B. Hayes

[prhoya]

Dec 8, 2015 11:14:24 GMT -5 tashoya said:

Dec 8, 2015 9:54:47 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Yet they beat us.

Reggie averaged 4.6 minutes and not in garbage minutes. He was given an opportunity to shoot his way to more playing time with the starters.

No he didn't. He averaged 4.6 in the games in which he played. He had 10 DNP coach's decision last year. 105 minutes over 33 games is around 3.1 minutes.

That's how mpg are counted/averaged, not like you say.

[prhoya]

Dec 8, 2015 10:37:44 GMT -5 rockhoya said:

Dec 8, 2015 9:30:28 GMT -5 prhoya said:

It is really obvious that no one said he was a juggernaut. He was denied an opportunity to show what he could do with the other starters.

It's called practice, and earning it. College basketball isn't a game of handouts.

He earned the minutes just in time for the FSU and then sucked all year and then earned it again just in time for March '15? Lol!

[tashoya]

Dec 8, 2015 11:29:21 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Dec 8, 2015 11:14:24 GMT -5 tashoya said:

No he didn't. He averaged 4.6 in the games in which he played. He had 10 DNP coach's decision last year. 105 minutes over 33 games is around 3.1 minutes.

That's how mpg are counted/averaged, not like you say.

Which, of course, is disingenuous. Calculated that way, Bradley got 4.1 "per game" and you initially wanted 5 a game for him, no? Is all of this really over 1 minute "per game" via that bogus calculation? If so, that seems silly. I thought it was over him actually getting much less than that flawed stat. By that same flawed measure, Reggie got 4.6 and you had said that you wanted Bradley to get similar minutes to Reggie. By that stat, he already was.

[HometownHoya]

Dec 8, 2015 11:49:54 GMT -5 tashoya said:

Dec 8, 2015 11:29:21 GMT -5 prhoya said:

That's how mpg are counted/averaged, not like you say.

Which, of course, is disingenuous. Calculated that way, Bradley got 4.1 "per game" and you initially wanted 5 a game for him, no? Is all of this really over 1 minute "per game" via that bogus calculation? If so, that seems silly. I thought it was over him actually getting much less than that flawed stat. By that same flawed measure, Reggie got 4.6 and you had said that you wanted Bradley to get similar minutes to Reggie. By that stat, he already was.

Wait, 1 mpg...I thought this ^asinine argument was about 1 rebound per game.

[prhoya]

Dec 8, 2015 10:42:36 GMT -5 rockhoya said:

Everyone is forgetting that once BJ isn't able to establish deep post position before the catch there really isn't much else he can do other than be a big body and try to clean up the glass. Yes he's playing well, but let's not act like he's NBA material. He probably learned his hook shot from Hop and Josh after all (I'm being completely serious, where else would he have learned to be a real big man other than train with his teammates).

It's the joke of the year if you say he learned it from Hops!!!!!

As to the deep post position, pls look at the video of the Syracuse game attached above. You'll see long, NBA hooks!

[prhoya]

Dec 8, 2015 11:49:54 GMT -5 tashoya said:

Dec 8, 2015 11:29:21 GMT -5 prhoya said:

That's how mpg are counted/averaged, not like you say.

Which, of course, is disingenuous. Calculated that way, Bradley got 4.1 "per game" and you initially wanted 5 a game for him, no? Is all of this really over 1 minute "per game" via that bogus calculation? If so, that seems silly. I thought it was over him actually getting much less than that flawed stat. By that same flawed measure, Reggie got 4.6 and you had said that you wanted Bradley to get similar minutes to Reggie. By that stat, he already was.

If you've read the rest of the thread, I mentioned garbage minutes vs minutes with the starters. Remove those from Bradley's mpg and see what you get.

As to the "disingenuous", take it up with the stat geniuses. Until they change it, that's how it's calculated.

[rockhoya]

Dec 8, 2015 11:59:05 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Dec 8, 2015 10:42:36 GMT -5 rockhoya said:

Everyone is forgetting that once BJ isn't able to establish deep post position before the catch there really isn't much else he can do other than be a big body and try to clean up the glass. Yes he's playing well, but let's not act like he's NBA material. He probably learned his hook shot from Hop and Josh after all (I'm being completely serious, where else would he have learned to be a real big man other than train with his teammates).

It's the joke of the year if you say he learned it from Hops!!!!!

As to the deep post position, pls look at the video of the Syracuse game attached above. You'll see long, NBA hooks!

Yeah how could I be so silly, he's clearly Hakeem reincarnated.

He's clearly had his hook shot since he was a 6'3 SG in high school and all those years he got to develop injury free after that! He came out of the womb with an offensive repertoire obviously, there's no way his first experience playing against actual big men did him any good.

[prhoya]

Dec 8, 2015 12:16:11 GMT -5 rockhoya said:

Dec 8, 2015 11:59:05 GMT -5 prhoya said:

It's the joke of the year if you say he learned it from Hops!!!!!

As to the deep post position, pls look at the video of the Syracuse game attached above. You'll see long, NBA hooks!

Yeah how could I be so silly, he's clearly Hakeem reincarnated.

He's clearly had his hook shot since he was a 6'3 SG in high school and all those years he got to develop injury free after that! He came out of the womb with an offensive repertoire obviously, there's no way his first experience playing against actual big men did him any good.

Enjoy the ride, rock!!

What is your man Hops doing these days? Really asking btw, haven't read anything about him

[Cambridge]

This thread is why we can't have nice things.

[tashoya]

I give.

[professorhoya]

Dec 8, 2015 11:38:27 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Dec 8, 2015 10:37:44 GMT -5 rockhoya said:

It's called practice, and earning it. College basketball isn't a game of handouts.

He earned the minutes just in time for the FSU and then sucked all year and then earned it again just in time for March '15? Lol!

I think the main reason he played in the FSU game was because FSU had the triple 7 foot towers in 7-3 Bojanovsky, 7-1 290 lbs Ojo and 7-0 Turpin. Hopkins-Lubick-Moses were simply too small to not get help from a 7 footer in preparing for that matchup.

[prhoya]

Dec 8, 2015 12:44:49 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Dec 8, 2015 11:38:27 GMT -5 prhoya said:

He earned the minutes just in time for the FSU and then sucked all year and then earned it again just in time for March '15? Lol!

I think the main reason he played in the FSU game was because FSU had the triple 7 foot towers in 7-3 Bojanovsky, 7-1 290 lbs Ojo and 7-0 Turpin. Hopkins-Lubick-Moses were simply too small to not get help from a 7 footer in preparing for that matchup.

BF: "Necessity is the mother of invention."

Btw, might be the tallest team I've seen in person and I was there for DM and Zo.

[bmartin]

He was the third team center, and third teamers do not play unless there is foul trouble or garbage time. This is the same issue that limited Vee Sanford, Aaron Bowen, and several others who showed they were good enough to play more but were behind other guys at their positions.

The question of playing time is whether Hayes should have been the second team center and the answer is no. Smith was the better offensive player. Hopkins was by far the better defensive player.

[professorhoya]

Dec 8, 2015 13:03:13 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Dec 8, 2015 12:44:49 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

I think the main reason he played in the FSU game was because FSU had the triple 7 foot towers in 7-3 Bojanovsky, 7-1 290 lbs Ojo and 7-0 Turpin. Hopkins-Lubick-Moses were simply too small to not get help from a 7 footer in preparing for that matchup.

BF: "Necessity is the mother of invention."

Btw, might be the tallest team I've seen in person and I was there for DM and Zo.

UC Irvine is pretty tall this year.
7-6 300 Ndiaye
7-2 260 Dimakopulous
6-10 260 Ryan
6-10 Galloway
6-10 Best
6-8 244 Shawn Ray

[Deleted]

[rockhoya]

Dec 8, 2015 12:24:28 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Dec 8, 2015 12:16:11 GMT -5 rockhoya said:

Yeah how could I be so silly, he's clearly Hakeem reincarnated.

He's clearly had his hook shot since he was a 6'3 SG in high school and all those years he got to develop injury free after that! He came out of the womb with an offensive repertoire obviously, there's no way his first experience playing against actual big men did him any good.

Enjoy the ride, rock!!

What is your man Hops doing these days? Really asking btw, haven't read anything about him

Hops is not "my man" so I don't know why you're asking me....

[hoyasaxa2003]

Hopkins is playing on Istanbul DSI in the Turkish league. His team is 17 of 18 in the league's standings after 11 games. He's averaging 15.4 points per game, and 9.1 rebounds per game.

[Ranch Dressing]

Attachment Deleted

[hoyasaxa2003]

Dec 8, 2015 11:04:36 GMT -5 guru said:

Josh Smith was one of the great mistakes of the JT3 era. To anyone who looks closely at that situation, it's an ignoble mark on the program. Hindsight is always 20/20, but developing Bradley would have been a more palatable option than signing an overweight, unmotivated, petulant Smith who never seemed to appreciate the second chance he was given and who bolted school as soon as his last game was over.

The Josh Smith experiment was not perfect, but I am not sure I would call it one of the "great mistakes" of the JT3 era. When JT3 brought Smith into the fold in 2013, it was in the context of a front court that wasn't very good. When he signed him in 2013, the frontcourt consisted of a very weak Hopkins on offensive, a very green Bradley Hayes, and a very raw Moses who really had shown little. Plus, by then, it was clear Tyler Adams would never play. And, we didn't have any big man recruits for 2014.

In that context, there was basically absolutely no downside to taking Smith. In that sense, I don't think it could possibly be one of the "great mistakes" of the JT3 era. Smith did not make the team worse. In fact, Smith was quite good offensively in both the 2014 and 2015 seasons. Yes, his academic ineligibility in 2014 was a bad thing, and yes, his attitude / early departure in 2015 was not a good thing, but on the court, I don't think it was a mistake.

Off the court, you can make all the arguments you want, but if you're simply trying to determine whether Smith was a mistake in relation to Hayes, I don't think there really is much to debate. Smith was clearly the better offensive player. If Smith had come to Georgetown and tanked, you'd have a different argument. But, he did not.

Also, the fact that Hayes really didn't get any more time once Smith was ineligible really speaks volumes of what the coaching staff thought of Hayes in his sophomore year. There's no reason to think that if Hayes could have helped then, the coaches would have kept him off the court anyway. That's just not logical.

[professorhoya]

Dec 8, 2015 13:31:55 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Dec 8, 2015 11:04:36 GMT -5 guru said:

Josh Smith was one of the great mistakes of the JT3 era. To anyone who looks closely at that situation, it's an ignoble mark on the program. Hindsight is always 20/20, but developing Bradley would have been a more palatable option than signing an overweight, unmotivated, petulant Smith who never seemed to appreciate the second chance he was given and who bolted school as soon as his last game was over.

The Josh Smith experiment was not perfect, but I am not sure I would call it one of the "great mistakes" of the JT3 era. When JT3 brought Smith into the fold in 2013, it was in the context of a front court that wasn't very good. When he signed him in 2013, the frontcourt consisted of a very weak Hopkins on offensive, a very green Bradley Hayes, and a very raw Moses who really had shown little. Plus, by then, it was clear Tyler Adams would never play. And, we didn't have any big man recruits for 2014.

In that context, there was basically absolutely no downside to taking Smith. In that sense, I don't think it could possibly be one of the "great mistakes" of the JT3 era. Smith did not make the team worse. In fact, Smith was quite good offensively in both the 2014 and 2015 seasons. Yes, his academic ineligibility in 2014 was a bad thing, and yes, his attitude / early departure in 2015 was not a good thing, but on the court, I don't think it was a mistake.

Off the court, you can make all the arguments you want, but if you're simply trying to determine whether Smith was a mistake in relation to Hayes, I don't think there really is much to debate. Smith was clearly the better offensive player. If Smith had come to Georgetown and tanked, you'd have a different argument. But, he did not.

Also, the fact that Hayes really didn't get any more time once Smith was ineligible really speaks volumes of what the coaching staff thought of Hayes in his sophomore year. There's no reason to think that if Hayes could have helped then, the coaches would have kept him off the court anyway. That's just not logical.

Not sure how it can be considered a failure. Could it have been more successful? Possibly. But the Joshua Smith team (Along with the Sims/Hollis/Porter team 3 NBA players) went further than any team since the final four team in the NCAA tournament. The team and offense in particular ran well when you had DSR and Smith in. It basically collapsed if either guy came out for a breather or because of foul trouble.