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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 11, 2014 16:28:51 GMT -5
I'm not sure that academics was exactly "thrown out the window", but I am also not sure it was an overriding factor. The current Big East schools are certainly not all academically equivalent, but as private schools they may well want to position the conference as having schools that all have solid academic foundations. But yeah, in the end it is about basketball success, now and/or in the future.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Feb 11, 2014 18:50:00 GMT -5
Regarding Big East expansion. . .no "football" schools. Ever. Let's do this: add UConn and Cincinnati. . .after they bring their football programs down to Patriot League level. Otherwise, let's stop this blather about bringing in our former compatriots. Saint Louis University makes sense for many reasons. I'm ambivalent as to Dayton. VCU? No, for the reasons previously expressed above. UMass? State school. It would be great to reenter the Boston area. Any chance BU decides to take basketball seriously?
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 11, 2014 19:09:20 GMT -5
I think the main issue with our lack of attendance this year are 1: Attendance has been steadily decline with each and every early exit 2: The prices are too high 3: No marquee games this year. No good OOC game and best BE games are during the week: Nova, Crieghton, Marquette. Our weekend BE games were St. John's, Seton Hall, Butler, Xavier. I expect attendance to go up next year with the Kansas Home game plus our Sweet 16+ run in the NCAA tournament  I don't think the new BE is a deal breaker for attendance. If the schedule was reversed and we Had Nova, Creighton, Marquette, Providence on the weekend instead of the other way around I bet our attendance would have received a significant bump. |
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 11, 2014 19:52:05 GMT -5
To me VCU is the obvious add and there would not be an attendance issue when they came to the Verizon...I do not understand why they were not added i the first place. Right now they are a better program than Butler and even in the long run Creighton. VCU was not added, nor even seriously considered, because it does not remotely fit academically with the schools in the conference. I do not understand why people continue to be confused by this. Moreover, who wants a full Verizon which is half VCU fans? I suspect we will remain at 10 for a while, while we watch how the landscape continues to shake out. I mean, isn't that kind of what we are all pining for w/r/t games against Duke/Cuse/WVU/Pitt?  |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 11, 2014 19:58:25 GMT -5
VCU was not added, nor even seriously considered, because it does not remotely fit academically with the schools in the conference. I do not understand why people continue to be confused by this. Moreover, who wants a full Verizon which is half VCU fans? I suspect we will remain at 10 for a while, while we watch how the landscape continues to shake out. The whole academics thing is really just window dressing. The idea that VCU doesn't fit academically is ridiculous. I know many people close to St. John's, and the fact is they aren't even remotely the academic institution that Georgetown is. It's safe to say that both the old and Big East had a wide array of academic institutions - and I am totally fine with that. The idea that VCU isn't an academic fit or it wouldn't fit because it is a public institution is crazy to me. I don't care about FOIA requests or anything else, either. We should not have anything to hide anyway (not to mention we were in a conference with public universities for years, there's no reason we cannot do that now). VCU as an addition is so obvious as the next best addition (especially for us since we are in DC), that it really should happen if or when there is expansion. Adding anybody else in the east would make much less sense, and be less advantageous to Georgetown. |
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 11, 2014 20:33:39 GMT -5
Couldnt agree more. They shouldnt even sell the upper deck seats until the two lower bowls are sold out. Also, the pricing is just completely off. What deluded world is the ticket office living in that they think most people will pay 78 dollars for a floor level seat in the corner, especially coming off another off-season disappointment. The sad part is that with a more dynamic pricing strategy the athletic department could probably generate the same or even increased revenues while creating a better playing atmosphere, but that would actually require some hard work... The bolding above is mine, for emphasis. So here's the deal: the Athletic Department is using a "dynamic pricing strategy" (in fact, I think they use that exact term). They've been doing so since at least last season. The thought process makes sense: you charge more for the premium games where demand is high. Last season, the two highest priced single game tickets on the home schedule were Louisville and Syracuse. I reckon Pitt, Marquette, and St. John's (the Gray Out game) were probably in the next tier, and Rutgers/Seton Hall (both weeknights) near the bottom. TL;DR: The more popular single game tickets cost more. The problem this season is the whole "where demand is high" thing. You could get away with "premium" pricing for Syracuse and Louisville--popular teams and Saturday games. This season, too many things killed demand: the big draw Big East teams now play in the ACC and AAC, the two preseason projected best BE matchups (Nova and Marquette) ended up as 9pm Monday games, and yaknowfivegamelosingstreakandall. But we still pressed forward with the dynamic pricing. I believe the two "premium" games this season were Butler and Xavier...probably not because McD figured we were dying to see Kellen Dunham and Semaj Christon, but because those were the best of a poor weekend game slate (St. John's and Seton Hall being the other two). Believe me, I'm staring askance at a $48.28 Section 108 Xavier ticket. Related: IIRC there's another layer to dynamic pricing...as the supply of tickets shrinks, or it gets closer to the game date, the price changes. For me, it's a good overall strategy but the tactics didn't work out this season, and it remains to be seen how the new Big East home slate will grow on Hoya fans. Maybe adding the Kansas game next season will help. One thing worth noting: when it comes to season ticket prices, the opposite trend seems to be happening. Donation requirements for season tickets haven't changed in several years, and ticket prices either remained steady or in some cases (including mine) season ticket prices decreased this season by a not-insignificant amount. |
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Feb 11, 2014 21:13:00 GMT -5
What happens when the friday night game at the BET is given away for $40.00 on the street. I may be wrong but attendance looks to be pretty light going into the Garden in March. How far away is this league from a rotating tourney. VCU and SlU are not the answer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2014 21:20:18 GMT -5
Couldnt agree more. They shouldnt even sell the upper deck seats until the two lower bowls are sold out. Also, the pricing is just completely off. What deluded world is the ticket office living in that they think most people will pay 78 dollars for a floor level seat in the corner, especially coming off another off-season disappointment. The sad part is that with a more dynamic pricing strategy the athletic department could probably generate the same or even increased revenues while creating a better playing atmosphere, but that would actually require some hard work... The bolding above is mine, for emphasis. So here's the deal: the Athletic Department is using a "dynamic pricing strategy" (in fact, I think they use that exact term). They've been doing so since at least last season. The thought process makes sense: you charge more for the premium games where demand is high. Last season, the two highest priced single game tickets on the home schedule were Louisville and Syracuse. I reckon Pitt, Marquette, and St. John's (the Gray Out game) were probably in the next tier, and Rutgers/Seton Hall (both weeknights) near the bottom. TL;DR: The more popular single game tickets cost more. The problem this season is the whole "where demand is high" thing. You could get away with "premium" pricing for Syracuse and Louisville--popular teams and Saturday games. This season, too many things killed demand: the big draw Big East teams now play in the ACC and AAC, the two preseason projected best BE matchups (Nova and Marquette) ended up as 9pm Monday games, and yaknowfivegamelosingstreakandall. But we still pressed forward with the dynamic pricing. I believe the two "premium" games this season were Butler and Xavier...probably not because McD figured we were dying to see Kellen Dunham and Semaj Christon, but because those were the best of a poor weekend game slate (St. John's and Seton Hall being the other two). Believe me, I'm staring askance at a $48.28 Section 108 Xavier ticket. Related: IIRC there's another layer to dynamic pricing...as the supply of tickets shrinks, or it gets closer to the game date, the price changes. For me, it's a good overall strategy but the tactics didn't work out this season, and it remains to be seen how the new Big East home slate will grow on Hoya fans. Maybe adding the Kansas game next season will help. One thing worth noting: when it comes to season ticket prices, the opposite trend seems to be happening. Donation requirements for season tickets haven't changed in several years, and ticket prices either remained steady or in some cases (including mine) season ticket prices decreased this season by a not-insignificant amount. This is a good post, especially the points about how premium games go for more. You are right that this is in fact dynamic pricing in some sense. As somebody with an econ background I understand the need to use words carefully, although I'm not completely wrong. You actually made my point for me, which is the lack of accounting for the low demand. Dynamic isn't a word that can only mean one thing. (Just because Georgetown calls their system dynamic doesnt make it so. Although it is in some regards as you pointed out.) Where it's not is in the lower tiered games, and your point about tactics applies here. (You acknowledged the difference between strategy and tactics yourself and I bet we agree on the point I'll now make.) If we had a truly dynamic system it would account for the market inefficiencies we see at every game that is not Syracuse or Duke. I check ticketmaster before every game -- and often at the box office if I am buying right before tip -- and there are tons of available seats in the lower bowl for practically the same price as an upper bowl seat because, as you said, they discount as supply shrinks -- or in Gtown's case, fails to shrink. The sad part is that pretty much everybody in a middle level seat would prefer to be in the bowl but georgetown has failed to introduce a ticketing system that could sell those tickets before the middle level goes on sale. It would probably come out to the same revenue anyway. I think this comes from a fairly simplistic revenue maximization model that the ticketing office uses, a failure to appreciate the benefit of selling out the lower bowl from an atmospheric standpoint and a general discrepancy between what Georgetown thinks their product is worth and what the consumer thinks it is worth. A more advanced form of "discriminatory pricing" would be ideal. This would result in season ticket holders who want their good seats guaranteed and pay more to have them for every game pay a little more and then people who want to go for fewer games or buy individually can still get unsold lower level seats at affordable prices. [ |
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 11, 2014 22:19:09 GMT -5
Regarding FOIA. If I recall, Esh was fired shortly after the Wash Times did a story on finances of local college bball programs. They got their info from documents ALL SCHOOLS have to file with NCAA. Not sure if these were public documents or were leaked to Wash Times but I believe they are public. Possibly intended to ensure equal funding for men and women sports.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 11, 2014 22:59:40 GMT -5
What happens when the friday night game at the BET is given away for $40.00 on the street. I may be wrong but attendance looks to be pretty light going into the Garden in March. How far away is this league from a rotating tourney. VCU and SlU are not the answer. 'Sup Mopey McGee? How 'bout we wait until the tournament, you know, actually happens before we declare it a disaster? |
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Feb 12, 2014 0:08:46 GMT -5
Here is my question...
Will this be the weakest year for a group of teams that the Big East has gone into MSG and the Big East Tourney??
If, yes then there will be attendance issues...
If "No".
Then what was a weaker year for a group of Big East teams going into the MSG and the Big East Tourney??
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 12, 2014 0:22:44 GMT -5
Here is my question... Will this be the weakest year for a group of teams that the Big East has gone into MSG and the Big East Tourney?? If, yes then there will be attendance issues... If "No". Then what was a weaker year for a group of Big East teams going into the MSG and the Big East Tourney?? Are you drunk? |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 12, 2014 8:03:13 GMT -5
Regarding FOIA. If I recall, Esh was fired shortly after the Wash Times did a story on finances of local college bball programs. They got their info from documents ALL SCHOOLS have to file with NCAA. Not sure if these were public documents or were leaked to Wash Times but I believe they are public. Possibly intended to ensure equal funding for men and women sports. It's more than just FOIA issues. Sure, all schools must file something with the NCAA but all private universities are not required to disclose the nature of their contractual relationships, nor are private universities subject to state open meetings laws and the like One only need to follow the kerfuffle over the Maryland's move to the Big Ten to see what other issues may arise when you are dealing with a public institution. I have no particular knowledge regarding Virginia's state laws re: open meetings and its particular contracting rules. Suffice it to say, I would imagine that a public university would not be able to make decisions as quickly as any private institution. www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/legality-of-u-md-regents-big-ten-vote-questioned/2012/11/20/73f6fe8a-3345-11e2-bb9b-288a310849ee_story.htmlWhether VCU is a "peer" institution? Do most posters on this board realize that it is the largest public 4-year university in Virginia? |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 12, 2014 8:32:07 GMT -5
Here is my question... Will this be the weakest year for a group of teams that the Big East has gone into MSG and the Big East Tourney?? If, yes then there will be attendance issues... If "No". Then what was a weaker year for a group of Big East teams going into the MSG and the Big East Tourney?? The 2000 tournament had no top 10 teams and just two in the top 20 (#12 Syr, #19 St. John's). The 1994 tournament also had just two Top 20 schools and it was the last tournament before the UConn fan base began to travel to MSG en masse. Sunday afternoon's Georgetown-Providence final might have had 12,000. |
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Feb 12, 2014 9:07:45 GMT -5
Here is my question... Will this be the weakest year for a group of teams that the Big East has gone into MSG and the Big East Tourney?? If, yes then there will be attendance issues... If "No". Then what was a weaker year for a group of Big East teams going into the MSG and the Big East Tourney?? Are you drunk? I think academics got thrown out the window a long time ago. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 10:59:16 GMT -5
VCU is pretty much dead for now… Too many people around the University want football and some politicos are pushing hard for it as well…
Butlers struggling this year but gets Roosevelt Jones back next year (Their leading returning scorer last year) and returns all but 2…Should be a top 20 team or close to that...
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Feb 12, 2014 22:08:07 GMT -5
No ESPN, is a problem.
Fox Sports 1 is cool and all, but not being on "The Network" hurts a big deal. FS1 is in its infant stages too.
That is the best way to draw interests from fans, especially the casual ones, and recruits...ESPN coverage.
As diehard Hoya fans, we will watch the games. But the general public? Gaining new ones? That will be a challenge going forward.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 23:15:33 GMT -5
No ESPN, is a problem. Fox Sports 1 is cool and all, but not being on "The Network" hurts a big deal. FS1 is in its infant stages too. That is the best way to draw interests from fans, especially the casual ones, and recruits...ESPN coverage. As diehard Hoya fans, we will watch the games. But the general public? Gaining new ones? That will be a challenge going forward. This is sadly true. Only a few things we can do to begin to combat this: 1. Keep playing interesting pre-season tournaments and special games that will be televised on ESPN 2. Hope FS1 keeps gaining in stature and the channel eventually gets to the point where it's not longer channel 2789 and is next to ESPN in the lineup the way the NBC sports channel is on my cable provider. Hope FS1 can slowly build market share to challenge the worldwide leader. 3. Win games on CBS in March. |
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hoyaloya
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Post by hoyaloya on Feb 18, 2014 5:18:47 GMT -5
Hoyainspirit
I am late getting back to your comment:"Probably have to split the six other division games 3 home, 3 away. Otherwise, too many road or home games in one season."
I think that imbalance can be handled. What is important is that each team in the division has an equal schedule. That will not be the case if the inter-division games are split as you suggest . For example, if GU has to play Creighton at Creighton while VCU gets Creighton at VCU, VCU has a schedule advantage over a division rival.
With the 2 six team divisions, the conference schedule becomes 16 not 18 games. That allows every team 14 games to address any home/away imbalance. If GU were to schedule Gonzaga and Syracuse for a home and home one game a year, it probably would not be difficult to have the Hoyas at home for those games in the year that the Hoyas must play away inter- division.
I continue to believe VCU would be a good addition. I read somewhere that VCU has had 48 consecutive home sellouts.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 18, 2014 8:36:37 GMT -5
Hoyainspirit I am late getting back to your comment:"Probably have to split the six other division games 3 home, 3 away. Otherwise, too many road or home games in one season." I think that imbalance can be handled. What is important is that each team in the division has an equal schedule. That will not be the case if the inter-division games are split as you suggest . For example, if GU has to play Creighton at Creighton while VCU gets Creighton at VCU, VCU has a schedule advantage over a division rival. With the 2 six team divisions, the conference schedule becomes 16 not 18 games. That allows every team 14 games to address any home/away imbalance. If GU were to schedule Gonzaga and Syracuse for a home and home one game a year, it probably would not be difficult to have the Hoyas at home for those games in the year that the Hoyas must play away inter- division. I continue to believe VCU would be a good addition. I read somewhere that VCU has had 48 consecutive home sellouts. Hi loya. My thought was that, under the scenario you suggest, if I understand it correctly, out of the 16 conference games, the home-away split would be 11-5 for one division, 5-11 for the other. Just can't see such an imbalance for home-away in the conference. Teams in "home" year would have a huge advantage, not equalized until the following season. That disadvantage would seem to outweigh the advantage of a equal schedule. Am I missing something? |
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