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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 1, 2015 8:29:18 GMT -5
I cant believe he had 25 in his first game as a Hoya. Well, he's been double-teamed (sometimes before he even gets the ball) virtually every game since!
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Mar 1, 2015 9:14:58 GMT -5
I cant believe he had 25 in his first game as a Hoya. Well, he's been double-teamed (sometimes before he even gets the ball) virtually every game since! Last year the Hoyas had two viable outside threats. That has not been the case in most games this year. Conditioning issues aside, no opponent is going to concede the 3 foot shot to Smith when they can roll the dice on our inconsistent outside shooting.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 1, 2015 9:40:14 GMT -5
Some of people just need to realize that Josh is not very mobile. Most of his fouls come because he doesn't move his feet very well. He knows the steps for his post moves but rebounding outside of his zone, P&R, and help defense will never be his strength. Even when he is in a set position, he can't readjust quickly to drivers and tends to reach, even while keeping his arms straight and not moving.
We all know what Josh could give us, which is why so many people are disappointed. Hopefully he will be on and ready to go for the rest of his CBB career.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 1, 2015 10:01:18 GMT -5
This was just not the type of game suited to Josh. He is not Roy Hibbert. He can't be constantly put in the position to protect the rim against driving guards and forwards. They know they can just drive into him and draw fouls.
On offense, the entry passes from the wing need to come as soon as he gets position. Too often our wings hold the ball and then try to make an entry pass and either the defender denies the pass or Josh has to come out too far to get it and then is not in position to do anything with it. If the defense fronts him, then reverse the ball quickly and Josh can seal the defender and post up on the opposite side.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Mar 1, 2015 10:14:11 GMT -5
I cant believe he had 25 in his first game as a Hoya. Well, he's been double-teamed (sometimes before he even gets the ball) virtually every game since! Based on the last two years, I'll need to remember not to read too much into a performance in game 1 next year. hm
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FrazierFanatic
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 1, 2015 11:14:13 GMT -5
I completely disagree. I don't think its been an effort issue very often this year and it certainly wasn't today. If anything he is trying to do too much defensively. Maybe by "light a fire" you mean "needs to play less aggressive and therefore smarter defense," but I don't see a lack of effort at all. But even "playing smarter" is harder than it looks. He needs to hedge the screens; he can't just let a point guard run free into the lane. And lots of those times on drives he is literally just trying to get out of the way. Sure the fifth foul was stupid and so are some others, but I really don't think its an effort issue. And as for frustration, well, we haven't seen very much of that from him (this and the scorers table). Some think he should show more, and it does at least show "fire." By "light a fire" I mean staying committed and having a purpose. Not sure anyone has noticed, but Josh has gained weight again. At UCLA in the off season he would lose weight and gain it back during the season. He's done the same thing this season. With regard to playing with a purpose (AKA playing smart), I understand that there are always questionable calls on him during the course of the game...but an outright shove dead ball foul for his fifth his inexcusable. Disagree all you want....but he's got a couple of games left and he simply cannot play that poorly again. I questioned the weight gain a couple of weeks ago, and whether it showed a lack of disciplineoff the court that was leaking into his play. At this point he is what he is; our best hope may be to use him more as a conduit and a decoy, get him to move the ball more quickly and just hope we can shoot better. Of course we still need to have better entry passes.
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Post by bicentennial on Mar 1, 2015 11:33:19 GMT -5
I know we can't blame the refs but his 4th foul was again for a guy going over his back for a rebound. I have a hard time blaming a guy for getting frustrated when he has good position and is called for fouls that are clearly not his just because of his size. St. Johns is a hard matchup for him however as he does not have the lateral mobility to provide help defense. If Hayes were ready which he clearly is not this would be a game where a tall shot blocking type player with lateral mobility would be very helpful.
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Post by michaeldm9 on Mar 1, 2015 12:13:04 GMT -5
I completely disagree. I don't think its been an effort issue very often this year and it certainly wasn't today. If anything he is trying to do too much defensively. Maybe by "light a fire" you mean "needs to play less aggressive and therefore smarter defense," but I don't see a lack of effort at all. But even "playing smarter" is harder than it looks. He needs to hedge the screens; he can't just let a point guard run free into the lane. And lots of those times on drives he is literally just trying to get out of the way. Sure the fifth foul was stupid and so are some others, but I really don't think its an effort issue. And as for frustration, well, we haven't seen very much of that from him (this and the scorers table). Some think he should show more, and it does at least show "fire." Josh is a very talented player. He has size and strength. Many night his talent alone will win the battle. Name on game GTown or UCLA where you saw Josh work his but off to be the best player on the court. When the post play in the GTown is clicking on all cylinders, the offense is pretty much unstoppable. Josh should know that and have enough pride to work hard mentally and physically.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 1, 2015 12:47:32 GMT -5
I know we can't blame the refs but his 4th foul was again for a guy going over his back for a rebound. I have a hard time blaming a guy for getting frustrated when he has good position and is called for fouls that are clearly not his just because of his size. St. Johns is a hard matchup for him however as he does not have the lateral mobility to provide help defense. If Hayes were ready which he clearly is not this would be a game where a tall shot blocking type player with lateral mobility would be very helpful. Bradley may need to be ready in March (again) like he needed to be ready for last year's NIT game vs Florida State, which had a very tall frontcourt and JT3 couldn't get away with playing Caprio, Hops was MIA after 4 fouls in 6 minutes, etc...
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 1, 2015 13:04:48 GMT -5
I know we can't blame the refs but his 4th foul was again for a guy going over his back for a rebound. I have a hard time blaming a guy for getting frustrated when he has good position and is called for fouls that are clearly not his just because of his size. St. Johns is a hard matchup for him however as he does not have the lateral mobility to provide help defense. If Hayes were ready which he clearly is not this would be a game where a tall shot blocking type player with lateral mobility would be very helpful. Bradley may need to be ready in March (again) like he needed to be ready for last year's NIT game vs Florida State, which had a very tall frontcourt and JT3 couldn't get away with playing Caprio, Hops was MIA after 4 fouls in 6 minutes, etc... Hopkins has done a much better job of staying out of foul trouble as the backup 5. I have no doubt there will be a game where this becomes an issue again and I think our only viable option is to go small. Instead of 6'5 Caprio we have 6'8 and 6'9 White and Copeland and while they are far from stellar defensively, Hayes for all his size and relative mobility isn't any better. If Hop can shoot 65%ish from the FT line the rest of the way (which I think he has also improved on through the course of the season) he'll be more than serviceable at the 5, add in Josh's 5 fouls and I think we can hold off a little longer on the Hayes experiment. The difference is Josh wasn't available AT ALL last year so we really only had Hop at the 5, now that III has learned not to play them together we have a little more latitude. In the foul fest at MSG Hopkins was never in any foul trouble and I think that's a significant improvement.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 1, 2015 13:06:50 GMT -5
We had 30 fouls vs FSU. At that rate, you need everyone.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 1, 2015 13:15:33 GMT -5
I completely disagree. I don't think its been an effort issue very often this year and it certainly wasn't today. If anything he is trying to do too much defensively. Maybe by "light a fire" you mean "needs to play less aggressive and therefore smarter defense," but I don't see a lack of effort at all. But even "playing smarter" is harder than it looks. He needs to hedge the screens; he can't just let a point guard run free into the lane. And lots of those times on drives he is literally just trying to get out of the way. Sure the fifth foul was stupid and so are some others, but I really don't think its an effort issue. And as for frustration, well, we haven't seen very much of that from him (this and the scorers table). Some think he should show more, and it does at least show "fire." Josh is a very talented player. He has size and strength. Many night his talent alone will win the battle. Name on game GTown or UCLA where you saw Josh work his but off to be the best player on the court. When the post play in the GTown is clicking on all cylinders, the offense is pretty much unstoppable. Josh should know that and have enough pride to work hard mentally and physically. That's a wholly subjective standard and whatever game I say you can say that he didn't "work his butt off to be the best player on the floor." But, to just pick one in which I thought he worked very hard on both ends of the court, I'd say OT win vs Marquette. 30+ minutes. 18 and 15. It's easy to say, as I assume you now will, "well, he should be doing that every night," but if teams are literally doubling the entry pass, all he can do to be engaged on offense is set picks and look to get offensive rebounds. And, of course, if he tries too hard to get offensive rebounds and gets a single over the back call, people on here will be after him to not be so stupid. So...I have a hard time faulting him offensively. (Sure, some games he's missed a fair number of bunnies and/or a number of FTs, but his overall percentage on the former is terrific and on the latter, it's OK (64%).) He is always limited defensively against quicker players. Always will be. Sometimes that results in what appear to be silly fouls but are simply the result of a quicker player running into a slower player and getting a call in a situation in which there is nothing he can do (short of shoveling a hole in the ground and falling into it). Sometimes (like last night's fifth foul), he really does commit silly fouls (who doesn't?). And, sometimes, he commits the same sort of usual fouls that everyone commits from time to time. Add 'em up, and it's hard for him to stay out there, but it doesn't mean he's not working hard. I certainly don't think he's a perfect player. Far from it! For one thing, I share the criticism that he needs to do better not contesting shots he doesn't need to contest (that one mid-range jumper last night that he contested for example and got a foul). And I think he needs to improve the mental aspect of defensive basketball, if only by realizing his limitations, even if it results in an easy hoop here or there. But I wouldn't phrase either criticism as one involving effort. I mean, sure, there are games he hasn't been great and his body language is always such that someone looking to criticize him for "not caring" will find fodder. But, goodness, everyone has had some blase games this year -- everyone always does. Remember the beginning of the year when DSR was off or the many times where he hasn't seemed to assert himself? How bout the majority of the games where Mikael tries multiple post moves that have no chance of success except by luck? Those are two of our veterans -- just like Josh. I'm not taking shots at those guys -- to the contrary, I raise them to show that there are blessedly few players in this world that give their A effort and are rewarded with an A performance every game. Just because you don't get an A performance doesn't mean you didn't get A effort.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 1, 2015 14:51:51 GMT -5
I know we can't blame the refs but his 4th foul was again for a guy going over his back for a rebound. I have a hard time blaming a guy for getting frustrated when he has good position and is called for fouls that are clearly not his just because of his size. St. Johns is a hard matchup for him however as he does not have the lateral mobility to provide help defense. If Hayes were ready which he clearly is not this would be a game where a tall shot blocking type player with lateral mobility would be very helpful. Bradley may need to be ready in March (again) like he needed to be ready for last year's NIT game vs Florida State, which had a very tall frontcourt and JT3 couldn't get away with playing Caprio, Hops was MIA after 4 fouls in 6 minutes, etc... FSU did not have a very big front court. In fact, they played three guards the majority of the game. GU's centers stats were as "impressive" or "unimpressive" as the 'Noles: Hopkins played 6 minutes, 0-1 from the field, 4 fouls, no points; Abraham played 15 minutes, 0-1 from the field, 2-2 from the line, 6 rebounds (2 offensive), 1 steal, 1 block, 1 turnover, 3 fouls, 2 points; Hayes played 13 minutes, 1-2 from the field, 2-2 from the line, 4 rebounds (1 offensive), 1 steal, 2 turnovers, 4 fouls and 4 points. For FSU, Oto played 9 minutes, 1-1 from the field, 0-1 from the line, 1 rebound, 2 turnovers, 2 fouls and 2 points, and Bojanovsky played 24 minutes, 2-2 from the field, 2-3 from the line, 4 rebounds (1 offensive), 2 assists, 1 block, 3 fouls and 6 points. That was not the difference in the game. Hayes, though, may have been the difference, in that with the score 36-33 FSU with 2:21 to play in the first half, he picked up a foul and matching technical with Bojanovsky, That's when it got out of reach: 2:05 FSU 3 point basket 1:46 GU turnover by Smith-Rivera 1:31 FSU 3 point basket 1:33 Cameron missed a jumper 1:21 FSU dunk 1:13 GU timeout (yes, JT3 did call a timeout to try to stop a run) 1:02 Smith-Rivera hits two foul shots 0:51 FSU 3 point basket, and a foul shot on a foul by Bowen to complete a 4 point play 0:32 Smith-Rivera missed a 3 point shot 0:04 FSU missed a 3 point shot In just over two minutes, the FSU lead ballooned to 48-35 at the half. FSU shot 68.2% from the field, and 68.8% on three-point shots (11-16) for the game. I don't remember any big men taking any three-point shots. It was the Seminole guards that killed us. The continuing narrative that (a) JT3 has failed to use Hayes enough such that he can help us win in March, and (b) Hayes is capable of being the difference in a March game, is beyond tiresome. Weeks ago I inquired as to whether anyone had seen anything in Hayes's on-court play to justify additional playing time. I am still waiting for an example of what he has done. This is not meant to denigrate Hayes; he is a third-string center. If any NCAA team is counting on big contributions from a third-string center to prolong their season, they are in trouble, and there is nothing that changes that formula.
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Post by bicentennial on Mar 1, 2015 15:30:51 GMT -5
Again as I said in my above post I see no evidence Hayes is ready to play. I was just bemoaning not having a fast, exceedingly tall player with good lateral mobility but strong enough to play center in the Big East. Clearly Hayes is tall and fast but does not currently as a Junior have the strength or skills to justify playing time. If he did it would change the complexion of what we could achieve. I am not arguing for more playing time for Hayes. I do feel Hopkins provides very good mobility on D but is just not quite tall enough to be dominant when the primary defender is beaten. Hayes is that tall but has not developed the needed skills. Unfortunately for Hopkins you can't teach height.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 15:53:16 GMT -5
Josh is a very talented player. He has size and strength. Many night his talent alone will win the battle. Name on game GTown or UCLA where you saw Josh work his but off to be the best player on the court. When the post play in the GTown is clicking on all cylinders, the offense is pretty much unstoppable. Josh should know that and have enough pride to work hard mentally and physically. That's a wholly subjective standard and whatever game I say you can say that he didn't "work his butt off to be the best player on the floor." But, to just pick one in which I thought he worked very hard on both ends of the court, I'd say OT win vs Marquette. 30+ minutes. 18 and 15. It's easy to say, as I assume you now will, "well, he should be doing that every night," but if teams are literally doubling the entry pass, all he can do to be engaged on offense is set picks and look to get offensive rebounds. And, of course, if he tries too hard to get offensive rebounds and gets a single over the back call, people on here will be after him to not be so stupid. So...I have a hard time faulting him offensively. (Sure, some games he's missed a fair number of bunnies and/or a number of FTs, but his overall percentage on the former is terrific and on the latter, it's OK (64%).) He is always limited defensively against quicker players. Always will be. Sometimes that results in what appear to be silly fouls but are simply the result of a quicker player running into a slower player and getting a call in a situation in which there is nothing he can do (short of shoveling a hole in the ground and falling into it). Sometimes (like last night's fifth foul), he really does commit silly fouls (who doesn't?). And, sometimes, he commits the same sort of usual fouls that everyone commits from time to time. Add 'em up, and it's hard for him to stay out there, but it doesn't mean he's not working hard. I certainly don't think he's a perfect player. Far from it! For one thing, I share the criticism that he needs to do better not contesting shots he doesn't need to contest (that one mid-range jumper last night that he contested for example and got a foul). And I think he needs to improve the mental aspect of defensive basketball, if only by realizing his limitations, even if it results in an easy hoop here or there. But I wouldn't phrase either criticism as one involving effort. I mean, sure, there are games he hasn't been great and his body language is always such that someone looking to criticize him for "not caring" will find fodder. But, goodness, everyone has had some blase games this year -- everyone always does. Remember the beginning of the year when DSR was off or the many times where he hasn't seemed to assert himself? How bout the majority of the games where Mikael tries multiple post moves that have no chance of success except by luck? Those are two of our veterans -- just like Josh. I'm not taking shots at those guys -- to the contrary, I raise them to show that there are blessedly few players in this world that give their A effort and are rewarded with an A performance every game. Just because you don't get an A performance doesn't mean you didn't get A effort. Leaving the question about whether Josh works as hard as he can out there, if he is being doubled in the post the team has to find a way to hit the open man on the weak side for an open look. This depends on crisp passing and decisiveness which we didnt see in most of our offensive sets. Hopkins got one wide open dunk out of it, but there weren't many other plays like that. If we're playing 4-3 -- really 3-2 on the weak side -- stack that side with DSR/Trawick-Peak/Trawick-Copeland and let whoever is open shoot the 3, drive to the basket of flush the open dunk......
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 1, 2015 19:21:42 GMT -5
I completely disagree. I don't think its been an effort issue very often this year and it certainly wasn't today. If anything he is trying to do too much defensively. Maybe by "light a fire" you mean "needs to play less aggressive and therefore smarter defense," but I don't see a lack of effort at all. But even "playing smarter" is harder than it looks. He needs to hedge the screens; he can't just let a point guard run free into the lane. And lots of those times on drives he is literally just trying to get out of the way. Sure the fifth foul was stupid and so are some others, but I really don't think its an effort issue. And as for frustration, well, we haven't seen very much of that from him (this and the scorers table). Some think he should show more, and it does at least show "fire." By "light a fire" I mean staying committed and having a purpose. Not sure anyone has noticed, but Josh has gained weight again. At UCLA in the off season he would lose weight and gain it back during the season. He's done the same thing this season. With regard to playing with a purpose (AKA playing smart), I understand that there are always questionable calls on him during the course of the game...but an outright shove dead ball foul for his fifth his inexcusable. Disagree all you want....but he's got a couple of games left and he simply cannot play that poorly again. How the F do you know he's gained weight? Go grind your axe somewhere else.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Mar 2, 2015 5:52:02 GMT -5
a pathetic game by smith against st johns. fouled out in 8 minutes. i found out all i need to know about smith when he two hand shoves a player for no reason to get his 5th foul then laughs about it on the bench when the team is down 10+ points. he hurts the team much more defensively than he helps it offensively.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 2, 2015 9:56:55 GMT -5
a pathetic game by smith against st johns. fouled out in 8 minutes. i found out all i need to know about smith when he two hand shoves a player for no reason to get his 5th foul then laughs about it on the bench when the team is down 10+ points. he hurts the team much more defensively than he helps it offensively. Despite everything said in the posts, this last point pretty well sums up what we all knew, and feared, about Josh going into this season. Josh can, and occasionally does, provide a big help on offense. But his defense weakness is a big reason we haven't been the dominant defense team we've been in the past and the reason we aren't a solid top 25 team now. His lack of mobility puts pressure on other 4 players to help out underneath thereby leaving open all those 3 point shooters. I'm not an x's and o's guy but i can't help but wonder if we should never play man defense when Josh is on the court. Let him fill up the lane in a 2-3 zone. Maybe also cut down on his stupid fouls away from the ball.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 2, 2015 10:09:36 GMT -5
Josh's defense is weak but he only played for 8 minutes the last game and the defense was really weak in the other 32 minutes as well. I do agree, though, that if he's not giving us offensive production overall he hurts us.
All that being said, he's still our only chance of getting a good offensive game from a post player. We need him to be extra focused from now through the end of our season.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 3, 2015 11:22:21 GMT -5
You have to wonder what would have happened if Tyler Adams had played. Put up impressive numbers in High School but it was a Mass high school. If I recall so did Nate Lubick. WE saw how that worked out...
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