Boz
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Post by Boz on Feb 18, 2014 8:46:21 GMT -5
What happens when the friday night game at the BET is given away for $40.00 on the street. I may be wrong but attendance looks to be pretty light going into the Garden in March. How far away is this league from a rotating tourney. VCU and SlU are not the answer. 'Sup Mopey McGee? How 'bout we wait until the tournament, you know, actually happens before we declare it a disaster? I got my ticket for the Georgetown-Pitt final in 2007 for $40 on the street. There was a pretty good crowd at that game. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 18, 2014 9:56:46 GMT -5
I have followed the ticket market for Big East tickets fairly closely the last several years, and the price for the tickets in the finals have in some cases actually been cheaper than the tickets in the semifinals, depending on the matchup. For example, in the past, if Syracuse was playing on Friday night, those tickets would often go for more money than tickets for the final the following day.
If we want attendance to be optimal for the finals, we should hope that two northeastern teams make the final. It seems fairly likely that Villanova will be a good contender to make the finals, and they would have a nice close fan base to come to MSG. Otherwise, it's tougher. Creighton and Xavier would likely draw less fans than St. John's or Georgetown, even though Creighton is the better team.
Despite what it would do to attendance, Creighton-Villanova is probably still the best BET finals outcome not involving Georgetown (I say this from the self-interested Georgetown perspective of course), since it would provide a big platform for two very good teams to fight it out.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 18, 2014 10:44:41 GMT -5
I have followed the ticket market for Big East tickets fairly closely the last several years, and the price for the tickets in the finals have in some cases actually been cheaper than the tickets in the semifinals, depending on the matchup. For example, in the past, if Syracuse was playing on Friday night, those tickets would often go for more money than tickets for the final the following day. If we want attendance to be optimal for the finals, we should hope that two northeastern teams make the final. It seems fairly likely that Villanova will be a good contender to make the finals, and they would have a nice close fan base to come to MSG. Otherwise, it's tougher. Creighton and Xavier would likely draw less fans than St. John's or Georgetown, even though Creighton is the better team. Despite what it would do to attendance, Creighton-Villanova is probably still the best BET finals outcome not involving Georgetown (I say this from the self-interested Georgetown perspective of course), since it would provide a big platform for two very good teams to fight it out. Point taken, but have you seen the Creighton/Nova match ups this season? Yikes. |
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 18, 2014 12:42:01 GMT -5
If we want attendance to be optimal for the finals, we should hope that two northeastern teams make the final. It seems fairly likely that Villanova will be a good contender to make the finals, and they would have a nice close fan base to come to MSG. Otherwise, it's tougher. Creighton and Xavier would likely draw less fans than St. John's or Georgetown, even though Creighton is the better team. Related note: Andy Katz I believe did a blurb several weeks ago on the Big East Tournament attendance. According to the stat he cited, the Big East school that sold the most tickets to this year's BET is...the one in Omaha. |
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hoyaloya
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Post by hoyaloya on Feb 18, 2014 12:55:59 GMT -5
hoyainspirit: I take your point and you are correct re the conference. But the BET seedings would be determined on the division standings with the first 2 teams in each division getting the first round byes. That is where the equality of schedule is important. There may be an effect on the national rankings but isn't there some consideration given in assessing the teams whether a loss was at home or away? YOur thoughts?
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Feb 18, 2014 13:22:03 GMT -5
Best final for the league/ticket sales this year is SJU v. Creighton - the Omahomers will be here in strength and I believe any of the three new schools that looks to contend will send a lot of fans in the future. If WVU can get into it, and they sure did, than so can X, Butler and Creighton.
there is a 100% reliable way to gauge such things, taking full advantage of the airlines advanced metrics/algorithms. Simple search airfare from Omaha to NYC the weekend of the tournament ($560 minimum, all flights showing limited seats) vs the weekend after ($354 minimum, most flights showing lots of seats). It's simple, it's easy and it actually works - just try getting a flight into New Orleans during Jazzfest and you will see).
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 18, 2014 13:26:21 GMT -5
hoyainspirit: I take your point and you are correct re the conference. But the BET seedings would be determined on the division standings with the first 2 teams in each division getting the first round byes. That is where the equality of schedule is important. There may be an effect on the national rankings but isn't there some consideration given in assessing the teams whether a loss was at home or away? YOur thoughts? I guess I have difficulty seeing a scenario where out of 16 conference games, only 5 are at home every other year. The road division appears to me to suffer a huge disadvantage in many ways - competitively, from a scheduling standpoint, financially... I do believe that if we added two teams down the road (and I believe we will at some pt in the not too distant future), the powers that be would consider divisions, though. As it stands now, I like the home and home at 10 teams. |
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hoyaloya
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Post by hoyaloya on Feb 19, 2014 1:46:01 GMT -5
hoyainspirit, I agree that 12 is coming. I like the schedule equality of the ten teams playing home and home but 18 games are too many given that there are more games in the post season BET. I like the flexibility that 16 gives to add quality opponents like Syracuse and Gonzaga. But I take your point regarding the all away every other year rather than 3 and 3. My fear of unequal schedules influencing BET seedings could be solved if the seeding were done based solely on intra-division games. How's that for a compromise?
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 19, 2014 10:09:41 GMT -5
Well, it seems to me to be an awkward fix for a problem that does not have to be. As well, that does not address the issues of scheduling and $, and others of which I have not thought. If (when) we go to 12, and if we go to divisions, what's wrong with 3 and 3? It's simple, and it works. I guess I just don't see the necessity of everyone playing the exact same schedule regarding home and away, especially if it causes such home-road imbalance. I think this may be one about which we have to agree to disagree.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 19, 2014 10:33:21 GMT -5
Well, it seems to me to be an awkward fix for a problem that does not have to be. As well, that does not address the issues of scheduling and $, and others of which I have not thought. If (when) we go to 12, and if we go to divisions, what's wrong with 3 and 3? It's simple, and it works. I guess I just don't see the necessity of everyone playing the exact same schedule regarding home and away, especially if it causes such home-road imbalance. I think this may be one about which we have to agree to disagree. I think it's unlikely that the Big East would adopt a scheduling system that calls for such a home-road imbalance. I doubt the coaches would go for it, because it would greatly impact a team's schedule and ability to make the post-season, depending on what year in the cycle it is. 3 and 3 is far more likely, I would think. Obviously, whenever you have a system where you don't play everybody twice, it's imbalanced, but that was true in the old Big East too. |
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Feb 19, 2014 10:37:03 GMT -5
This conference needs a push from schools that attract crowds. Still wish that we could add Memphis, UConn, Temple and Cincy, but I understand the football dynamic right now. The real problem is too many empty gyms. I hate to watch the BE schools play in front of empty seats. St. Louis offers crowds, like Creighton and Xavier. Not certain where else to go but VCU has lost some appeal.
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hoyaloya
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Post by hoyaloya on Feb 19, 2014 13:25:55 GMT -5
calhoya: does St Louis offer "crowds like Creighton and Xavier..."? I thought attendance was a problem there. No doubt due to a lack of googling skills, I have not found figures. Do you have any?
As for VCU, I do not understand the knock on it; it has been a good program over the last 10 years.
hoyasaxa2003: "... it's imbalanced, but that was true in the old Big East too." I know, that was what I was trying to "fix". I give up on the all-away/all-home in alternating seasons. My Plan B was that the BET seedings be determined only on intra-division games [assuming there is a 12 team/2 division configuration in the near future].
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 19, 2014 13:35:21 GMT -5
calhoya: does St Louis offer "crowds like Creighton and Xavier..."? I thought attendance was a problem there. No doubt due to a lack of googling skills, I have not found figures. Do you have any? As for VCU, I do not understand the knock on it; it has been a good program over the last 10 years. hoyasaxa2003: "... it's imbalanced, but that was true in the old Big East too." I know, that was what I was trying to "fix". I give up on the all-away/all-home in alternating seasons. My Plan B was that the BET seedings be determined only on intra-division games [assuming there is a 12 team/2 division configuration in the near future]. A bit of an older article but SLU's attendance was increasing in 2012 but is still around 6-8k www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog/2012/02/college-basketball-fires-up-attendance.html?page=allInteresting tidbit from that, not sure if still in affect, but SLU does not charge students for tickets to their games. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 19, 2014 14:02:45 GMT -5
While I do think attendance is important, I think that quality basketball is the most important aspect. If we expand further, we need programs with a history of success because we want an excellent conference. I think the downside of adding a program like DePaul (low attendance, low success rate) is really huge because once a team enters the conference, they are unlikely to ever leave.
The reason I am less concerned with attendance is because success usually brings attendance. It's true that some schools will always draw well regardless of quality (like Dayton), but if you put a good product out, you will generally draw well.
My biggest concern with a school like St. Louis would be whether they truly are going to have high-quality teams in the future. I really think Wichita State should be in any expansion discussions. They fit the footprint of the midwest, and they have consistently had a pretty good team.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Feb 19, 2014 18:44:08 GMT -5
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Feb 19, 2014 18:46:52 GMT -5
It's more than just FOIA issues. Sure, all schools must file something with the NCAA but all private universities are not required to disclose the nature of their contractual relationships, nor are private universities subject to state open meetings laws and the like One only need to follow the kerfuffle over the Maryland's move to the Big Ten to see what other issues may arise when you are dealing with a public institution. I have no particular knowledge regarding Virginia's state laws re: open meetings and its particular contracting rules. Suffice it to say, I would imagine that a public university would not be able to make decisions as quickly as any private institution. Certainly it's a concern, but it seems like something that should be pretty far down the list. We were fine with UConn being in the league for so long, right? Whether VCU is a "peer" institution? Do most posters on this board realize that it is the largest public 4-year university in Virginia? Why does this matter? None of the schools in the conference are academic peers with Georgetown. VCU is right in line with some of the other schools already in the conference. |
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Feb 19, 2014 18:49:26 GMT -5
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Feb 19, 2014 18:55:02 GMT -5
St. Louis offers crowds, like Creighton and Xavier. Not certain where else to go but VCU has lost some appeal. SLU is not on the same level as Creighton or Xavier in attendance. Here's the NCAA attendance report. You can just change the year in the URL to look at previous years. fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2013.pdfOf the main candidate schools, Dayton is the one that gets the big crowds like Creighton/Xavier. VCU has a long sellout streak, but a smaller (~7600) arena. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2014 19:42:29 GMT -5
Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:00 am | Updated: 11:27 am, Wed Feb 13, 2013. That was around the time they were hoping to get invited to the Big East... |
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Feb 19, 2014 20:03:45 GMT -5
My mistake - I thought that was from 2014 for some reason. In any case, there's no indication (publicly, at least) that they are planning to add football soon. Relevant discussion here: holylandofhoops.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3197&sid=cc6c33fd99cb10062a91baeb0b4fc2b4. FWIW, the guy that runs VCURamnation said, "I can assure you VCU wants in the Big East and has no plans on starting football." If they ARE planning to add football clearly that would be a problem and probably a deal breaker, so I'm sure the Big East is doing its own digging. |
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