Joshua Smith Discussion

[FrazierFanatic]

Oct 24, 2013 10:18:59 GMT -5 guru said:

Oct 24, 2013 8:36:32 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

How so? Are we going to see a rash of transfers six games in? The NCAA doesn't seem overly concerned with the public view of consistency anyway, but even if this became hard and fast precedent (and I've never seen anything go that way), there's an easy line to draw on the number of games.

I think people are also missing the high chance of extenuating circumstances. Howland fostered an abusive atmosphere at UCLA at minimum; some of that has been documented in the public press. I realize a lot of people think that getting pelted with basketballs and constant verbal abuse is something someone should man up and take, but in this day and age, it's not really acceptable. And it's certainly something the NCAA could grant a waiver on.

I'm not saying something happened to Josh that was drastic; I'm just saying that the Howland regime was out of control. And I'd sure as heck grant a waiver to a kid who didn't want to play in that atmosphere anymore. There's no way Howland represented himself truthfully when he recruited these guys.

Obviously, it opens the door for first semester transfers to expect to regain that semester of eligibility at their new school. That's all I'm saying. There are a lot of bad coaches and programs out there - and the NCAA didn't improve the situation by apparently telling some reporters that Josh's weight problems played into it. There are exceptions for being fat now? It makes very little sense - the only saving grace is that the NCAA has historically not cared about conflicting decisions. What a circus.

In these politically correct times, obesity is a disease and a disability - maybe this really was a medical redshirt decision. I wonder how our request discussed that issue?

[prhoya]

Oct 24, 2013 10:50:53 GMT -5 Jack said:

Oct 24, 2013 8:37:57 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

As for the effect on the team. Fantastic. A real, reliable low post game. We haven't had that for a while. Honestly, we haven't had an automatic double since Roy.

I realize they are different types of player, and I admit I don't remember anything about Smith's game from whatever I saw of UCLA the past few years, but is he that much better a low post threat than Greg Monroe that we have to skip back to Roy to find a comparison? If so, that is both exciting and surprising.

Check the last paragraph:
www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2013/10/23/georgetown-baskeball-josh-smith-ucla-eligible/3173571/

[DFW HOYA]

Oct 24, 2013 11:01:18 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

This does bring up an interesting point though. Say the NCAA had rejected both of our requests. Then Josh would have two semesters of eligibility. Would it have been possible for him to sit out the fall semester in 2013 and the fall semester in 2014 and play in the spring of 2014 and spring of 2015 for two seasons?

Not likely because of the NCAA five year rule.

[hoyaboya]

Supposedly some Twitter suggestions out there that it's a medical redshirt based on some sort of psychological problem? I'm sure we'll never know the full deal (medical privacy issues and all that)...just happy that the Hoyas apparently played the game to their advantage in this case. Part of me feels like the NCAA gave Georgetown a break knowing we're getting screwed in the whole football-rules-everything-now world we live in.

[bmartin]

Oct 24, 2013 11:01:18 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

This does bring up an interesting point though. Say the NCAA had rejected both of our requests. Then Josh would have two semesters of eligibility. Would it have been possible for him to sit out the fall semester in 2013 and the fall semester in 2014 and play in the spring of 2014 and spring of 2015 for two seasons?

And I'd also like to point out that Josh sat out the Spring semester of 2013 (and summer technically) so he didn't get an immediate waiver like alot of writers seems to be saying.

NO. He would not have had two semesters of eligibility to use as he/GU wished.

He would have had one season of eligibility which he could have used this season after the end of the fall semester or sat out the entire season and had a full season next year.

The NCAA was in a box of their own making. It is obvious even to them that it would be unfair to Smith if they did not grant either waiver and he was left with a choice of spring this season or sit out a full season. They don't have an option to count last season as a partial season and dock him six games. It either counts as a full season or not at all. They obviously believed that UCLA had some responsibility for the situation so they gave him a break. It is still surprising that they waived the year in residence, but I think they essentially approved of his decision to leave UCLA and gave him credit for proving in his time at Georgetown that he is not a trouble-maker.

[calhoya]

Oct 24, 2013 13:01:51 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Supposedly some Twitter suggestions out there that it's a medical redshirt based on some sort of psychological problem? I'm sure we'll never know the full deal (medical privacy issues and all that)...just happy that the Hoyas apparently played the game to their advantage in this case. Part of me feels like the NCAA gave Georgetown a break knowing we're getting screwed in the whole football-rules-everything-now world we live in.

The saddest part of this is that the system is so convoluted that when decisions like this are announced, people get in an uproar and social media runs wild with speculation about the kid and potential medical/psychological issues. I know that no one wants to see kids transferring in and out of programs at will, but in a world where coaches can leave a program at any time or be fired without any consequences and scholarships can be taken away from players without cause or those players can be recruited over by the coach, it is hard to justify all of the hoops that a kid has to jump through to transfer to a school tht might be a better fit.

[royski]

This is awesome.

[DownTownJoeyBrown]

Oct 24, 2013 0:07:21 GMT -5 chep3 said:

Wow this is huge (literally). Would love a 25/15 minute platoon with him and Moses for the next two years. I don't know what motivated this ruling, and I get why it's raising some hackles, but I will absolutely take it. Was hoping for 3 semesters from him, but 4 is fantastic. Hopefully, he can put it together in the next two years and get himself in shape enough to make it to the next level.

Awesome news on Josh. I for one, am a bit fed up with the fat jokes though. And not to pick on you in particular, but after taking 20 minutes this evening to catch up on the big news I have stumbled across a dozen. The kid knows he is fat, we know he is fat but give him a chance to turn it around and quit defining him by his weight problem. He is a member of the team and needs the support of the fans. That is all.

[tashoya]

According to one of those articles, Josh has reported that he's down to 310. That seems to speak to his "level of commitment" which has been a target nearly as much as his weight has been. He's still a young man with a future ahead of him that is largely dependent on his own choices. I don't think it's out of line to be a bit hesitant but, in his time as a Hoya, he hasn't yet given a reason to be pessimistic. I hope for him and for our Hoyas that he's making the most of this chance to show what he can do and what kind of player and person he can be. The ruling is fantastic news that, given his rocky road at UCLA, has to come as a nice boost to Josh personally. The other Hoyas seem to really like him and sung his praises in terms of what he added as a practice player last year. They've gotta be loving this news too. And, considering the guys that have come before him, for JT3 to say that Josh has the potential to become the best big man he's coached, that's saying something. I hope Big Roy is in contact with him or, at the least, Josh sees what can be accomplished with a ton of effort and the right people around to help. Best of luck to young Mr. Smith. Great news for a change! Hoya Saxa!

[hoyainspirit]

RobDauster wrote: This is a good take on Josh Smith's waiver from @john_infante: NCAA Hints At New Stance on Abuse and Mental Health in Waiver Decisions

For all its faults, the NCAA’s waiver system has the advantage of being able to handle lots of different situations. The way the NCAA handles those situations can also give glimpses into how the NCAA is approaching certain issues. Josh Smith’s waiver to play immediately at Georgetown and get back the season of competition he used in 2012-13 is a great example of this.

On its face, Smith’s transfer has none of the traditional hallmarks of a great waiver case. He moved further from home and nothing like a sick relative or other hardship has been reported. The NCAA’s comment on the case is vague, but does offer one clue:

> An NCAA spokesman couldn’t shed much light on that because of student-athlete privacy concerns. In an email Thursday morning, he said only that the waiver was approved after a “thorough review” and the decision was based on “the totality of circumstances and **well-being of the student-athlete**.” (_emphasis added_)...



The NCAA’s role in protecting players from abuse and ensuring the mental health of student-athletes should be priorities for the organization on the same level of governance reform and concussions. And there are indications that they are priorities, from the handling of the Rutgers and Rice transfers to the NCAA’s endorsement of mental health guidelines. All of this is tied together by the criticism of the NCAA’s transfer rules which says the penalties and limits placed on transfer student-athletes forces them to stay and suffer abuse by coaches.

So to the extent that the NCAA is addressing this issue, this is a positive change. The question now is whether the waiver process is the right way to do it. The best way to enact policy through the waiver process is to box that process in with guidelines. But is that possible with issues like mental health and coaching abuse? Permitting more flexibility in mental health diagnoses makes sense. But bringing defining abuse by coaches is impossible without essentially enacting conduct rules coaches must follow at all times.

If the NCAA members cannot come up with some guidelines and documentation standards, then these issues (rather than this one case) might tip the scales toward rewriting the transfer rules themselves. It might not solve the problem (allowing revenue sports to use the one-time transfer exception doesn’t help an athlete who transferred to a school with an abusive coach) but it could limit the number of waivers to the point where case-by-case determination is more appropriate.

[jgalt]

I think another factor is the Gtown may just be better at dealing with the NCAA than some other schools. Not having a major football program probably helps too in that it cuts down on the number on compliance issues that the NCAA has to deal with regarding Gtown.

[hoyainspirit]

Oct 24, 2013 22:09:48 GMT -5 jgalt said:

I think another factor is the Gtown may just be better at dealing with the NCAA than some other schools. Not having a major football program probably helps too in that it cuts down on the number on compliance issues that the NCAA has to deal with regarding Gtown.

I'm not sure I can draw that same conclusion. I thought we got hosed with Moses. As well, Nikita Mescheriakov lost 10 games playing for a team in Belarus for which he was not paid.

[tashoya]

Oct 24, 2013 22:15:37 GMT -5 hoyainspirit said:

Oct 24, 2013 22:09:48 GMT -5 jgalt said:

I think another factor is the Gtown may just be better at dealing with the NCAA than some other schools. Not having a major football program probably helps too in that it cuts down on the number on compliance issues that the NCAA has to deal with regarding Gtown.

I'm not sure I can draw that same conclusion. I thought we got hosed with Moses. As well, Nikita Mescheriakov lost 10 games playing for a team in Belarus for which he was not paid.

The same thoughts popped into my head too. The Moses situation was especially ridiculous.

[lichoya68]

interestiong thoughts by rabumeister guy very thoughts about the student athlete taken into consideration VERY NOVEL idea by the ncaa yes

[SSHoya]

Seems like waivers are coming for reasons no one would have every guessed:

espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9877415/oregon-ducks-transfer-joseph-young-play-immediately

Because his father was "reassigned on the Houston staff" he gets a waiver? I'm not even sure I know what that means.

[hoyainspirit]

Oct 25, 2013 8:49:55 GMT -5 lichoya68 said:

interestiong thoughts by rabumeister guy very thoughts about the student athlete taken into consideration VERY NOVEL idea by the ncaa yes

Thought you might find that one interesting, lic.

[Boz]

Oct 25, 2013 8:49:55 GMT -5 lichoya68 said:

interestiong thoughts by rabumeister guy very thoughts about the student athlete taken into consideration VERY NOVEL idea by the ncaa yes

I've found lic's posts to be extremely entertaining when I read them in my Yoda voice.

[AltoSaxa]

Does the NCAA grant this waiver is Pastner is the coach? I wonder how much of the decision was based on which program (and head coach) he was going to.

[CaliHoya]

I was just looking at Josh Smith's stats and can't help but get excited. His freshman season was so promising, and if he can get to that level this year and surpass it next year, we're in for a treat. Here's his game log, where you can see what a beast on the offensive glass he's been:

sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/players/97373/gamelog

In fact, his offensive rebounding percentage was 2nd in the nation that year (behind Faried), and remains the 2nd highest posted in the past 4 seasons:

www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/2011.html

The main difference between his freshman and sophomore years is that he was not in good enough shape his sophomore year to play the same number of minutes, and his stats fell off. Here's hoping for a return to form, Josh!

[strummer8526]

I see he's never attempted a 3-pointer. Over-under on the number of games before he chucks one a-la freshman Henry Sims.