|
Post by indianhoop on Nov 5, 2013 17:01:17 GMT -5
There's really no way around staying in the PL without improving your inducements for recruits to come to GTown...be it more aid, some schollies etc. The whole thing immediately gives me a headache: AI, bands, equivalencies etc but it's a necessary evil. I'm not saying GU "has to" do this but if not, the football program is looking at a lot of "0-for" league seasons moving forward.
|
|
|
Post by puppydog100 on Nov 5, 2013 18:16:14 GMT -5
Here's an idea.
No scholarships. Drop out of Patriot League, become an independent. Schedule eight games per season with Ivy's, plus Wagner, Davidson, Howard or Marist.
Ivy's always draw well in DC, lots of alums here. GU could play lots of Homecoming Games at Ivy's, we would become the Washington Generals of the Ivy League.
We do not downgrade program, in fact, would be playing higher profile schools without busting the budget. Let's be honest, there are no Patriot League championships in our immediate future.
|
|
|
Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 5, 2013 21:28:45 GMT -5
Here's an idea. No scholarships. Drop out of Patriot League, become an independent. Schedule eight games per season with Ivy's, plus Wagner, Davidson, Howard or Marist. Ivy's always draw well in DC, lots of alums here. GU could play lots of Homecoming Games at Ivy's, we would become the Washington Generals of the Ivy League. We do not downgrade program, in fact, would be playing higher profile schools without busting the budget. Let's be honest, there are no Patriot League championships in our immediate future. First off, indianhoop: We've already done the 0fer the Patriot League thing a number of times before, and will continue to do it with or without scholarship with our current coaching situation. And @puppydog, you must be new around here because this has been discussed ad nauseum. DFW has even written extensive blog posts about it.
|
|
|
Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 5, 2013 21:32:59 GMT -5
Wow, Problem With Dog, over 500 negative, sarcastic posts. Coach Kelly is not the underlying problem. Georgetown cannot overcome its problems just because We Are Georgetown. GU can no longer just sell itself. We need leadership, direction and a commitment from the administration and the alumni. Once we have that, then we can figure out who best to be our head coach. Coach Kelly's comments concerning not being able to recruit on a level playing field illustrates his frustration with the program, and a clean break from the administration's silence concerning the future direction of the program. I would not be surprised if Coach left for greener pastures, even if his new position was not Head Coach. There are two different issues here. I'm not suggesting Kelly is the root of all of our problems. I'm saying that even given the current situation (and particularly the situation for most of his tenure, when scholarships weren't involved) almost anyone could do a better job than he has done. He's a terrible head coach, no doubt about it, but the administration's indifference towards football keeps him in his job, as is the case with Pete Wilk in baseball. With scholarships, Kelly now has CYA excuse to justify him being an awful head coach from here on out. Up until now I would say that even with the funding and facility issues that consistently plague the program, combined with the PL index, the school itself is such a big draw relative to the other schools in the league that we have not been at a major talent disadvantage. That will end soon, but you do have to recognize that we can't retroactively use this "scholarships" excuse.
|
|
|
Post by indianhoop on Nov 5, 2013 23:35:09 GMT -5
I hear ya' PoD but there's "losing" and then there's "really losing." The Hoya teams of 2000-2012 lost a lot of PL games in the fashion of the former, starting in 2013 they've started to lose moreso in the latter.
According to DFW, much of the GTown 2-deep is graduating whilst all the other PL schools are adding another scholarship class to their rosters. It's only going to get uglier imo.
Again, having gone through this at Holy Cross (i.e. the gutting of the football program), it's an issue near and dear to me. In the final analysis, I'd just like to see a competitive (maybe not too competitive lol) GTown football program in the PL.
|
|
|
Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 6, 2013 1:14:37 GMT -5
I hear ya' PoD but there's "losing" and then there's "really losing." The Hoya teams of 2000-2012 lost a lot of PL games in the fashion of the former, starting in 2013 they've started to lose moreso in the latter. According to DFW, much of the GTown 2-deep is graduating whilst all the other PL schools are adding another scholarship class to their rosters. It's only going to get uglier imo. Again, having gone through this at Holy Cross (i.e. the gutting of the football program), it's an issue near and dear to me. In the final analysis, I'd just like to see a competitive (maybe not too competitive lol) GTown football program in the PL. But I don't really think that the losing in 2013 has almost anything to do with scholarships. You won't see that effect until those classes start to fill out starting lineups on both sides of the ball. That's why I pin it on Kelly this year. I mean, the guy stuck with a miserable OC for a number of years, lucked out when that OC left for another job and the next OC's school folded their football program and he landed in Kelly's lap, then replaced him with a guy who had been a miserable failure at Columbia and was part of a staff that had recently been fired.
|
|
|
Post by hoyafbdad13 on Nov 6, 2013 16:30:57 GMT -5
I just saw the graduating seniors on hoyasaxa.com and found it interesting that 10 (1/3) of the class did not return their senior year. I'd be interested to know over the last 5 years how many kids committed in each class and how many graduated while still on the football team. My guess is there are many in each class that decide the GTOWN football experience is not what they expected it to be and left the program.
|
|
|
Post by puppydog100 on Nov 6, 2013 17:33:06 GMT -5
POD, no one is making the argument that Coach Kelly is a great head coach.
However, Kelly has had his hands tied from day one, and that is going to be the case no matter who the head coach may be.
There is no commitment from the administration, little support from the alums, and not a great deal of student support. Who are we playing for?
Several years back, Fordham made a commitment, now they are a top 10 program. Due to their success on the field, funding raising has improved, game attendance has increased, and even the New York media is giving them some attention.
All of the other PL school have found a way to make the commitment to upgrade their programs. GU's budget excuses are, in part, a self inflicted wound.
Time for GU administration and AD to make a statement about the future of the program.
With respect to Coach Kelly, you will probably get your wish. Once an employee publicity displays his discontent with management, your tenure is suspect.
|
|
thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,866
|
Post by thebin on Nov 8, 2013 11:45:07 GMT -5
Is it just me or does the proposed Memorial stadium DFW put on the front page look way too long? It looks like it could accomodate 2 fields end over end.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,861
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 8, 2013 11:58:20 GMT -5
Is it just me or does the proposed Memorial stadium DFW put on the front page look way too long? It looks like it could accomodate 2 fields end over end. It bears a strong resemblance to Palmer Stadium at Princeton, built in 1914. etcweb.princeton.edu/campusimages/54-30.jpeg
|
|
thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,866
|
Post by thebin on Nov 8, 2013 11:59:29 GMT -5
Wow. No pre-game report two weeks in a row? Hoya football is utterly doomed if DFW can't be bothered. Can't blame him a bit.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,861
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 8, 2013 13:03:49 GMT -5
Wow. No pre-game report two weeks in a row? Hoya football is utterly doomed if DFW can't be bothered. Can't blame him a bit. You realize this is a bye week, correct?
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Nov 8, 2013 13:22:03 GMT -5
So kindof off topic but before we went Div. 1 in 1993 we were Div III, with no scholarships. Now the real reason I bring this up is because graduating in 1988 was Captain and All-American Jim Schwartz. Yeah, Detroit Lions' head coach Jim Schwartz. We can be successful without scholarships but we cannot be successful against the opponents we play. As has been said multiple times, the administration needs to decide on a direction for the program and commit to it, instead of just floundering around.
|
|
thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,866
|
Post by thebin on Nov 8, 2013 13:57:01 GMT -5
Wow. No pre-game report two weeks in a row? Hoya football is utterly doomed if DFW can't be bothered. Can't blame him a bit. You realize this is a bye week, correct? Ummmm. No sir i did not! I didn't see a pre-game report last week either though. Did i just miss it?
|
|
|
Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 8, 2013 16:38:58 GMT -5
So kindof off topic but before we went Div. 1 in 1993 we were Div III, with no scholarships. Now the real reason I bring this up is because graduating in 1988 was Captain and All-American Jim Schwartz. Yeah, Detroit Lions' head coach Jim Schwartz. We can be successful without scholarships but we cannot be successful against the opponents we play. As has been said multiple times, the administration needs to decide on a direction for the program and commit to it, instead of just floundering around. I'm confused what Jim Schwartz has to do with anything. He's a successful NFL coach not player.
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Nov 8, 2013 16:43:31 GMT -5
So kindof off topic but before we went Div. 1 in 1993 we were Div III, with no scholarships. Now the real reason I bring this up is because graduating in 1988 was Captain and All-American Jim Schwartz. Yeah, Detroit Lions' head coach Jim Schwartz. We can be successful without scholarships but we cannot be successful against the opponents we play. As has been said multiple times, the administration needs to decide on a direction for the program and commit to it, instead of just floundering around. I'm confused what Jim Schwartz has to do with anything. He's a successful NFL coach not player. I'd consider All-American (academic and athletic) a pretty good success for DivIII.
|
|
|
Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 8, 2013 17:43:24 GMT -5
I'm confused what Jim Schwartz has to do with anything. He's a successful NFL coach not player. I'd consider All-American (academic and athletic) a pretty good success for DivIII. So your point is that we could have D3 All Americans if we played in D3? We had the ECAC Defensive Player of the Year two years ago, which is significantly more impressive than being a D3 All American.
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Nov 8, 2013 17:53:17 GMT -5
No need to read into things that aren't being said to make everything into a disagreement. Which part do you not understand from my original post? Where I start that my comment was mostly off-topic? Or maybe my bringing of an interesting fact that I'm sure not many people knew? Not everything needs to be a point. If you want the real point of my comment, try reading the last two sentences.
|
|
|
Post by hounddog on Nov 18, 2013 17:04:20 GMT -5
Just wanted to share some observations from the perspective of a father of a 2013 kid who was recruited by Georgetown and Lehigh. We are from Indiana and my son went to summer prospect camps at both schools. Both schools actively recruited my son. He took a recruiting visit to Georgetown and liked it a great deal. My son was not a "early offer" type kid in Lehigh's eyes but we did have an in home visit from their coach who was prepared to offer a scholarship depending on what another recruit decided. They at least thought enough of him to visit our house....so it was more than casual interest.
Georgetown + / -'s: Nothing earth shattering here.
(+) Academics (+) Catholic School (+) D.C. area (+) Size of the school (+) Future job prospects (+) Players he stayed with on his trip (+) Coaching staff he met. He really liked Coach Kelly and Coach Sgarlata
(-) Football Stadium (-) Facilities (-) Lack of direction of program
I've read this board on several occasions as I have some of the other boards of schools that were recruiting my son. I don't know Coach Kelly's football style and quite frankly it didn't matter to us as we were looking for a school that fit my son academically and socially.....but not at the expense of dramatically impacting our family financially in order to do so. We are a middle class family that doesn't struggle to earn a living but can't afford a 60k/year education when we still have two other kids to get through college. We did not qualify for any financial aid.
I found Kevin Kelly to be one of the most honorable, honest and genuine people we met on the recruiting trail. I would have had no problem sending my son to school to play for him for four years. We took the recruiting visit knowing full well that Georgetown did not offer scholarships....we did take the trip thinking some type of assistance might be available to possibly get the cost of the education to half of the sticker price. To Coach Kelly's credit he looked me dead in the eye and said...."your son is fortunate to be able to get into Georgetown much less receive any additional financial assistance, there are many other students who might receive money who are far more qualified academically than your son". While some parents may have been put off by this statement, I found it refreshing, honest and genuine as hell. It made me want my son to play for him even more. I became a Georgetown football fan and a Kevin Kelly fan....not really knowing his football acumen or philosophy....it didn't matter as I mentioned previously.
I sensed in our meeting with Coach Kelly that he was frustrated by the lack of scholarships and he did his best to hide it. He did add....."if we gave merit based aid, your son would receive one". Had Coach Kelly had one to offer....my son would have accepted it. We moved on he's playing at a D2 school (on a merit based scholarship) that made the national playoffs that begin Saturday. This recruiting stuff has a way of working itself out, one way or another.
One last thing......I played football at Butler University who at the time was a D2 scholarship football school....they are now a D1 non-scholarship FCS school as many of you know. Obviously, academically they aren't on the same par as Georgetown, Lehigh and the Ivy's but it would be a great conference for Georgetown to join since it does have a mix of some east coast schools and southern schools. The conference might not be a fit academically but it would be a great fit football wise. Butler has a football budget of 650k (one of smallest in FCS) yet has managed to win their conference the last two years. Georgetown could be a sleeping giant should they go this route. Georgetown being in a football conference with Drake, Butler, Dayton, Davidson, etc would not be a bad thing.......though I am guessing that this suggestion would not be looked upon kindly be the folks on this board.....just a suggestion is all.
Just some observations from someone with no skin in the game. Not trying to get anyone riled up, just thought I would share the perspective of a dad who thought GTown was an awesome place for his son to be, in the end we just couldn't swing it financially. Best of luck to Georgetown Football in the future and to Coach Kelly.
|
|
|
Post by indianhoop on Nov 19, 2013 11:47:23 GMT -5
Very illuminating post hounddog. Thank you for sharing and best of luck to your son this week and moving forward.
Your family "sounds" like just the type that HC has had trouble recruiting in the "non-scholarship era" and hopefully we'll be successful in recruiting student-athletes like your son in the future.
|
|