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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jan 9, 2013 18:07:31 GMT -5
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 9, 2013 19:20:11 GMT -5
Taxing something that you want to encourage (hybrid/electric vehicles over gas guzzlers) and dropping the tax on something you want to deter is awful policy.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 9, 2013 19:22:52 GMT -5
Topic is greatly misleading. Should read "Virginia: No Gas Tax; Up Sales Tax; Tax Hybrids".
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jan 9, 2013 19:26:00 GMT -5
Topic is greatly misleading. Should read "Virginia: No Gas Tax; Up Sales Tax; Tax Hybrids". Duly noted. How would you feel about a $100/year tax for anyone over the age of 65 who breathes Virginia air? Sound silly? About as silly as a tax for owning a hybrid. Why not a $100/year tax on people who own Creed albums, or people who own ODU basketball season tickets? What's the legitimate state interest here that allows discrimination against hybrid owners? |
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 9, 2013 19:29:22 GMT -5
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 10, 2013 9:46:58 GMT -5
I don't know what everyone is complaining about.
Hybrid vehicles are very expensive. I think it's only right that the fat cats who are able to afford them pay their fair share.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jan 10, 2013 9:59:41 GMT -5
I don't know what everyone is complaining about. Hybrid vehicles are very expensive. I think it's only right that the fat cats who are able to afford them pay their fair share. Right, because ending special tax treatment for corporate jets (that's what you're referring to, right?) and imposing a new tax on hybrid vehicles (or corporate jets, or whatever) for the mere act of owning a hybrid vehicle is totally the same thing. (For the record, I acknowledge that the eliminating tax breaks for corporate jets "debate" was a cheap political stunt.) |
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 10, 2013 10:01:08 GMT -5
Why is Bob McDonnell against energy independence?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 10, 2013 10:06:11 GMT -5
Why is Bob McDonnell against energy independence? Because it's patriotic and environmentally responsible to be in the pocket of foreign oil companies. Just ask Al Gore. |
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jan 10, 2013 10:08:37 GMT -5
So here's the apparent explanation from McDonnell's office (via the link TC provided above):
"Impose a $100 annual Alternative Fuel Vehicle Fee and dedicate the revenues to transit: The governor is a strong supporter of alternative fuel vehicles. He has directed that Virginia's state fleet be converted to natural gas vehicles. And he knows that alternative fuel vehicles will only continue to grow in popularity and use in the years ahead. In fact, over the past four years, as gas prices have grown from less than $2 per gallon to as high as $4, more Virginians have turned to alternative fuel vehicles. There are over 91,000 of these vehicles currently registered in Virginia. This is a great development for energy security and conservation, but it does present a challenge to how transportation funding has been derived in America for the past century. Drivers of alternative fuel vehicles that use natural gas or electricity pay no motor fuels tax at the state or federal level and thus do not contribute to the primary means of funding roads However, these vehicles still have the same impact on Virginia's roadways as conventional fuel vehicles.."
The problem here is that unless the media is misreporting which vehicles would be covered by the new tax (which is certainly possible), this is factually incorrect. If I own a Toyota Camry Hybrid, I pay gas taxes. You want to apply this logic solely to Nissan Leafs and CNG vehicles? Fine, I get that. How many Nissan Leafs are there in Virginia? 500? Great revenue stream there.
And I love that the argument is that hybrid owners pay no state gas tax, which is being eliminated.
If Virginia was really interested in examining the "impact on roadways" by vehicle, there would be a huge additional tax on commercial motor vehicles. Oh wait, that's politically untenable for the same reason that we can't raise the gas tax? Never mind.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 10, 2013 11:18:12 GMT -5
And I love that the argument is that hybrid owners pay no state gas tax, which is being eliminated. One correction - I think his argument is that electric + natgas vehicles pay no federal gas tax - and because they pay no federal gas tax, they aren't contributing towards the federal transportation money that Virginia receives. Do federal gas taxes even work like a lockbox though? Are federal transportation dollars only funded and capped at federal gas tax revenues? If I'm making $500,000 a year, and being taxed at the top bracket a great deal, and I buy a Nissan Leaf, am I really somehow escaping my responsibility to fund the federal transportation money that VA receives? His argument is just disingenuous - every argument he's made about the state gas tax being an outmoded "dinosaur tax" applies to federal gasoline taxes, and because I'd love to see any other area where Bob McDonnell is truly concerned about people not paying federal taxes. Also, if you follow his logic, those $100 taxes should go to the federal government, not to the state of VA. This is hippie punching for nickels, this is trying to take from NoVA to give to Richmond, this is an effort to get big oil companies to fund his 2016 Presidential campaign. It is absolutely ludicrous policy, so I don't know how you be anything but cynical about his motivations here. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 10, 2013 11:30:03 GMT -5
Hybrid vehicles are very expensive. I think it's only right that the fat cats who are able to afford them pay their fair share. So are BMW's, Lexuses, Porsches, and Hummers, but no $100 tax is being tagged on to them - and natgas vehicles - which are subject to the $100 tax - are not necessarily very expensive or any more expensive than conventional gas. If he wanted to make this about the price of the automobile, that's a strange but more defensible argument than whatever he is doing here. |
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jan 10, 2013 11:35:38 GMT -5
And I love that the argument is that hybrid owners pay no state gas tax, which is being eliminated. One correction - I think his argument is that electric + natgas vehicles pay no federal gas tax - and because they pay no federal gas tax, they aren't contributing towards the federal transportation money that Virginia receives. Do federal gas taxes even work like a lockbox though? Are federal transportation dollars only funded and capped at federal gas tax revenues? If I'm making $500,000 a year, and being taxed at the top bracket a great deal, and I buy a Nissan Leaf, am I really somehow escaping my responsibility to fund the federal transportation money that VA receives? His argument is just disingenuous - every argument he's made about the state gas tax being an outmoded "dinosaur tax" applies to federal gasoline taxes, and because I'd love to see any other area where Bob McDonnell is truly concerned about people not paying federal taxes. Also, if you follow his logic, those $100 taxes should go to the federal government, not to the state of VA. This is hippie punching for nickels, this is trying to take from NoVA to give to Richmond, this is an effort to get big oil companies to fund his 2016 Presidential campaign. It is absolutely ludicrous policy, so I don't know how you be anything but cynical about his motivations here. Totally agree with all of this. Sorry that my post wasn't clear: the statement does refer to "motor fuels tax at the state or federal level." I agree that there's an argument to be made WRT federal transportation dollars; it's just ludicrous that they're even mentioning state gas tax in the same breath. And again, even if we're buying the tenuous link between owning a hybrid vehicle and shorting VA on federal transportation dollars, the argument wouldn't apply to gas-electric hybrid owners, who do pay gas taxes. I guess this is what you get with one-term governors? |
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 10, 2013 11:46:15 GMT -5
Totally agree with all of this. Sorry that my post wasn't clear: the statement does refer to "motor fuels tax at the state or federal level." I agree that there's an argument to be made WRT federal transportation dollars; it's just ludicrous that they're even mentioning state gas tax in the same breath. I totally missed that he actually mentioned the state gas tax (that's he's proposing removing) - I was giving him far too much credit for putting together any sort of logical argument here. You're absolutely right. Also I'll be interested if this changes the price of gas whatsoever in VA. I have to assume that it'll just be taken in profits rather than be represented in lower prices. |
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jan 10, 2013 11:55:02 GMT -5
CATO doesn't like McDonnell's plan: "However, McDonnell proposes to replace the gas tax with a 0.8-cent sales tax that he says will generate more revenue than the gas tax. If your only goal is to make government bigger, then generating revenue is a good idea. However, if your goal is to have better roads, then even a gas tax makes more sense than a sales tax."www.cato.org/blog/end-gas-tax-yes-pay-roads-sales-tax-noMaryland really doesn't like it: "The plan, which would make Virginia the first state to scrap the gas tax entirely, would have significant implications if it were approved by the Republican-controlled legislature in Richmond. Among other things, it would create an incentive for Marylanders to gas up south of the Potomac rather than pay their home state's gas tax of 23.5 cents a gallon.
Kirk McCauley, director of member relations and government affairs for the Washington, Maryland, Delaware Service Station and Automotive Repair Association, said the proposal would be "devastating for our dealers" because it would make gas much cheaper in Virginia than in Maryland.
"We already have a problem along the border. Now, this is going to reach five to 10 miles inside of Maryland," McCauley said."articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-01-09/news/bs-md-virginia-gas-tax-20130109_1_gas-tax-transportation-projects-sales-taxON EDIT: Will any Bob McDonnell fans support the governor on this hybrid vehicle tax? Anyone have any reason to support this other than "I don't like taxes" and "Prius drivers are smug pricks?" |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 10, 2013 13:10:44 GMT -5
"Prius drivers are smug pricks?" All the reason I need. As for you, TC, Porsche, BMW, Lexus and Hummer do make expensive cars. They also each make hybrids and, while I have not researched this, I can guarantee they are all more expensive than their non-hybrid equivalent. So, yeah, Richie Rich, you want to flaunt your wealth with your hybrid, you can ante up. |
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Jan 10, 2013 13:37:13 GMT -5
"Prius drivers are smug pricks?" All the reason I need. As for you, TC, Porsche, BMW, Lexus and Hummer do make expensive cars. They also each make hybrids and, while I have not researched this, I can guarantee they are all more expensive than their non-hybrid equivalent. So, yeah, Richie Rich, you want to flaunt your wealth with your hybrid, you can ante up. Poe's Law in full effect. |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 10, 2013 14:28:29 GMT -5
Poe's Law in full effect. Really? I kind of thought I was being pretty obvious. |
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Jan 10, 2013 16:00:08 GMT -5
Poe's Law in full effect. Really? I kind of thought I was being pretty obvious. Sincere apologies. |
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 10, 2013 16:52:14 GMT -5
As a general rule, if something bothers Maryland, I'm for it.
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