MacPherson transfer

[dundermifflinhoya]

www.nunesmagician.com/2013/12/12/5203728/cameron-macpherson-transfer-from-georgetown-syracuse

[DFW HOYA]

Of the five QB's that played just one season ago (Kempf, Aiken, Skon, Nolan, MacPherson), only Nolan remains for 2014.

[Problem of Dog]

Dec 14, 2013 16:07:40 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Of the five QB's that played just one season ago (Kempf, Aiken, Skon, Nolan, MacPherson), only Nolan remains for 2014.

Did Skon just quit? How many QBs can one program go through? We've got to be approaching a record. Over a decade we've probably had more kids listed there, at least, than any D1 school in the country.

[FrazierFanatic]

Why would any decent QB stay with a program that has no chance of winning?

[DFW HOYA]

Dec 14, 2013 20:30:04 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

Why would any decent QB stay with a program that has no chance of winning?

Of course Georgetown has a chance of winning. It just takes some effort.

Look around--Stanford is in a BCS bowl for the third straight years despite SAT's that are 200 points higher than anyone else in the Pac-12. Vanderbilt posted consecutive winning seasons for the first time in 39 seasons and is going to a third consecutive bowl for the first time ever. Duke went to the ACC championship game this season despite having been a three-win team in 2011 and going a combined 13-90 under Carl Franks and Ted Roof as late as 2007. Rice (yes, Rice) won a conference title this season for the first time since 1957.

What's the secret to the success of these schools? No secret, really. They have an academic and an athletic institutional commitment, a means to compete, and can land (and admit) players who buy into what the head coach is saying. That having been said...

• Georgetown does not need a 25,000 seat stadium to display institutional commitment. It needs something, however.
• Georgetown does not need to offer 60 scholarships to compete. It needs something, however.
• Georgetown does not need to drop to the NCAA minimum to admit athletes. It needs something more than what the Patriot League is providing them, however, and needs to be able to stand up and give notice if the league is no longer a safe harbor for the program.
• And when it comes to message, either the players are buying it or they are not, and if they are not, they are thus wasting their time.

Fans can argue the record of the messenger, but first you've got to have the message. Georgetown won't win or lose a single game in 2014 because Cam MacPherson is sitting on a sideline at the Carrier Dome instead of the MSF. But it's about those kids that could start at Georgetown tomorrow but who will instead sit on the third string string at Rice or Duke or Vanderbilt or Stanford because they can, and because Georgetown can't reach them by either message, messenger, or rule.

[FrazierFanatic]

Yeah I meant no chance of winning given the current lack of commitment by the Administration.

[puppydog100]

DFW HOYA, is that our philosophy, or just our excuse to do nothing.

Stanford, Duke, Rice and Vanderbilt have all made substantial financial commitments to their respective programs, and its paying off.

We are not seeking a 25,000 seat facility, 7,500 seats will just be fine.

If we cannot offer scholarships, we cannot compete in the PL.

No one is asking to reduce GU's academic standards.

Players who go to other institutions and end up on the bench, went there believing they could play and compete and that level, some of them are on scholarship.
There are 100 players on a team, only 52 can dress on any given Saturday.  At that level, they knew what they were getting into, GU was never on their radar screen, and never will be.

All of the other PL schools have made the commitment, Fordham just got to the third round of the 1AA championship.

WE ARE GEORGETOWN, WE CAN DO BETTER THAN THIS.

[RusskyHoya]

Dec 14, 2013 21:17:17 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Look around--Stanford is in a BCS bowl for the third straight years despite SAT's that are 200 points higher than anyone else in the Pac-12. Vanderbilt posted consecutive winning seasons for the first time in 39 seasons and is going to a third consecutive bowl for the first time ever. Duke went to the ACC championship game this season despite having been a three-win team in 2011 and going a combined 13-90 under Carl Franks and Ted Roof as late as 2007. Rice (yes, Rice) won a conference title this season for the first time since 1957.

What's the secret to the success of these schools? No secret, really. They have an academic and an athletic institutional commitment, a means to compete, and can land (and admit) players who buy into what the head coach is saying. That having been said...

Georgetown does not need to drop to the NCAA minimum to admit athletes. It needs something more than what the Patriot League is providing them, however, and needs to be able to stand up and give notice if the league is no longer a safe harbor for the program....

But it's about those kids that could start at Georgetown tomorrow but who will instead sit on the third string string at Rice or Duke or Vanderbilt or Stanford because they can, and because Georgetown can't reach them by either message, messenger, or rule.

You're going to have to clarify what you mean here. You say that Stanford is in the BCS despite their team's SATs being 200 points higher than anyone in the BCS, then turn around and say that Georgetown "needs something more than what the Patriot League is providing them" in terms of academic flexibility.

Are you saying that Stanford, Vanderbilt, Duke, and Rice players could not be admitted under the Patriot League Academic Index? Because the players at those academically elite I-A schools would end up mostly falling in the lower or lowest bands? If that is your claim, do you have specific evidence of that?

From where I'm sitting, the answer to the question of why someone would rather sit on third string their whole career at any of those schools - as opposed to starting at Georgetown - is pretty simple: at Stanford, or Duke, or Vandy, or Rice, or Northwestern (and, for the most part, at the Ivies as well), they can do so for free. When you know you're not going to be playing past college, it becomes much harder to justify shelling out thousands a year for PT when you could get a high-value, name-brand education for free in exchange for 4 years on scout team.

[Problem of Dog]

Oh boy, this thread is just going to be a copy of every other thread for the last two weeks/years.

[indianhoop]

Dec 15, 2013 18:31:41 GMT -5 RusskyHoya said:

Dec 14, 2013 21:17:17 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Look around--Stanford is in a BCS bowl for the third straight years despite SAT's that are 200 points higher than anyone else in the Pac-12. Vanderbilt posted consecutive winning seasons for the first time in 39 seasons and is going to a third consecutive bowl for the first time ever. Duke went to the ACC championship game this season despite having been a three-win team in 2011 and going a combined 13-90 under Carl Franks and Ted Roof as late as 2007. Rice (yes, Rice) won a conference title this season for the first time since 1957.

What's the secret to the success of these schools? No secret, really. They have an academic and an athletic institutional commitment, a means to compete, and can land (and admit) players who buy into what the head coach is saying. That having been said...

Georgetown does not need to drop to the NCAA minimum to admit athletes. It needs something more than what the Patriot League is providing them, however, and needs to be able to stand up and give notice if the league is no longer a safe harbor for the program....

But it's about those kids that could start at Georgetown tomorrow but who will instead sit on the third string string at Rice or Duke or Vanderbilt or Stanford because they can, and because Georgetown can't reach them by either message, messenger, or rule.

You're going to have to clarify what you mean here. You say that Stanford is in the BCS despite their team's SATs being 200 points higher than anyone in the BCS, then turn around and say that Georgetown "needs something more than what the Patriot League is providing them" in terms of academic flexibility.

Are you saying that Stanford, Vanderbilt, Duke, and Rice players could not be admitted under the Patriot League Academic Index? Because the players at those academically elite I-A schools would end up mostly falling in the lower or lowest bands? If that is your claim, do you have specific evidence of that?

From where I'm sitting, the answer to the question of why someone would rather sit on third string their whole career at any of those schools - as opposed to starting at Georgetown - is pretty simple: at Stanford, or Duke, or Vandy, or Rice, or Northwestern (and, for the most part, at the Ivies as well), they can do so for free. When you know you're not going to be playing past college, it becomes much harder to justify shelling out thousands a year for PT when you could get a high-value, name-brand education for free in exchange for 4 years on scout team.

I don't want to speak for DFW but I think that is what he is implying.

The whole topic of the AI gives me an instant headache but (from what I can glean anyway) it's especially draconian for Georgetown.

Anecdotally, through having coached myself and/or known kids who have gone to BC on a football scholarship through friends/family I know, there have been more than a few kids who have matriculated at BC that wouldn't have been admitted at HC due its AI.

Take that "BC bashing" from a Holy Cross alumnus any way you want to....but I think in general it's much easier to recruit (from an academic standpoint) at most of the elite FBS institutions than it is for Georgetown.

[RusskyHoya]

Dec 16, 2013 22:27:59 GMT -5 indianhoop said:

I don't want to speak for DFW but I think that is what he is implying.

The whole topic of the AI gives me an instant headache but (from what I can glean anyway) it's especially draconian for Georgetown.

Anecdotally, through having coached myself and/or known kids who have gone to BC on a football scholarship through friends/family I know, there have been more than a few kids who have matriculated at BC that wouldn't have been admitted at HC due its AI.

Take that "BC bashing" from a Holy Cross alumnus any way you want to....but I think in general it's much easier to recruit (from an academic standpoint) at most of the elite FBS institutions than it is for Georgetown.

My friend, bashing of Benedict Arnold College is not merely tolerated here, it is encouraged. To that effect, I will simply point out that I listed academically 'elite' FBS institutions. Boston College is not on that list, no matter what Cambridge pretensions have wafted across the Charles and settled upon Chestnut Hill.

[Problem of Dog]

Dec 16, 2013 22:51:57 GMT -5 RusskyHoya said:

Dec 16, 2013 22:27:59 GMT -5 indianhoop said:

I don't want to speak for DFW but I think that is what he is implying.

The whole topic of the AI gives me an instant headache but (from what I can glean anyway) it's especially draconian for Georgetown.

Anecdotally, through having coached myself and/or known kids who have gone to BC on a football scholarship through friends/family I know, there have been more than a few kids who have matriculated at BC that wouldn't have been admitted at HC due its AI.

Take that "BC bashing" from a Holy Cross alumnus any way you want to....but I think in general it's much easier to recruit (from an academic standpoint) at most of the elite FBS institutions than it is for Georgetown.

My friend, bashing of Benedict Arnold College is not merely tolerated here, it is encouraged. To that effect, I will simply point out that I listed academically 'elite' FBS institutions. Boston College is not on that list, no matter what Cambridge pretensions have wafted across the Charles and settled upon Chestnut Hill.

Honestly, the only FBS school that really has any sort of academic limitations is Stanford. And it's not to an Ivy/Patriot AI level either.

[RusskyHoya]

Dec 17, 2013 0:24:56 GMT -5 Problem of Dog said:

Dec 16, 2013 22:51:57 GMT -5 RusskyHoya said:

My friend, bashing of Benedict Arnold College is not merely tolerated here, it is encouraged. To that effect, I will simply point out that I listed academically 'elite' FBS institutions. Boston College is not on that list, no matter what Cambridge pretensions have wafted across the Charles and settled upon Chestnut Hill.

Honestly, the only FBS school that really has any sort of academic limitations is Stanford. And it's not to an Ivy/Patriot AI level either.

Well, that's the question, isn't it - do we have any concrete evidence one way or another? My sense is that Vandy and Notre Dame have very lax standards for football; Duke, Rice, and Northwestern are 'somewhat' higher, and Stanford is the exception that proves the rule. But I don't know that I have any hard facts to back that up.

Regardless, Georgetown's not trying to compete with Rice and Duke - it is trying, and failing, to compete with Patriots and Ivies that are bound by the AI. We may have a disadvantage against the other Patriots in this regard, but that's not an argument we can make when comparing to the Ivies. The difference there comes down to money.

So, as I've said before, the problem is that we're trying to pursue an Ivy model without Ivy resources, and we get demonstrably inferior results in return. The administration seems content enough with that state of affairs, since the Ivy model is not about winning so much as it is about maintaining the tradition of a program in a way that accords with the overall university brand.

My personal sense is that, even without an externally imposed Academic Index, the statistics of each year's incoming football class could not change materially from what they look like now. That's an administration-driven directive, not an athletic one. We would, in other words, be attempting to implement a Stanford model on the FCS level. Somehow, I don't think our resource base will make that approach any more successful than the quasi-Ivy model.