DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 2, 2005 16:35:22 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2005 18:07:45 GMT -5
'Nique said he was "SHOCKED!" he didn't get in and that others would as well. C'mon. First Ballot HOF'ers are the best of the best. 'Nique was a very good player (Barkley says the most underrated of his era), but all time great? Nonsense. |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 2, 2005 19:42:11 GMT -5
That makes 4 from the Big East right?
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Apr 2, 2005 20:01:30 GMT -5
Boeheim and Calhoun are deserving. Congratulations.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Apr 2, 2005 20:38:36 GMT -5
'Nique said he was "SHOCKED!" he didn't get in and that others would as well. C'mon. First Ballot HOF'ers are the best of the best. 'Nique was a very good player (Barkley says the most underrated of his era), but all time great? Nonsense. I agree with 'Nique here. The HoF voting process in almost every sport is ridiculous and the idea of "first ballot" or "second ballot" is even more ridiculous. Is Dominique Wilkins a Hall of Famer? That's the question. The answer is "yes." Put him in. James Worthy was voted one of the 50 greatest NBA players of all time and had to wait until his fourth try I believe. How stupid is that? If a guy deserves to be in, put him in. What will 'Nique have done between now and next year that makes him any better a candidate? |
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 2, 2005 20:51:25 GMT -5
I agree with 'Nique here. The HoF voting process in almost every sport is ridiculous and the idea of "first ballot" or "second ballot" is even more ridiculous. Is Dominique Wilkins a Hall of Famer? That's the question. The answer is "yes." Put him in. James Worthy was voted one of the 50 greatest NBA players of all time and had to wait until his fourth try I believe. How stupid is that? If a guy deserves to be in, put him in. What will 'Nique have done between now and next year that makes him any better a candidate? That's why hall of fames need to institute the pyramid scheme that Bill Simmons came up with. |
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Apr 2, 2005 23:44:56 GMT -5
'Nique said he was "SHOCKED!" he didn't get in and that others would as well. C'mon. First Ballot HOF'ers are the best of the best. 'Nique was a very good player (Barkley says the most underrated of his era), but all time great? Nonsense. Did you watch Dominique play?? Very good? He carried Hawks and actually had fans supporting them which is an amazing feat considering how pathetic the fans are in Atlanta for their home teams. He had his path to the Finals blocked by the Celtics and Pistons and then later on the Bulls--but his injured achilles took his game down a notch by time Jordan was running things in NBA. I still remember that shootout Dominique and Bird had in the Classic Game 7 where Brent Musburger says "You are witnessing what GREATNESS is all about" because it was so back and forth with both stars stepping up to carry their teams. Dominique Wilkins deserves to be in the Hall of Fame ahead of Boeheim and Calhoun. Players are what the sport is about--then coaches, not vice versa. And to think of these two who run dirty programs and are known to have/still do run dirty programs. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2005 0:42:46 GMT -5
Did you watch Dominique play?? Very good? He carried Hawks and actually had fans supporting them which is an amazing feat considering how pathetic the fans are in Atlanta for their home teams. He had his path to the Finals blocked by the Celtics and Pistons and then later on the Bulls--but his injured achilles took his game down a notch by time Jordan was running things in NBA. I still remember that shootout Dominique and Bird had in the Classic Game 7 where Brent Musburger says "You are witnessing what GREATNESS is all about" because it was so back and forth with both stars stepping up to carry their teams. Dominique Wilkins deserves to be in the Hall of Fame ahead of Boeheim and Calhoun. Players are what the sport is about--then coaches, not vice versa. And to think of these two who run dirty programs and are known to have/still do run dirty programs. I totally agree about players before coaches the overwhelming majority of the time, especially in this case. But I stand by what I said - Wilkins was a VERY GOOD player, NOT a great. Especially in the NBA, superstars are judged by how they carry their team - I believe your favorite example is Mr. Garnett? The point I was just trying to make is that if there is such a thing as "first ballot" or "second ballot" hall of famer, I am not SHOCKED - as 'Nique said we all would be when we heard the news - that he didn't make it in on his first go-round. He's simply not viewed as an all-time great (rightly or wrongly) by the majority of the people who "matter" when it comes to the NBA HOF. That being said, I think he does deserve to be in. I'm just not SHOCKED at the outcome of the voting, RDF. That was my point - I was commenting more on the voting process (which I figured would exclude him for at least a round of voting or two) than Wilkins himself. I shoulda been a bit clearer. |
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Apr 3, 2005 0:44:08 GMT -5
I loved watching Dominique. Of course, the next minute of defense he plays will probably be his first, but nevertheless, he truly was a human highlight film.
And this may be blasphemy coming from a lifetime Laker fan, but I think Dominique was better than Worthy. Worthy was a perfect complimentary piece for the Lakers, much better than Dominique would have been, but Worthy couldn't carry a team night in and night out like Dominique could. That was proven the year Magic retired, when Worthy became the #1 option and main go to guy, and his numbers dropped considerably.
I also remember watching the Bird-Dominique shoot-out. It was fantastic basketball.
I would have voted for Dominique. And I also would have had him on the 50 all time best list.
Dominique also got screwed in that famous slam dunk competition with Jordan.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Apr 3, 2005 2:25:51 GMT -5
I totally agree about players before coaches the overwhelming majority of the time, especially in this case. But I stand by what I said - Wilkins was a VERY GOOD player, NOT a great. Especially in the NBA, superstars are judged by how they carry their team - I believe your favorite example is Mr. Garnett? The point I was just trying to make is that if there is such a thing as "first ballot" or "second ballot" hall of famer, I am not SHOCKED - as 'Nique said we all would be when we heard the news - that he didn't make it in on his first go-round. He's simply not viewed as an all-time great (rightly or wrongly) by the majority of the people who "matter" when it comes to the NBA HOF. That being said, I think he does deserve to be in. I'm just not SHOCKED at the outcome of the voting, RDF. That was my point - I was commenting more on the voting process (which I figured would exclude him for at least a round of voting or two) than Wilkins himself. I shoulda been a bit clearer. I get your point, but carrying the likes of John Battle, Dan Roundfield, Tree Rollins, Spud Webb, Randy Wittman, and Scott Hastings past Boston and Detroit is a bit different than Garnett not being able to win a damn Playoff Series. If KG would consistently win at least a round, then there wouldn't be a peep out of me as you can't help what happens when overmatched against a superior team, but to not be able to win a playoff series--Nique could do that by himself. As Rooter said he's one of the top 50 players to lace them up and while his defense could be criticized, so could that of anyone who didn't play for Detroit during the '80s. Larry Bird still hasnt' guarded a soul and Magic Johnson wasn't a noted defensive stopper either. Detroit brought defense to NBA and then Knicks took it to a different level of hand to hand combat. As for rest of the discussion, I understand your points and while I think both Coaches are HOF worthy, I just feel slighting players for coaches stinks. Oh well, nothing else to say other than it's nice to see that buying players gets you into the HOF as the "Dirty Duo".  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2005 11:25:23 GMT -5
RDF - just curious: who would you take off the Top 50 list to put 'Nique on? Worthy? Pippen?
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Apr 3, 2005 12:12:08 GMT -5
Pippen would be gone from my list, Worthy would be gone but I think he's a HOF player--remember Basketball is one HOF--so his college exploits combined with Pro equate to him being a lock there, but Pippen was a nice complimentary player, not an elite top 50 player of All Time. Nique was comparable to Barkley too, but Barkley was more vocal. Nique could rebound with anyone and to be honest, he was equal if not better than Dr. J was in terms of being an all around player.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 4, 2005 8:31:05 GMT -5
He scored 26,668 points, that's 9th all time (was 7th when he retired)...he could take over a game single-handedly...and anyone who could go toe to toe with Basketball Jesus definitely deserves to be first ballot.
Scottie Pippen? Please. Dominique would have embarassed him in his prime. Worthy? That's laughable.
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