? 40 and the NEC? An independent schedule? Spend even less and play schools like College Of Faith?Well that's a pretty intellectually dishonest argument. You know that football wouldn't exist at that point because that's not feasible.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 15, 2014 15:19:17 GMT -5
Well that's a pretty intellectually dishonest argument. You know that football wouldn't exist at that point because that's not feasible. On the contrary, that's the Davidson model and it's feasible because they do it and they're not going away anytime soon. I wouldn't recommend it but that's the model. This year's schedule opened with College of Faith, a phantom "college" team with no actual college, a 56-0 win. They dropped Georgetown to play these nomads. Otherwise, Davidson will finish 1-10.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 15, 2014 15:46:32 GMT -5
Well that's a pretty intellectually dishonest argument. You know that football wouldn't exist at that point because that's not feasible. On the contrary, that's the Davidson model and it's feasible because they do it and they're not going away anytime soon. I wouldn't recommend it but that's the model. This year's schedule opened with College of Faith, a phantom "college" team with no actual college, a 56-0 win. They dropped Georgetown to play these nomads. Otherwise, Davidson will finish 1-10. No. Again, football wouldn't exist at Georgetown at that point. You know that football would fold at Georgetown before playing an independent schedule of Pioneer League teams and NAIA, or worse, schools. So let's not present that as different from the Independent Schedule option.
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Post by guvoicesports on Nov 15, 2014 15:48:41 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 15, 2014 17:19:58 GMT -5
Georgetown was an independent from 1887 through 1992. It's not the best model but it's been done. I don't say that's the direction per se, but note Reed's quote: "We manage our program not through what others do. We manage our athletics program at Georgetown University through what’s best for Georgetown University, for our students, and for our student-athletes. We’re not as quick to get caught up in all of the things that other schools do." BTW, there is a Davidson model. www.davidsonwildcats.com/sports/2014/10/28/DAF_1028144643.aspx
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Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 15, 2014 18:00:24 GMT -5
And you know that the rules don't allow us to run the program at the level we did in 1992.
Again, the football program would be dead before playing an Independent schedule of Pioneer teams and sub D1 schools.
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Post by reformation on Nov 15, 2014 18:08:50 GMT -5
It is absolutely DeGioia/BOD's issue--they are the one's who set policy. Lee Reed does not. Your comparison to St John's + Seton Hall is bogus because they cannot recruit the same level as gown in anything but men's basketball. Duke, Stanford , and Northwestern have built elite activities sport by sport, adding ones that they felt that where they could be elite when resources allowed. if gown moved its schollies from women's volleyball to rowing you'd have rowing team that could compete for an NCAA title versus two mediocre programs--which do you think is better for the univ-this is just an example, we could produce many others. Football obviously poses unique resource issues, but I'm sure we could could produce a winning program at some level if the univ wanted to make some trade offs.
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Post by puppydog100 on Nov 15, 2014 20:04:52 GMT -5
DFW HOYA, what I want is a plan, a commitment from Healy to do something, as opposed to doing nothing with their collective heads in the sand.
Reed is the AD, I understand it's not his decision, however, does he have a plan to submit to DeGioia and the BOD. Doing nothing is not a plan. Saying its not my decision is a cop out. Mr. Reed, if it were your decision, what would you do?
We lost today 52 to 7. It could have been worse. No part of the game was competitive. Fordham made a commitment, the University and Alumni got behind the program, and in three short years, they are a top ten team in Division 1-AA. Fordham will not be a PL team much longer, they will be moving to greener pastures. They already thumbed their noses at the PL when they decided to go scholarship in a non-scholarship league. Only Georgetown decided not to upgrade their program, only Georgetown does to participate in the PL TV network, only Georgetown doesn't have a local radio outlet to broadcast their games. Local high school programs get more media and broadcast coverage than Georgetown football.
Enough is enough.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Nov 15, 2014 21:05:24 GMT -5
No sports have been added in the DeGioia era. Actually, I believe women's softball was added in 2006. Correct.--Admin
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Nov 15, 2014 22:00:06 GMT -5
The real problem is that the uncertainty and apathy of the students/alums pales in comparison to that which appears to plague the University administration. They're the ones who should be deciding whether we have 85 grants or play College Of Faith. They're the ones who are tasked with deciding what the program should be and how we are going to achieve it. (If that involves collecting views and opinions from alums, then at that point, I'll think it through and offer my thoughts. But until the University cares to ask, I don't care to develop a coherent long-term vision for Georgetown football. And I don't think I need one to opine on our lackluster record on the field.) The worst thing, in my mind, is that I have no confidence that anyone within the University administration is wrestling with the issues that you raise on this board. So I guess at the end of the day, what I want as a fan and/or donor: A University with a vision and a plan, or that at least seems to be trying to develop one. Well, um, I have good news, and I have bad news. The good news is: there IS a plan. And everyone who is, from a University perspective, deemed 'need-to-know' knows about this plan and accepts it. The bad news is: it's not exactly a deeply inspiring plan that will rally support, donations, and excitement. In fact, it is almost certain that this plan will never be publicized. There will be no press releases signed with -123-fireballs, no exhaustive consultant reviews, no fundraising campaigns or town halls or stakeholder meetings. The plan is not so much a plan, with concrete milestones and tollgates, as it is a general vision of what future state would be agreeable. I'm feeling like a broken record at this point, so I'll summarize it as briefly as I can: The Georgetown football plan can be labeled "Ivy League Fake It 'Til You Make It." The purpose of Georgetown's football program is to simply exist within the same general confines and footprint as is found at the Ivy League schools, serving as a living source of history and tradition. It is an Ivy-aspirational sports team for an Ivy-aspirational university.
The Ivies disregard and ignore the very notion of FCS playoffs. Instead, they maintain their programs as a historical tie to past glory and tradition; as a ready avenue for minority male students, legacies, and students from certain strategically targeted secondary schools to meet certain institutional goals; and as a social gathering for students and alumni.
The Ivies give no scholarships. Instead, they rely on the combination of generous global financial aid, elite University brand and prestige, and extensive and lucrative alumni networks to convince prospects that the mere fact of gaining entry to a school they could not otherwise attend (and this is true of the overwhelming majority of football players, both Ivy and Georgetown) is worth the personal cost of playing football and the opportunity cost of playing football elsewhere. That's really about it. It's an imperfect equilibrium that no one quite likes, but everyone - everyone who really matters, anyway - can live with. And the law of inertia applies to man-made institutions just as truly as to bodies physical and heavenly: what is static will tend, absent a great application of external force, to remain static. We lost today 52 to 7. It could have been worse. No part of the game was competitive. Fordham made a commitment, the University and Alumni got behind the program, and in three short years, they are a top ten team in Division 1-AA. Fordham will not be a PL team much longer, they will be moving to greener pastures. They already thumbed their noses at the PL when they decided to go scholarship in a non-scholarship league. Only Georgetown decided not to upgrade their program, only Georgetown does to participate in the PL TV network, only Georgetown doesn't have a local radio outlet to broadcast their games. Local high school programs get more media and broadcast coverage than Georgetown football. Not to put too fine a point on it, but... Fordham was able to make a commitment to become a top ten team in FCS. What Fordham cannot do is become a Top 25 school in USNews. They could win 10 consecutive FCS titles and it wouldn't make a lick of difference when it comes to institutional prestige, application numbers, or meaningful fundraising gains. North Dakota State has won the last three FCS titles. Has Nodak State advanced by leaps and bounds as a result? If I'm Jack DeGioia or the Board of Directors, and I'm in charge of making University-level resource allocation decisions (and, really, in charge of the University's future as a whole), I sure as shit ain't tradin' places with my counterparts at Fordham anytime soon.
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Post by puppydog100 on Nov 16, 2014 9:00:41 GMT -5
RusskyHoya, no one is saying the GU should become Fordham or North Dakota State.
However, we are not Yale, Princeton or Harvard either. "We are Georgetown!!!"
There is no reason that Georgetown cannot be the outstanding educational institution that it is, and also have a respectable, competitive football program. The Patriot League is Division 1-AA football, not the Pop Warner League were the kids play to have a good time, the score doesn't matter, and everyone wins a trophy at the end of the season for their participation.
Fordham's tenure in the Patriot League will only continue until such time that they find greener pastures, and they are actively working on that. Georgetown's continued participation in Patriot League football is also questionable. The Patriot League, and Georgetown, are going to have to make some tough decisions in the very near term. That you can take to the bank.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 16, 2014 14:27:31 GMT -5
RusskyHoya, no one is saying the GU should become Fordham or North Dakota State. However, we are not Yale, Princeton or Harvard either. "We are Georgetown!!!" There is no reason that Georgetown cannot be the outstanding educational institution that it is, and also have a respectable, competitive football program. The Patriot League is Division 1-AA football, not the Pop Warner League were the kids play to have a good time, the score doesn't matter, and everyone wins a trophy at the end of the season for their participation. Fordham's tenure in the Patriot League will only continue until such time that they find greener pastures, and they are actively working on that. Georgetown's continued participation in Patriot League football is also questionable. The Patriot League, and Georgetown, are going to have to make some tough decisions in the very near term. That you can take to the bank. I know you don't like hearing it, but Russky nailed the institutional model/attitude towards football. It's not going to change any time soon. So the Patriot League can change all it wants, but Georgetown won't.
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