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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Jan 2, 2014 4:12:36 GMT -5
If Josh is conditioned, he is DeMarcus Cousins 2.0. I am looking forward to see him achieve that.
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Post by wahoohoya on Jan 2, 2014 6:57:54 GMT -5
To me it's pretty simple. Josh Smith plays with no heart. Moses does. Josh needs to play like someone who wants to play. His attitude is affecting the chemistry of the entire team. I hope coach gets behind Moses this season. Josh can get better, but it is up to him. People are going to see what they want to see. I personally don't see this at all (evaluating the entire season rather than a few select plays). I do see a guy who has been frustrated recently, but not a player who seems disinterested. And if there are indeed issues with team chemistry, you have to first look to the senior leaders and the head coach. I'd like to see more driving and dishing from Starks and DSR. They seemed to have gotten away from that lately. I think we can all agree Josh is a great finisher (when he doesn't have three defenders hanging on his back). I'd also like to see Josh kick it out more to open shooters when he is swarmed. Classic big man involvement stuff - if you don't get them the ball cleanly and consistently, shots tend to get forced and bad things start to happen. That is what I'm seeing. Hopefully Coach and players work things out. While this team has major flaws, I still think it has the potential to be a good offensive team. |
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Jan 2, 2014 7:49:32 GMT -5
There is no margin for error with Smith on the floor. We need the outside game working and a rebounder at the 4 position. When other teams can cheat and collapse on Smith, he is a liability on both ends of the court. When they have to respect the shooting of Starks/DSR everything opens up on offense. Driving and dishing is a good strategy, but again it is only really possible when the Hoyas present an outside threat. Otherwise, the opponent plays a tighter zone and when our players drive they will simply try to strip the ball as they did repeatedly with DSR the other night. The one advantage to the drive and dish approach is the "new" foul approach which clearly favors offensive players and puts defenders much more on their heels when a player attacks the rim.
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Post by dungeon ball on Jan 2, 2014 9:25:44 GMT -5
I'm with wahoohoya. I swear I'm not a Josh apologist, but you all are making me into one. I feel like people that are saying he's worthless out there and has no heart, have made up their minds about him and are not really watching what he's doing out there. In his limited minutes in the 2nd half, he drew a charge on Melvin, blocked another shot by Melvin, and drew two fouls on offense because of the position he was able to establish (he was not good at the line though).
When he's in the low post, he's fighting to establish position. He moves when the ball is being moved around the perimeter to create passing angles to receive the ball. He sets screens and then cuts effectively to the hoop. And he does all of these things better than any other option we have at the 5.
Yes, his D and rebounding are generally atrocious right now, and yes I hope he shows improvement and more energy, but to dismiss what he's doing out there and saying he has no heart isn't fair either.
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Post by wahoohoya on Jan 2, 2014 9:27:57 GMT -5
I think DSR would be less prone to getting stripped if he was looking to dish more rather than figuring out how he is going to finish in traffic, which usually doesn't end well.
I still would like to see more inside out movement in this offense. I think our erratic outside shooting is mostly a result of not getting the cleanest looks / taking bad shots. A little two man game between Josh and DSR/Markel/Cameron could help get guys in a rhythm from the outside, which in turn should open the offense up. Easier said than done, I know, but I just haven't seen an emphasis on kicking the ball out from the post.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 2, 2014 10:39:46 GMT -5
I think we need to be careful about saying people don't play with "heart." What does that even mean? And who judges whether you have heart or not? Unless anybody has inside access to the team or players, I certainly don't think any of us are equipped to say one way or another who has "heart."
Some people just seem to be predisposed toward disliking Josh. People can say they wish the Smith era would end as soon as possible, but the fact is it won't end anytime soon. Moses had a great game against DePaul, but he gets into as much foul trouble as Smith, and he has had offensive difficulties in the past. I like Moses and think he deserves to play too, but the fact is both Smith and Moses have their strengths and weaknesses at this point. Also, with Smith likely to rejoin the team next year, it's in all of our interest to see him improve this year.
The real key is to figure out how to get Smith in a better position to score because that's where his value lies. One of the problems is that many of our opponents have given us a tight zone, which makes it very hard for Smith to score, especially since DSR and Starks haven't been that sharp from three point range, and there really are no other threats from three point range aside from those two (Cameron gets too little playing time to be considered a major threat).
The fact is Smith is a very talented offensive player, but the rest is incomplete. Luckily, we have 3 months left to the season (hopefully a little more than that!), and another year after that for Smith to improve. I'd love to see Moses improve alongside Smith as well, because I do think he brings a lot of value.
Since the 2014 class has no center, I'd actually like to see Smith and Moses both return next year.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 2, 2014 11:33:02 GMT -5
Agree, hs2003. I also think we need to be careful about subscribing effort based solely on results. Or maybe just be more even with it. Josh has had all of about two-three months of formal coaching at Georgetown.
Jabril Trawick, Nate Lubick and others have all had 2-3 years and their jumpers seem stuck in neutral. I know Markel and DSR get up at 6 (or whatever that article said) to shoot FTs. Do these guys?
Aaron Bowen is just starting to realize what good shots are. Mikael still has no real idea (though he is rebounding). Again 2-3 years each and what seems like a simple change is not so simple. Are they also not trying?
This board loves Greg Whittington, but he couldn't do something so simple as show up for a final.
Weight loss on the scale that Josh needs to attempt is a massive behavior change. Change and improvement are hard. Sometimes it is effort; sometimes it isn't so simple. And sometimes it does click later than two months into a junior year -- look at both Vernon Macklin and Hank Sims, who both took that long to realize how hard they needed to work.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 2, 2014 13:11:41 GMT -5
Good points, SF. One must also remember that these are kids for the most part. A year or two ago, some of these guys were in high school. It's really easy to forget that because the guys are generally physically mature and often look older than their true age, but they are really teenagers or young adults. I'm sure that Macklin and Sims' improvement had a lot to do with maturity, in addition to effort and focus (clearly, both of them were talented athletes).
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lb25
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by lb25 on Jan 2, 2014 14:06:07 GMT -5
I think Josh Smith needs to be more active while out there. make an effort to move without the ball. if that means he only gets a few mins at a time then go hard for those mins..his body needs to get used to going hard each play.If he can do that we will see a consistent player out there
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jan 2, 2014 14:46:37 GMT -5
I think we need to be careful about saying people don't play with "heart." What does that even mean? And who judges whether you have heart or not? Unless anybody has inside access to the team or players, I certainly don't think any of us are equipped to say one way or another who has "heart." Some people just seem to be predisposed toward disliking Josh. People can say they wish the Smith era would end as soon as possible, but the fact is it won't end anytime soon. Moses had a great game against DePaul, but he gets into as much foul trouble as Smith, and he has had offensive difficulties in the past. I like Moses and think he deserves to play too, but the fact is both Smith and Moses have their strengths and weaknesses at this point. Also, with Smith likely to rejoin the team next year, it's in all of our interest to see him improve this year. The real key is to figure out how to get Smith in a better position to score because that's where his value lies. One of the problems is that many of our opponents have given us a tight zone, which makes it very hard for Smith to score, especially since DSR and Starks haven't been that sharp from three point range, and there really are no other threats from three point range aside from those two (Cameron gets too little playing time to be considered a major threat). The fact is Smith is a very talented offensive player, but the rest is incomplete. Luckily, we have 3 months left to the season (hopefully a little more than that!), and another year after that for Smith to improve. I'd love to see Moses improve alongside Smith as well, because I do think he brings a lot of value. Since the 2014 class has no center, I'd actually like to see Smith and Moses both return next year. Yes, what does it mean to play with heart. I seem to remember that "people" accused Jeff of not playing with heart, because he did not outwardly convey much emotion. But we all know how much truth that had. I think inwardly Josh is trying, but is limited because of his weight problems. Look at Mike Sweeney before and after his weight problems - All American at GU, out of the NBA after. |
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jan 2, 2014 14:46:37 GMT -5
I think we need to be careful about saying people don't play with "heart." What does that even mean? And who judges whether you have heart or not? Unless anybody has inside access to the team or players, I certainly don't think any of us are equipped to say one way or another who has "heart." Some people just seem to be predisposed toward disliking Josh. People can say they wish the Smith era would end as soon as possible, but the fact is it won't end anytime soon. Moses had a great game against DePaul, but he gets into as much foul trouble as Smith, and he has had offensive difficulties in the past. I like Moses and think he deserves to play too, but the fact is both Smith and Moses have their strengths and weaknesses at this point. Also, with Smith likely to rejoin the team next year, it's in all of our interest to see him improve this year. The real key is to figure out how to get Smith in a better position to score because that's where his value lies. One of the problems is that many of our opponents have given us a tight zone, which makes it very hard for Smith to score, especially since DSR and Starks haven't been that sharp from three point range, and there really are no other threats from three point range aside from those two (Cameron gets too little playing time to be considered a major threat). The fact is Smith is a very talented offensive player, but the rest is incomplete. Luckily, we have 3 months left to the season (hopefully a little more than that!), and another year after that for Smith to improve. I'd love to see Moses improve alongside Smith as well, because I do think he brings a lot of value. Since the 2014 class has no center, I'd actually like to see Smith and Moses both return next year. Yes, what does it mean to play with heart. I seem to remember that "people" accused Jeff of not playing with heart, because he did not outwardly convey much emotion. But we all know how much truth that had. I think inwardly Josh is trying, but is limited because of his weight problems. Look at Mike Sweeney before and after his weight problems - All American at GU, out of the NBA after. |
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jan 2, 2014 17:36:13 GMT -5
Playing hard without fouling or turning the ball over is a challenge for big men. Moses gets more defensive rebounds and blocks than Smith but also he commits 9.5 fouls per 40 minutes and turns the ball over twice as often as Josh.
I think Josh gets frustrated because he wants to stay on the floor and when he has played aggressively, he picked up cheap fouls. With his size, when he is moving on defense an opponent just has to bump him to draw a foul call. On offense, I still think the bigger problem is the lack of a scoring forward from the elbow and baseline. Teams can double Josh and deny the post pass without giving up a high percentage shot.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 2, 2014 18:04:27 GMT -5
Playing hard without fouling or turning the ball over is a challenge for big men. Moses gets more defensive rebounds and blocks than Smith but also he commits 9.5 fouls per 40 minutes and turns the ball over twice as often as Josh. I think Josh gets frustrated because he wants to stay on the floor and when he has played aggressively, he picked up cheap fouls. With his size, when he is moving on defense an opponent just has to bump him to draw a foul call. On offense, I still think the bigger problem is the lack of a scoring forward from the elbow and baseline. Teams can double Josh and deny the post pass without giving up a high percentage shot. +1 |
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 2, 2014 18:28:26 GMT -5
If a player is a McDonald's All-American and struggling with rebounds and defense...
I would try the Burger King's All-American till further notice.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 2, 2014 19:22:19 GMT -5
I think Josh Smith needs to be more active while out there. make an effort to move without the ball. if that means he only gets a few mins at a time then go hard for those mins..his body needs to get used to going hard each play.If he can do that we will see a consistent player out there Agree 100%. The way to get into playing shape is to go all out while on the court and maybe next time or the time after that you will find you can go longer. |
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Jan 3, 2014 16:30:31 GMT -5
I think Josh Smith needs to be more active while out there. make an effort to move without the ball. if that means he only gets a few mins at a time then go hard for those mins..his body needs to get used to going hard each play.If he can do that we will see a consistent player out there Agree 100%. The way to get into playing shape is to go all out while on the court and maybe next time or the time after that you will find you can go longer. Most people are overthinking Joshua's ineffectiveness recently. He is effective only when we gets the ball within 8 feet of the rim, where he is absolutely deadly. But now that there is a decent body of work, what are coaches seeing with our team? We have shot 195 3-pointers on the season. Of those, DSR and Starks have shot 122 and made them at a 43% and 30% clip respectively (Starks better as of late). Other than those two, only Cameron is a legitimate threat from outside (9/24, 37.5%), and he hardly plays. Everyone else on the team is 9/49 from outside (18.3%) for the season. As a result, the entry-pass defender can almost always sag down to block the pass to Joshua. Which is exactly what they are doing, if you watch, and it works perfectly. Joshua's effectiveness is neutralized almost entirely by the little respect a team can give our 3-point shooting. They invite 3-pointers from everyone but DSR, Markel, and Cameron because it is effectively a turnover if we shoot it. I really think that is all there is to it. Coach can fix this in two ways: (1) Only play Joshua when DSR, Markel, and Cameron are in so sagging is punished with high-percentage 3-pointers, which hurts our defense; or (2) design plays entirely around getting the ball into the paint (which he doesn't like to do), probably by setting multiple picks or swinging the ball around a ton. |
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 3, 2014 23:06:40 GMT -5
el still has no real idea (though he is rebounding). Again 2-3 years each and what seems like a simple change is not so simple. Are they also not trying? This board loves Greg Whittington, but he couldn't do something so simple as show up for a . . . Yeah it's one of life's great mysteries why a guy (Whittington) who let last year's team down and cost us a chance to move far in the tournament is still idolized and worshipped over a guy (Joshua) who is trying really hard and wants to be here. |
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Post by strummer8526 on Jan 4, 2014 0:48:03 GMT -5
Agree 100%. The way to get into playing shape is to go all out while on the court and maybe next time or the time after that you will find you can go longer. Most people are overthinking Joshua's ineffectiveness recently. He is effective only when we gets the ball within 8 feet of the rim, where he is absolutely deadly. But now that there is a decent body of work, what are coaches seeing with our team? We have shot 195 3-pointers on the season. Of those, DSR and Starks have shot 122 and made them at a 43% and 30% clip respectively (Starks better as of late). Other than those two, only Cameron is a legitimate threat from outside (9/24, 37.5%), and he hardly plays. Everyone else on the team is 9/49 from outside (18.3%) for the season. As a result, the entry-pass defender can almost always sag down to block the pass to Joshua. Which is exactly what they are doing, if you watch, and it works perfectly. Joshua's effectiveness is neutralized almost entirely by the little respect a team can give our 3-point shooting. They invite 3-pointers from everyone but DSR, Markel, and Cameron because it is effectively a turnover if we shoot it. I really think that is all there is to it. Coach can fix this in two ways: (1) Only play Joshua when DSR, Markel, and Cameron are in so sagging is punished with high-percentage 3-pointers, which hurts our defense; or (2) design plays entirely around getting the ball into the paint (which he doesn't like to do), probably by setting multiple picks or swinging the ball around a ton. DSR and Starks play a lot of minutes. Do most teams have 3+ sharpshooters on the court at one time? I suspect that most don't. So why are other teams able to get the ball to their bigs, and we have ours running aimlessly around the three-point line setting screen after screen? Maybe if he were faster, Smith could set a screen and then roll to the basket, but he's not. So once he's out there, he's basically stuck for the rest of the play. |
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 4, 2014 0:58:41 GMT -5
I like the progress Joshua has made. He's constantly looking to pass to the cutters on the backdoor. It's not working yet but by the end of the season it's going to pay dividends.
He also actually has nice touch and good form on his free throws. So that's something that I think he can improve significantly on if he relaxes more.
It also bodes well for him having a midrange game late this year or next year from the high post.
We should be able to utilize him like Davante Gardner at the very least. Gardner gave us alot of trouble last year because we had nobody that size that could hold their ground against him. I think the key though is that the other 4 players have to be very active and always moving (like Marquette does) or the defense will just sag in on Joshua and prevent the entry pass.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 4, 2014 8:40:42 GMT -5
The problems for Smith lately are both obvious (conditioning) and more subtle. As important as the outside shooting of Starks and DSR, is the lack of offense from Lubick and Trawick. It is simply much easier to guard against entry passes to an immobile big when there is little need to guard the two players at the 3-4 positions on the floor. It is critical for Josh's success to get more offensive production out of those positions. Hopkins, Cameon and Bowen become important in that regard today. Cameron can spot up and hit the outside shot--he needs to be incorporated into the offense whenever he is in the game. Bowen has backed off the 3 pt. shot and become a very dangerous player with back cuts and slashing through the lane. More of the same is needed, plus he adds the dimension of being a small forward who rebounds well because of his athleticism. Hopkins offers the greatest upside today. He needs to be active on offense and defense and he needs to finish his shots, around the basket. Hopkins' biggest problem is staying involved in the game and avoiding the stupid fouls that keep him out of the flow. Finally, Trawick and Lubick are both "heart" players with an intensity that is necessary for this team. Trawick, in particular, should be a major contributor, with a better handle than Bowen or DSR, and better defense. Although I have waited patiently for each to break out offensively, a more realistic approach might be to limit the time they spend on the floor together if it appears after the first part of the game that neither is part of the offense.
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