RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,817
|
Post by RusskyHoya on Aug 30, 2013 15:04:42 GMT -5
Hmmm... yea, actually, I'm more inclined now to think you're right, thebin. Although with ODU... are there really FCS programs that pay for guarantee games against other FSC teams? I know ODU is moving up to FBS next year, but presumably they have enough expenses associated with that and the move to CUSA that they wouldn't want to spend any money on securing an opponent.
|
|
|
Post by Problem of Dog on Aug 30, 2013 17:18:51 GMT -5
Then I'm referring to the first two games. Those were miserable football games. Especially the 2009 version, which combined with AWFUL weather to make an ATROCIOUS football game. Everyone watching that game became dumber for watching Miceli's offense blow multiple 1st and Goals without scoring using his signature QB draw. I attended the last two games in the series in person. Couldn't make it to the first one, which was rescheduled onto a Sunday due to a hurricane passing through the area, but I did watch a replay of the game on TV. Anyway, do you really think the Howard AD is making scheduling decisions based on the aesthetic merit of these football games? Come on, that's basically never a consideration. Also, Miceli is long gone. I think the quality of the games put a damper on any enthusiasm that both schools thought the "rivalry" might drum up. Compare that to the fanfare Howard can get going for a game against Morehouse, which isn't even an FCS program, and there doesn't seem to be much of a reason for Howard to play us. We're not exactly talking about two fanbases full of football purists/aficionados here. Certainly the Howard/Morehouse hoopla has zero to do with football quality (Morehouse is a mediocre D-II program) and everything to do with the two schools being the two most storied HBCUs. The fanfare was there for that because of the built in 'Harvard-Yale of the HBCUs' dynamic, but also because the Howard administration put a lot of effort into it. They put basically zero effort into creating a rivalry with Georgetown, which is crazy to me, given how much sense it makes in a number of ways. The only two college football teams in the nation's capital, squaring off yearly as peers; The Mecca vs. Hoya Paranoia; the most revered of the HBCUs vs. the oldest Catholic university. Etc. etc. I know it's a pro sports town and all, but you'd think the colleges would try to put some real effort into it. But, then, neither GU nor HU football really do things the way you might expect. Ummm...yeah I realized Miceli is gone. And did you actually think I was arguing that the Howard AD was making decisions based on the quality of the games? I was simply saying that no one should want us to play each other based on the poor quality of the games in the past. And again, you're basically just continuing my point when it comes to Howard/Morehouse. The quality of the game has nothing to do with it, but the ability to draw fans does. That stupid "Mayor's Cup" idea was never going to catch on, Howard realized this and moved on to a bigger, better non-conference game that would attract non-football fanbases to a football game.
|
|
RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,817
|
Post by RusskyHoya on Sept 7, 2013 22:10:32 GMT -5
Ummm...yeah I realized Miceli is gone. And did you actually think I was arguing that the Howard AD was making decisions based on the quality of the games? I was simply saying that no one should want us to play each other based on the poor quality of the games in the past. And I'm saying that neither fan base is the sort to base anything on aesthetic judgments regarding the elegance of the football being played. People should want these two schools to play each other for reasons that have nothing to do with the virtuosity, or lack thereof, on display in a sample size of three games (and the last game at Howard was not particularly ugly in any way). And again, you're basically just continuing my point when it comes to Howard/Morehouse. The quality of the game has nothing to do with it, but the ability to draw fans does. That stupid "Mayor's Cup" idea was never going to catch on, Howard realized this and moved on to a bigger, better non-conference game that would attract non-football fanbases to a football game. Well, this is where we diverge. Howard already has two marquee games - Morehouse and Homecoming - that turn out lots of people for completely non-football reasons. They don't have to capacity to do that for yet another game, but they do have two more non-conference slots to fill. One is taken up by their guarantee game, in which they serve as sacrificial lambs for cash. That leaves them with the option of either traveling somewhere and getting clobbered by some FCS team for nothing or hosting a game that no one around Howard cares about. Alternatively, they could have a series with Georgetown that people do care about on some level - or at the absolutely very least, involves almost zero travel costs and guarantees more home attendance than the rest of their home games, two marquee games excepted. Talk to some Howard students (and not just the ones that beat up some DPS officers around Henle a few years ago, lol), and the basis for a rivalry is absolutely there. I think it absolutely has the makings of something, if only any of the involves parties were willing to make an effort. But putting yourself out there is inimical to the modus operandi of either Georgetown or Howard.
|
|
RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,817
|
Post by RusskyHoya on Sept 17, 2013 22:24:25 GMT -5
I think we learned two things this past weekend:
1. We should no assume that Georgetown has left Howard behind for good and would dominate a regular series. 2. Howard would be much better off playing us than Old Dominion. 76-19? Are you kidding?
|
|
CAHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,598
|
Post by CAHoya07 on Sept 18, 2013 13:32:18 GMT -5
This program needs clear direction in these changing times, and unfortunately I just don't think we're going to see it, other than the "Stay the Course" mentality so often espoused by Georgetown. Let's face it, the Patriot League with their scholarships will pass us by in a few years, and we need to be looking for a new home. Unfortunately, to me, the far flung Pioneer League seems to be the best option, although it could be fun to play schools like Butler, Valaparaiso, Dayton, and San Diego. We've already played Davidson and Marist this year, and had wildly opposite results. We could still schedule Ivy League and some old Patriot League teams out of conference.
As for another discussion with scheduling - as bad as we've been, I don't think it should be out of the question to schedule a FBS school for a payday. I see two examples from this year: 1) We lost to Wagner 28-21 to open this season, and probably should have won the game. Last week, Wagner lost at Syracuse 54-0. Sure, an ugly looking score, but I'm sure Wagner got paid for it, and based on the competitiveness of our game with Wagner, we should be able to fare about the same. 2) We've been fairly competitive with Fordham in recent years. Now, Fordham is having a hell of a year so far, beating Villanova and even FBS Temple. I know they now have scholarships and we don't, but the fact that we beat Fordham 30-13 two years ago (and only lost 38-31 last year) shows that we may be able to, barely, stay on the field with some FBS teams.
Frankly though, I just don't see it happening, because I don't think the football program has the vision necessary to pull this type of thing off. However, to me, I just don't see a reason why playing a Maryland or Navy wouldn't work.
Overall though, the program just needs to improve, and outside of 2011 when we almost won the Patriot League, I just don't see any progress - always one step forward, two steps back. As DFW often states, the unfinished, unnamed nature of the MSF is a perfect metaphor for the state of the program. No one really cares enough to build it.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,861
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 18, 2013 20:50:44 GMT -5
This program needs clear direction in these changing times, and unfortunately I just don't think we're going to see it, other than the "Stay the Course" mentality so often espoused by Georgetown. Let's face it, the Patriot League with their scholarships will pass us by in a few years, and we need to be looking for a new home. Unfortunately, to me, the far flung Pioneer League seems to be the best option, although it could be fun to play schools like Butler, Valaparaiso, Dayton, and San Diego. We've already played Davidson and Marist this year, and had wildly opposite results. We could still schedule Ivy League and some old Patriot League teams out of conference. The Pioneer is a bad idea for five reasons: 1) Travel costs are exorbitant: probably $50,000 a trip between airfare and lodging, 2) Perception of a de-emphasis among recruits and coaches. 3) No discernible rivalries and negligible fan interest (i.e, "Hey, anyone going to the game with Stetson today?") 4) Degradation of Georgetown's financial aid ability. The PL allows for "buyouts" of need with grant money, which makes Georgetown slightly more competitive to full ride schools to high-need kids. The Pioneer allows none of this so if you have need, you're on your own with the financial aid office. 5) Degradation of talent. Very few skill positions will choose the Pioneer over any other I-AA conference. The next Isaiah Kempf or Andrew Schaetzke is not going to Marist or Valpo. The issue you raise is worth discussing, however. In many ways, Georgetown football is still running on the model proposed by Bob Benson in 1993. Under his plan, GU could compete with the low need kids by selling the benefits of a GU education, and could sign the high-need kids with close to full financial aid comparable to the Ivy and PL schools. The metrics have changed (families under $100K now pay little to nothing to attend an Ivy school now, and the rest of the PL can offer scholarships to everyone) but the same model is still in place. Benson maintained that the missing piece to closing the deal on the competitive kids was the stadium, and were it there, I think Benson (and later, Kelly) would have been able to close the deal on two or three impact recruits a year. This year's class was, by many subjective measures, much weaker than other PL schools and that trend is likely to continue under the twin factors of no movement on scholarships and no movement on facilities. As for conference options, unless GU is willing to be an independent, I think some consideration should be given to the Northeast Conference (NEC). The teams aren't marquee but they are bus trips and a recruiting pool Georgetown could compete against. GU might not get the kid that signs a full ride with Lehigh, but it could win battles with a Duquesne or a St. Francis. The NEC has no academic index to restrict recruiting as there is in the Patriot and can offer up to 40 scholarships, but as GU proved with Wagner, they are somewhat competitive despite the numbers gap. That won't be the case for long in the PL.
|
|